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Is MMH, in his current form, fair?

Is MMH, in his current form, fair?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 39.8%
  • No

    Votes: 65 60.2%

  • Total voters
    108

MaceWind

Crazy 88
These threads need to stop. I'm sorry you're character gets dookied on by him, pick one that doesn't and move on instead of complaining.

Name a character that one can pick that doesn't get "dookied" by him. Perhaps these threads are a cry for help. Perhaps the greater population understands that MMH is broken yet develop passive-aggressive threads because they don't want to be labeled a scrub and crucified of their beliefs. Only a few are bold enough to stand up against him. They are considered radicals and scourges on the overall community. They get threads dedicated to them on how lame and scrubby they are. Meanwhile they are only trying to illustrate we do have another Kabal amongst us; his name is Martian Manhunter.
 

Dirtylova

YOLO FLYING GRAYSON BICH
Yes...

main, nightd1ck..

Mmh, online he may and can be a pain in certain connects but, i dont mind him at all...

Problems.. Zod destroys 95 percent of the cast.. Sinestro can zone/lame out 95 percent of the cast/ batgirl *look at recent events*/

Future problems that some of you are to foolish to either accept, or just flat out ignorant as fuck.. Raven, Sexy lexy... I wanna put ww in this future threat tier but, i think she's already a threat. If you guys don't believe it, play foxy..

@Blind_Man @Revolver
 
Reactions: RIF

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
Name a character that one can pick that doesn't get "dookied" by him. Perhaps these threads are a cry for help. Perhaps the greater population understands that MMH is broken yet develop passive-aggressive threads because they don't want to be labeled a scrub and crucified of their beliefs. Only a few are bold enough to stand up against him. They are considered radicals and scourges on the overall community. They get threads dedicated to them on how lame and scrubby they are. Meanwhile they are only trying to illustrate we do have another Kabal amongst us; his name is Martian Manhunter.
There's always going to be a "best character". Doesn't mean that the character has to beat 95% of the roster and "work less" than 95% of characters they beat or go even with while doing it.

What Martians are you losing to?

Lex, NW, DD, Bane, Shazam, WoWo, Raven, Superman, Batgirl, Batman, Aquaman, Flash, Catwoman, Deathstoke could all be 5-5.




Now pick one.
 
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RIF

Apprentice
Name a character that one can pick that doesn't get "dookied" by him. Perhaps these threads are a cry for help. Perhaps the greater population understands that MMH is broken yet develop passive-aggressive threads because they don't want to be labeled a scrub and crucified of their beliefs. Only a few are bold enough to stand up against him. They are considered radicals and scourges on the overall community. They get threads dedicated to them on how lame and scrubby they are. Meanwhile they are only trying to illustrate we do have another Kabal amongst us; his name is Martian Manhunter.
This thread is not about complaints. It's about getting a general consensus of the community. The poll is fairly close. If this many people feel that they can be competitive against MMH with their character, then, perhaps the calls for adjustments should cease.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to post.
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
Ok I'm going to bend the rules just a bit. So forgive me, but I intend to speak my mind. I voted yes. I'll list my characters first and then explain why I voted yes.

Mains: Zatanna and Nightwing
Vs Martian: Mostly Nightwing, but sometimes I will play Zatanna just to prove a point (a supposed 6-4)

Why I voted yes:

The character isn't BROKEN. A broken character is defined as a character who breaks the meta of the game by performing abilities that totally defeat the entirety of the cast. Kabal is broken, why you may ask? Do I even have to say? He has an ANSWER TO EEEEVVVERRRYTHING and defeats EVERYONE with NO even match ups. That is broken and EVEN STILL, he could be beaten. I believe the general consensus will define "fair" as "an equal ability for each character to have a chance at winning", if this is the case.. no character in any game is fair. Mostly EVERY character in EVERY game has good match ups and bad match ups. Some characters more than others, but thats just how video games are, especially fighting games.

Everyone wants Injustice to be this godsend of balance and fairness, where every character is viable in their own right and there isn't a dominant character ruling EVERYTHING. If this was the case, we have that game. EVERY character is viable in their own sense, it just happens we have a character who is better than most. This is a staple in fighting games. There are low tier characters people can play so they can try their asses off to be "different", you have a majority of mid tier characters that are all decent at doing their job and are mostly the bulk of every fighting game. And then you have the top tier characters who normally dominate a game and set a standard for other characters to defeat. If we dont have this, if we don't have "tiers" we dont have balance. If every character is just fucking amazing.. where is the balance? Its a hard concept to grasp, but hopefully someone will understand.


