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EnergyKD

EnergyKD

AKA KHAOTIC Zeus
Eldriken said:
Doomsday would be number one after him and Superman meet the first time. He wouldn't be able to beat/kill him a second time unless he utilizes something different like he continued to do in the comics and such.

So, to put it simply, Doomsday would inevitably be number one after a certain amount of time.
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Until then stay number 2 Kappa
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Kyle Rayner said:
Personally I think superman is actually in a tier of his own, and flash is below him simply due to the fact that he also cannot survive in space (at least not to my knowledge) and would be instantly killed should the planet explode, and also depending on what version of superman you are looking at becasue there are continuities where he could blow away whole universes by sneezing and make up powers on the fly.
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Superman's a character that changes a lot based on the writing. Basically, if he needs to lose, his abilities are downplayed, if he needs to win, there's nothing he can't do. But assuming this is an actual "fight" the idea that he would simply fly into outer space would be a disqualification. Even if you say he would use eye lasers or breath from afar, you would have to entertain the possibility that Flash could avoid it or MMH could simply convince him not to.

I also would say superman is WW's male superior due to the fact that his powers do significantly out match her own, however with superman's vulnerability to magic and her knowledge of his own weakness to Krytonite this may cause problems for him. Also while superman does tire as does WW. Also considering the fact that superman has the power of the sun making his own power virtually limitless.
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Here's the thing about Superman. We always say Superman goes down to Kryptonite, and nowadays it can be magic or even just somebody punching him a lot while in the shade. Nobody ever says what will take WW down. Its not even clearly stated if "demi-goddess" means immortal or not (though it is pretty heavily implied she could die). So, that in and of itself gives her an edge. Again, you could give Superman the "fly around the world, freeze her in a block of ice and shoot her with lasers" play but that establishes unspoken rules about the fight. If you give Superman the benefit of sniping and prep time, you have to give it to characters like Doomsday, Batman, Stroke, Zatanna, Grundy, and even Green Arrow who could potentially put together a end game strategy for Supes, WW or even MMH.

I'm not very knowledgeable about the limits of MMH's powers, but I'm almost certain that Superman is fast and physically stronger than MMH, with the added ability that he has a intense series of mental blocks that protect him from mental assaults.
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Superman is faster / stronger, but MMH can vanish completely and phase through anything. He can also attack the mind, which is a well documented Superman weakness (the batman clause). The only way Superman beats MMH is during a forest fire or volcanic eruption. Of course that assumes we are dealing with an unhinged MMH who is actually willing to mentally assault an opponent, which he usually isn't, but then you also have to take into account the Superman "this ends now" clause which basically says if superman says this ends now he wins the fight.
 
S

shoshinsha

Apprentice
kivatt said:
MMH hasn't shown any feats besides soloing Despero when he showed up. Despero looked like fodder cannon, who didn't show any strong feats either. He basically attacked when the Justice League hard new recruits and a glimpse of him fighting the justice league in the past before Superman got his mental blocks from Orion.

Hector Hammond was shown to taking over a lot of people in Metropolis. A higher feat that what MMH showed. You can't say MMH is stronger when there haven't been any strong feats from him so far. Same with Despero.

Superman figured out that Ghost Soldier turning intangible was his molecules moving at a high speed, so he slowed them down with his freeze breath. What's saying Superman can't do the same with Martian?

In a fight against Super heroes and Villains that's how a lot of them are won, especially when you do not have the means to stop them, and you need to beat them right then and there especially before they kill more people.
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MMH has shown a LOT of feats in New 52. You can see a considerable handful of them just by googling "New 52 Martian Manhunter Respect Thread." I think maybe you've missed some of the issues he appears in if you think otherwise.

As for Hammond's showing, MMH has been shown as a global-level and even trans-planetary telepath in New 52. And his phasing is definitely superior to Ghost Soldier. He mentally controls the dimensional wavelength on which his molecules vibrate, so he can modulate his phasing to counter other phasers. Again, comparing MMH to a C-lister like the Ghost Soldier is like saying that both Superman and Killer Frost can freeze things, so they have the same power level. Same goes for strength. MMH has fought several top-tier powerhouses--including Superman--and had NO problem with competing in brute strength.

Of course that assumes we are dealing with an unhinged MMH who is actually willing to mentally assault an opponent, which he usually isn't
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Not true anymore. New 52 MMH mindfucks people left and right. He's completely erased knowledge of his existence from whole teams that had previously been his allies. He makes people do all kinds of stuff they don't want to and reads/alters minds without consent. Read the New 52 Stormwatch and the New 52 JLA for many examples.
 
