Real Life Tier List.

[kivatt]

Doomsday breathed fire on an old version of MMH. New MMH's relationship to fire is very different even from the psychological weakness the old version had. Like I said, it's basically PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder), meaning it's sort of like a phobia. But he's been in several scenarios where he's had to deal with heat/fire/etc. and had no problems recently. For example, when he was flying at high speed back into earth's atmosphere and there was heat/fire all around him due to the friction of re-entry and he just ignored it. The times it has affected him, it's sort of stunned him and then he's been fine moments later.

As for psychic stuff, Superman's mental defenses are not what they used to be, while MMH's telepathy is way more powerful than ever. He's gone up against a bunch of people with mental defenses that they thought would protect them and he's just laughed at them. He's mind-raped so many uber-powerful entities that previous MMH couldn't have (Despero, for example, who he beat in a single page).

Also, how would freeze breath and heat vision beat phasing? MMH phases through energy attacks all the time, and has even done it against Superman.

As for strength, it's pretty up in the air. Superman is obviously stronger than he used to be, but we have yet to see an upper limit to new MMH's strength. He has yet to be physically beaten by anyone, or failed to lift anything. He did face Apollo--a guy that in-universe sources put on par with Superman. Apollo got pissed and tried to punch MMH's teammate. MMH stepped in the way and let Apollo hit him square in the face, and it knocked APOLLO on his ass while MMH just stood there.

Oh and there's this, which is from the old universe, where MMH wasn't as powerful as he is now:

This is what I meant by using his Freeze breath.
He did this against Ghost Solider who was becoming intangible when he was fighting him.

 

[kivatt]

No flash can move FTL while superman on earth can't and it states that superman is running at 2000 miles a a second, that isn't FTL


I'm done

Yes Superman can. Why would he move that fast when he knows it would harm people? The Speed Force allow the Speedsters to move as fast a they want to ignoring physics while it isn't the same for Superman. So he has to actually worry about how fast he can go unlike speedsters. Does that not make sense to you? And do you even know what's happening in this scan? Flash is running away from Superman, and Superman is just chasing him down, keeping up with him, while he's trying to talk to him. He can easily go faster than that.

Seriously, what is hard to understand in that?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

preptime Batman loses to The Flash always.

 

[Rickyraws]

Martian Manhunter is easily the strongest character both in game and in comics. He essentially has all of Superman's powers on the same level, plus intangibility, telekinesis, and most OP of all, telepathy. He can beat basically the entire cast by just turning their brains off. If you have any doubts, read the JLA arc "Trial by Fire". Then you will learn.
Lobo is also at Superman strength level and due to goofy as comic canon can't die because he is banned from all forms of afterlife for "causing too much of a ruckus". Superman generally has to beat him by convincing him to leave rather than actually besting him.
Flash is also too low. People that think he is just about speed are mistaken. He is basically untouchable due to superior reaction times and there is a shitload that can be done with the speed force, and has been shown to be immune to telepathy at times by outthinking it both in terms of speed and intelligence.
Doomsday is a chump. The only reason he killed Superman is because no one else strong was around at the time and Superman is a panzy and didn't want to kill him.
Killer Frost is way to high. Go ahead, make your memes with her face cropped in. She is a C-list shitter than is only in this game because they wanted to meat a girl qutoa.

Ouch.

Does Batgirl handicapped form mean that Barbara Gordon fights in her wheelchair?

That's EXACTLY what it means.

No way is cyborg lower than Batman

Clash quote:
Batman: I can hurt you.
Cyborg: For the record: you're scary.

Irrefutable evidence.

I use to feel that way until they showed why superman would win, to be fair if they destroy the planet Goku is fucked. Honest to god when people use to ask me about it Id say "Goku wrecks superman without thought..." then I saw the death battle and fabricated numbers aside, the fact that superman can literally hold a black hole in his hand, and survive a supernova explosion to the face....yea pretty sure Goku cant tank 15 suns in the face. then there is the face that the infinite mass punch is as strong as a black hole.....supes is broke.

I know I know. I just don't want to accept it. The main thing that rubbed me the wrong way was their depiction of Goku's severed leg after the battle. Broke my heart.

 

[AlanC]

I use to feel that way until they showed why superman would win, to be fair if they destroy the planet Goku is fucked.

They stated the animated fight was for pure entertainment and not how the fight would actually go

Yes Superman can. Why would he move that fast when he knows it would harm people? The Speed Force allow the Speedsters to move as fast a they want to ignoring physics while it isn't the same for Superman. So he has to actually worry about how fast he can go unlike speedsters. Does that not make sense to you? And do you even know what's happening in this scan? Flash is running away from Superman, and Superman is just chasing him down, keeping up with him, while he's trying to talk to him. He can easily go faster than that.