Anyway, thats why I voted yes, because if there isn't one character everyone has to fight to defeat, we don't have balance, simple as that.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Name a character that one can pick that doesn't get "dookied" by him. Perhaps these threads are a cry for help. Perhaps the greater population understands that MMH is broken yet develop passive-aggressive threads because they don't want to be labeled a scrub and crucified of their beliefs. Only a few are bold enough to stand up against him. They are considered radicals and scourges on the overall community. They get threads dedicated to them on how lame and scrubby they are. Meanwhile they are only trying to illustrate we do have another Kabal amongst us; his name is Martian Manhunter.
Lex
NW
Aquamang
Bane
Batman
Catwoman
Doomsday
Flash
Superman

Those are the characters that supposedly go 5-5. That doesnt even include the characters that go 4-6, which is hardly getting "dookied". The only characters he completely shits on are Cyborg, Ares, GA, HG, Joker, and Zatanna. He probably has less 7-3 Mus than 5-5s, so no, he is no where near Kabals level. Note: This could change as time goes on, but he could either become worse or better. You would of never looked at CD Jrs Jax and said Jax would end up being mid tier.

Also, people who make complaint threads are not "radicals" especially when a bunch of people have done the exact same thing. If anything, the ones who think MMH is balanced are the "radicals"
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
What Martians are you losing to?

Lex, NW, DD, Bane, WoWo, Raven, Superman, Batgirl, Batman, Aquaman, Flash, Catwoman, Deathstoke could all be 5-5.




Now pick one.
The majority of characters you listed i either do not believe are 5-5 or won't be considered 5-5 a few months from now. But that is opinion and hypothetical and you seem intelligent enough so i'll address what i do know well. With that being said.

I main Raven, and I hear people say "5-5", but no way it is or will stay that way. Lets look at it.

-Zoning is out of the question unless you want to get outzoned and countered for 40%. Raven's main strength is neutralized in this MU.

-Rush down with Raven's normals against MMH normals and trait? Laughable.

-Don't have the life lead? Comeback factor is all but non-existent in this MU.

-Lose the stage selection and end up on an interactable heavy stage against MMH??? Add an entire point disadvantage.

Seriously, since you apparently think MMH is so "fair", and this MU is consistently thrown around as a 5-5 by Team MMH, what am I missing here? Specifically speaking on Raven, where are her "advantages" that equal out the MU to a 5-5??

I never complained about prepatch anyone, DS, Supes, BA. I don't complain about Zod, Aquaman, none of them. But THIS man is worse. I have to object because these "MU numbers" will only slide more in his favor as time goes on, not away. 6 months from now I'd bet money he'll have three 5-5's and all else winning MUs.

As far as Raven again, you have to work twice as hard in this MU at many disadvantages to win your match. Imo this is a very uphill 4-6, and losing the stage select makes it 3-7. What makes this 5-5? What makes this 5-5 on interactable heavy stages?
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
This may be surprising, but as a Joker main, I will say yes.

My reasoning according to the rules in the OP:

- The character has strengths that fit within the confines of the game.
-His normals suck without trait, but are godlike with it. Sounds like a decent trade off, even if the trait timer is a bit short.

-Teleports are really good, but punishable in a variety of ways. That said, it's hard to pull off in a real match against a high level player. That said, hard and impossible are not the same thing. It might be a bit strong, but there is still a decent risk/reward, especially for my character, considering I get 40% and put him in a really bad position if I punish it.

-Zoning is very strong, but it does not stop you from moving. There are holes; small ones but they are there.

-Orbs are the only thing I might consider a problem.
White orbs are punishable off of most strings and while good, they hit mid, preventing MMH from getting stupid unblockable setups that Joker and Lex can get. They are + a billion, like teeth, and can start combos.
MB orbs are a tool unlike any other in the game though. They are essentially proximity mines that come out ridiculously fast, put you in as much blockstun as teeth (Enough to do a 50/50 or set things up) and last long enough to give great screen control. Red orbs are the single best trap move in the game, which is weird since MMH isn't specifically a trap character.
That said red orbs cost a bar, so there's that.
Also unlike Lex and Joker, his moveset doesn't really seem like it was designed to complement the orbs. They don't hurt, but they don't seem to work with his normals nearly as well as Joker's moveset compliments teeth. In fact it kind of feels like phase assault was the only move that was made for orb setups.