Art

Art

Grave_Intent
@OP if this is a comic book tier list then Ares would be #1 if you read comics. In the Injustice comic it took Superman, Wounder Woman and a few others to take him down, and even then Superman asked, "Can this even kill a god?" and WW replied, "No, but I'm sure it stings a little."
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Art said:
@OP if this is a comic book tier list then Ares would be #1 if you read comics. In the Injustice comic it took Superman, Wounder Woman and a few others to take him down, and even then Superman asked, "Can this even kill a god?" and WW replied, "No, but I'm sure it stings a little."
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Ares being a god means he's immortal, but that doesn't mean he can't be defeated nor does it mean his powers are limitless. Comics are literred with examples of immortal characters taking l's or being forced into submission and its well documented that in the absence of war / conflict on earth his his powers are lessened.

Either way, if "can't die" makes you top tier, Ares is no stronger than Grundy, Doomsday, and Lobo who also can't die.
 
dotunderscore

dotunderscore

._
shoshinsha said:
First of all, outliving your opponent isn't how a fight is won. Nobody watches a boxing match thinking "whichever of these dudes dies first in the next 60-70 years is the winner." A fight is a discrete occasion with a beginning and an end.
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There are Sub-Zero mirrors that refute this
 
Zyphox

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
soooo many superman downplayers in this thread. if superman wanted to he could move near the speed of light and hit you with infinite mass punch and probably take out a portion of our solar system with it, (earth moon definitely) superman punches at such a low % of his capable power so he doesn't destroy earth. now new 52 supes is probably under powered to make it fair lol also this is why flash is top tier
 
Art

Art

Grave_Intent
trufenix said:
Ares being a god means he's immortal, but that doesn't mean he can't be defeated nor does it mean his powers are limitless. Comics are literred with examples of immortal characters taking l's or being forced into submission and its well documented that in the absence of war / conflict on earth his his powers are lessened.

Either way, if "can't die" makes you top tier, Ares is no stronger than Grundy, Doomsday, and Lobo who also can't die.
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Agreed, but I was just using the fact it took so many others to take him down not weather or not he can die, as an example.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Actual list would look something like...

1) Ares
2) Flash
3) Lobo
4-7) Kryptonians
8) WW
9) MMH
10) Sinestro
11) GL
12) Black Adam
13) Aquaman
14) Shazam
15) Zatanna
16) Raven
17)Hawkgirl
18) Grundy
19) Lex (suit)
20) Cyborg
21) Killer Frost
22) Bane
23) Batman
24) Deathstroke
25) Green Arrow
26) Nightwing
27) Batgirl (not cripple)
28) Joker
29) Catwoman
30) Harley Quinn
31) Lex (human)
32) Billy Batson
33) Batgirl (cripple)
 
Chokeapotamus

Chokeapotamus

Worst. Player. Ever.
EnergyKD said:
Not really strength DC > Marvel
Only Thor and few others can match strength
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This is an apples and oranges comparison. The two comic universes are on totally different levels. Any literature that you can track down show that the DC universe is scaled way up from Marvel 616. I grew up reading The (original) Official Guide to the Marvel Universe (feeling very old right now) and playing the rpgs that were based off of that information. Typical, non-cosmic Marvel heavyweights (Hulk, Thor, Abomination) topped out at the ability to press 100 tons (with some exceptions--angry Hulk could approximately double that) with other heavy hitters capping around 75 tons (Colossus, Thing, She-Hulk). These numbers are still pretty standard if you look on Marvel's database of characters on their site. From what I have seen of DC info, you're dealing with characters capable of pressing hundred of thousands of tons (200,000+ tons). Even middle of the road DC guys routinely lift like the Hulk.
Again, this is going by literature put out either by the companies themselves or through licensed gaming material. But either way, storylines have dictated what these characters are capable of and routinely exceeding any documented power levels or abilities. It's just that DC has skewed toward plots regularly involving universe-ending threats while Marvel has kind of been geared at a city-to-planetary level of threat (for the most part).
I've always been a Marvel fanboy at heart (don't hate DC by any means and love a bunch of their characters--just started early with Marvel and they took hold) but freely admit that based on all of the actual published material, DC would absolutely annihilate Marvel in any conflict based on sheer strength. Powers and craftiness (aka, the Batman rule) can even the playing field but the odds are definitely in DC's favor.

As for this overall tier list, it could never come close to being resolved (as fun as it is to discuss/debate) since it all depends on who is writing the storyline at any given point. Some writers just love to routinely break continuity and give new powers or ramp up strength at the drop of a hat. I think the closest you can attempt to get is to break it down the way all of the other tier lists go and lump characters together (broken, S++, S+, S, A, B, C, garbage) although you could almost go by "god-level", "heavy hitter", and "merely human" to cover most of the bases.
 
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