Seriously, what is hard to understand in that?

 

[kivatt]

They stated the animated fight was for pure entertainment and not how the fight would actually go

Flash tapped into the Speed Force for that. I never said he was Faster than the Flash, I said he can keep up with him, and I even acknowledged Flash's were faster tp MidTierHarley.

That does not disprove that he can't run ftl on Earth.


and never ever use a scan from Flash:Rebirth, that was a terrible comics written by John's fanboyism over Barry Allen.

 

[AlanC]

Flash tapped into the Speed Force for that. I never said he was Faster than the Flash, I said he can keep up with him, and I even acknowledged Flash's were faster tp MidTierHarley.

Then why are we arguing

That does not disprove that he can't run ftl on Earth.

Has he done it before?

and never ever use a scan from Flash:Rebirth, that was a terrible comics written by John's fanboyism over Barry Allen.

Lmaoooo

 

[kivatt]

Then why are we arguing



Has he done it before?



Lmaoooo

For fucks sake I guess??

He hasn't. I'd assume he knows the risks of going that fast. Since he always puts limits on himself


Flash Rebirth was terrible. I hated it with a passion. All of it was basically Barry dick sucking. Like damn Wally did more than he'd ever do, had better feats, been through more struggle, had a better personality, had to clean up Barry's mistakes when he thought it was a good idea to go around brain-washing people. But no, Barry comes back and he's the only true Flash. Just because he died fighting the Anti-Monitor, and destroying his Anti-Matter cannon. Like hell hop of his boring ass dick.

I hate his silverage fanboyism, as well as him, and DC with a passion.


Sorry about that rant, DC has gotten me pissed for over a month.

 

[AlanC]

He hasn't. I'd assume he knows the risks of going that fast. Since he always puts limits on himself

Thats the problem i'm having believing he can got ftl on earth, you just assume he can without any actual proof. It's like believing the dbz fans when they say cell can destroy a solar system with his kamehameha wave but not show cell doing so they just assume he can because of the attack name and because he said it but not done it.

 

[kivatt]

Thats the problem i'm having believing he can got ftl on earth, you just assume he can without any actual proof. It's like believing the dbz fans when they say cell can destroy a solar system with his kamehameha wave but not show cell doing so they just assume he can because of the attack name and because he said it but not done it.

I can respect that.

So you calling Cell a liar?

 

[AlanC]

I can respect that.

So you calling Cell a liar?

Yes he never destroyed a solar system as far as i know and i'm pretty sure he was at full power or at least gave all he had left when he was in that beam battle with gohan and that didn't show much.

 

[MidTierHarley]

Actually no. I actually read comics, and Superman would lose to the Flash. Flash is faster, has the capability to punch harder, steal his kinetic energy, and can phase though his attack by moving his molecules (although Superman can over come it). Same with Superboy -Prime who is terrified of Speedsters, since the Flash trapped him in the Speed Force. Zoom is a different story. He exists entirely on a different timeline that everyone else. Neither Superman nor Superboy-Prime is touching him. It took Wally absoring the speed force from Jay, Bart and Jessie in order to get almost as fast as Zoom. What hope does Superman have? Especially when Zoom went against the whole Justice League and toyed with him before leaving.

sigh...i can name close to 80 characters that would godstomp Zoom...

 

[kivatt]

Yes he never destroyed a solar system as far as i know and i'm pretty sure he was at full power or at least gave all he had left when he was in that beam battle with gohan and that didn't show much.

Cell was an upstanding Citizen.

Yeah most of DBZ was ridiculous. Most feats are speculations.

 

[kivatt]

sigh...i can name close to 80 characters that would godstomp Zoom...

Please name them then. Without name omnipotent characters.

 

[MidTierHarley]

Please name them then. Without name omnipotent characters.

That makes no sense. There is only one omnipotent character which is still debatable so why even say that?

 

[kivatt]

That makes no sense. There is only one omnipotent character which is still debatable so why even say that?

The presence, lucifer morning star, Michael, the spectre. Because you know those are toss ups and too easy. But I'm still waiting on the list though.

 

[MidTierHarley]

The presence, lucifer morning star, Michael, the spectre. Because you know those are toss ups and too easy. But I'm still waiting on the list though.

But they arent omnipotent even The Presnce's omnipotence is hotly debated. Im sorry im not going to list 80 characters thats just a waste of time...

 

[kivatt]

But they arent omnipotent even The Presnce's omnipotence is hotly debated. Im sorry im not going to list 80 characters thats just a waste of time...

So basically you can't list 80 characters. That's what I'm getting.

 

[MidTierHarley]

So basically you can't list 80 characters. That's what I'm getting.