-His wakeups are decent. He has invincible wakeups, which more than characters like Raven and Zod can say, but he can still be bullied on knockdown.

-*Most* of his moves are single hits, meaning armor can hurt him quite a bit. That said, having a multi-hitting B3 is dumb.





- The character has weakness that can be exploited by YOUR character.
-Joker's gun is fast enough to hit in between zoning, and can be dash canceled to punish a teleport (But you better guess right on this. I used to think it was dashable on reaction, but that's only if the MMH is being predictable).
-More importantly than that, Joker can bully MMH on knockdown. He can punish orb cancels (Unless it's red orb) while moving himself out of the explosion range. When trait is down Joker out-footsies him. When trait is up though, that's a different story.
-I can punish the (Admittedly few) gaps in his strings.

- The character doesn't invalidate the strengths of the YOUR character.
-He has to respect teeth and all of my frametraps like anyone else.
-Corner = death.
-My mids and overheads don't whiff on him, meaning all of my pressure and traps can be used against him.
-While I have to be a bit more careful about it, I can still molest him on knockdown.
-I can combo into interactibles just as well as he can (Stage dependent).

- When played at the highest possible level, YOUR character can defeat MMH 40-60% of the time. (5-5, 4-6, or 6-4 MU)
I am constantly told that unless I play Jupiter, I can't talk*. Since I haven't, I guess I just don't know.

That said I do play against several MMH players offline, ranging from decent to good, and as such I have a good idea of his tools and what he can do, even if they are not Jupiter calibur players. I do know what my options against him are, and I know what he can do to me from different places on the screen.
If I were allowed to base an opinion based on playing multiple MMH players regularly offline, watching tournament footage and hitting the lab, I would think the MU is 6-4 for Martian at worst.




*Which BTW, it speaks volumes if you HAVE to play Jupiter to understand why MMH is broken. I didn't NEED to play M2K to know why Metaknight was broken in Smash... Nobody needed to play Flocker to know why Dark Pheonix was broken in Marvel, or play any of the top Marvel players to know why Vergil was stupid. These characters were so dumb that even if a player didn't have the best reads, the best reactions, the best spacing, etc., they could still make the character look broken as long as they weren't complete trash at the game.

I have seen we have trouble admitting when we're being outplayed in this community, but maybe Jupiter really is that good?

_____________


I also want to throw out that I played other fighting games before this one. MMH is nowhere near Dark Pheonix levels of stupid, who herself was nowhere near as dumb as Vergil. Neither of these characters were even in the same realm of stupid as Metaknight (And I was fighting that character with Mario and Kirby!). Thankfully I never had to personally deal with Viola's stupid shit in SCV, but she seemed considerably worse than MMH too.

Every game will have a top character. This game's is MMH. All things considered, for a #1 character in a fighting game, he's not that bad.



__________


Now to see how long it takes for people to blow me up for this...
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
The majority of characters you listed i either do not believe are 5-5 or won't be considered 5-5 a few months from now. But that is opinion and hypothetical and you seem intelligent enough so i'll address what i do know well. With that being said.

I main Raven, and I hear people say "5-5", but no way it is or will stay that way. Lets look at it.

-Zoning is out of the question unless you want to get outzoned and countered for 40%. Raven's main strength is neutralized in this MU.

-Rush down with Raven's normals against MMH normals and trait? Laughable.

-Don't have the life lead? Comeback factor is all but non-existent in this MU.

-Lose the stage selection and end up on an interactable heavy stage against MMH??? Add an entire point disadvantage.

Seriously, since you apparently think MMH is so "fair", and this MU is consistently thrown around as a 5-5 by Team MMH, what am I missing here? Specifically speaking on Raven, where are her "advantages" that equal out the MU to a 5-5??

I never complained about prepatch anyone, DS, Supes, BA. I don't complain about Zod, Aquaman, none of them. But THIS man is worse. I have to object because these "MU numbers" will only slide more in his favor as time goes on, not away. 6 months from now I'd bet money he'll have three 5-5's and all else winning MUs.