Well 80 mayyyy have been a bit of an overstatement but im just using it to show how ridicuolous people hype speedsters espescially Zoom up.

 

[kivatt]

Well 80 mayyyy have been a bit of an overstatement but im just using it to show how ridicuolous people hype speedsters espescially Zoom up.

They're hyped up because of how ridiculously broken/stupid their powers are.

 

[MidTierHarley]

They're hyped up because of how ridiculously broken/stupid their powers are.

yes, but theyre not unbeatable i have seen people put them up against guy like COIE AM, Mxy and Spectre who would utterly rape them. I mean they're reallly strong but not that strong

 

[kivatt]

yes, but theyre not unbeatable i have seen people put them up against guy like COIE AM, Mxy and Spectre who would utterly rape them. I mean they're reallly strong but not that strong

I don't anyone said they're unbeatable. They're just really hard to beat.

Kingdom Come Flash sonned The Spectre though.

Zoom is just ridiculous for no reason though. Too bad he suffered from Johns silver age fanboyism.

 

[shoshinsha]

Yeah but Doomsday is still a plot induced piece of shit character. I feel like he could still use fire against MMH. and MMH weakness to fire Pre-52 wasn't a physical thing it was only a mental thing, because if he overcame his fear of it, he would turn into the Burning.

Superman has went against some strong Psychics, like Queen Bee, Hector Hammond, and I believe Psycho Pirate. So his mental defenses are pretty strong.

His heat vision and freeze breath was able to beat Ghost Soldier who was able to phase like Martian Man Hunter.

This Superman isn't stronger than Pre-52 Superman. He's still strong, but not as much as Pre-52 version. All of them have been nerfed a lot.

Just a couple of points:

First, you're talking about Superman fighting characters that are wayyyyy below MMH's level. He's THE premier telepath in DC now--head and shoulders above the rest. If he can solo Despero in a psychic battle in one page, then there's no point in comparing him to Queen Bee. Same goes for his phasing, which is a unique version of the power. MMH's phasing is about controlling every atom of his body, and he can phase across different vibratory wavelengths, even messing with/countering other people's phasing abilities. He's phased through Superman's heat vision many times, and even phased through magical attacks that don't obey the laws of physics, such as Black Adam's lightning.

As for this whole "Doomsday can beat everyone because he'll always resurrect" argument that a couple of folks have tossed around:
That just doesn't fly. First of all, outliving your opponent isn't how a fight is won. Nobody watches a boxing match thinking "whichever of these dudes dies first in the next 60-70 years is the winner." A fight is a discrete occasion with a beginning and an end. Second, there are tons of ways to beat DD without killing him, and he's been beaten many times.

 

[kivatt]

Just a couple of points:

First, you're talking about Superman fighting characters that are wayyyyy below MMH's level. He's THE premier telepath in DC now--head and shoulders above the rest. If he can solo Despero in a psychic battle in one page, then there's no point in comparing him to Queen Bee. Same goes for his phasing, which is a unique version of the power. MMH's phasing is about controlling every atom of his body, and he can phase across different vibratory wavelengths, even messing with/countering other people's phasing abilities. He's phased through Superman's heat vision many times, and even phased through magical attacks that don't obey the laws of physics, such as Black Adam's lightning.

As for this whole "Doomsday can beat everyone because he'll always resurrect" argument that a couple of folks have tossed around:
That just doesn't fly. First of all, outliving your opponent isn't how a fight is won. Nobody watches a boxing match thinking "whichever of these dudes dies first in the next 60-70 years is the winner." A fight is a discrete occasion with a beginning and an end. Second, there are tons of ways to beat DD without killing him, and he's been beaten many times.

MMH hasn't shown any feats besides soloing Despero when he showed up. Despero looked like fodder cannon, who didn't show any strong feats either. He basically attacked when the Justice League hard new recruits and a glimpse of him fighting the justice league in the past before Superman got his mental blocks from Orion.

Hector Hammond was shown to taking over a lot of people in Metropolis. A higher feat that what MMH showed. You can't say MMH is stronger when there haven't been any strong feats from him so far. Same with Despero.

Superman figured out that Ghost Soldier turning intangible was his molecules moving at a high speed, so he slowed them down with his freeze breath. What's saying Superman can't do the same with Martian?

In a fight against Super heroes and Villains that's how a lot of them are won, especially when you do not have the means to stop them, and you need to beat them right then and there especially before they kill more people.

 

[MidTierHarley]

I don't anyone said they're unbeatable. They're just really hard to beat.

Kingdom Come Flash sonned The Spectre though.

Zoom is just ridiculous for no reason though. Too bad he suffered from Johns silver age fanboyism.

I have literally seen threads pitting Zoom against Mxy lol