As far as Raven again, you have to work twice as hard in this MU at many disadvantages to win your match. Imo this is a very uphill 4-6, and losing the stage select makes it 3-7. What makes this 5-5? What makes this 5-5 on interactable heavy stages?
I'm not going to pretend to know this MU on a deep level, there's not many Ravens to play. But I remember Jupiter saying this MU is a 5-5.
@AK Dream Sword @EMPEROR_JUPITER

Not buying the outzoning thing. Raven can punish MMH pillar and his telekinetic strike you can empty void all day. Martian takes a risk teleporting in.

Martian's normals aren't great outside of trait. Block for 5 secs.

Why's that? Raven gets about as much damage as Martian for 1 bar.

I agree, it's in his favor depending on the stage.

Seems like the people who's character get dookied on are always there to talk about how fair he is. Well is it fair that NW can't touch HawkGirl? Can I make a bunch of threads about that MU too? Or should I just move on and pick another character?
 
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roosTakk

Chode Juggler
This may be surprising, but as a Joker main, I will say yes.

My reasoning according to the rules in the OP:



-His normals suck without trait, but are godlike with it. Sounds like a decent trade off, even if the trait timer is a bit short.

-Teleports are really good, but punishable in a variety of ways. That said, it's hard to pull off in a real match against a high level player. That said, hard and impossible are not the same thing. It might be a bit strong, but there is still a decent risk/reward, especially for my character, considering I get 40% and put him in a really bad position if I punish it.

-Zoning is very strong, but it does not stop you from moving. There are holes; small ones but they are there.

-Orbs are the only thing I might consider a problem.
White orbs are punishable off of most strings and while good, they hit mid, preventing MMH from getting stupid unblockable setups that Joker and Lex can get. They are + a billion, like teeth, and can start combos.
MB orbs are a tool unlike any other in the game though. They are essentially proximity mines that come out ridiculously fast, put you in as much blockstun as teeth (Enough to do a 50/50 or set things up) and last long enough to give great screen control. Red orbs are the single best trap move in the game, which is weird since MMH isn't specifically a trap character.
That said red orbs cost a bar, so there's that.
Also unlike Lex and Joker, his moveset doesn't really seem like it was designed to complement the orbs. They don't hurt, but they don't seem to work with his normals nearly as well as Joker's moveset compliments teeth. In fact it kind of feels like phase assault was the only move that was made for orb setups.

-His wakeups are decent. He has invincible wakeups, which more than characters like Raven and Zod can say, but he can still be bullied on knockdown.

-*Most* of his moves are single hits, meaning armor can hurt him quite a bit. That said, having a multi-hitting B3 is dumb.







-Joker's gun is fast enough to hit in between zoning, and can be dash canceled to punish a teleport (But you better guess right on this. I used to think it was dashable on reaction, but that's only if the MMH is being predictable).
-More importantly than that, Joker can bully MMH on knockdown. He can punish orb cancels (Unless it's red orb) while moving himself out of the explosion range. When trait is down Joker out-footsies him. When trait is up though, that's a different story.
-I can punish the (Admittedly few) gaps in his strings.



-He has to respect teeth and all of my frametraps like anyone else.
-Corner = death.
-My mids and overheads don't whiff on him, meaning all of my pressure and traps can be used against him.
-While I have to be a bit more careful about it, I can still molest him on knockdown.
-I can combo into interactibles just as well as he can (Stage dependent).



I am constantly told that unless I play Jupiter, I can't talk*. Since I haven't, I guess I just don't know.

That said I do play against several MMH players offline, ranging from decent to good, and as such I have a good idea of his tools and what he can do, even if they are not Jupiter calibur players. I do know what my options against him are, and I know what he can do to me from different places on the screen.
If I were allowed to base an opinion based on playing multiple MMH players regularly offline, watching tournament footage and hitting the lab, I would think the MU is 6-4 for Martian at worst.




*Which BTW, it speaks volumes if you HAVE to play Jupiter to understand why MMH is broken. I didn't NEED to play M2K to know why Metaknight was broken in Smash... Nobody needed to play Flocker to know why Dark Pheonix was broken in Marvel, or play any of the top Marvel players to know why Vergil was stupid. These characters were so dumb that even if a player didn't have the best reads, the best reactions, the best spacing, etc., they could still make the character look broken as long as they weren't complete trash at the game.

I have seen we have trouble admitting when we're being outplayed in this community, but maybe Jupiter really is that good?

_____________


I also want to throw out that I played other fighting games before this one. MMH is nowhere near Dark Pheonix levels of stupid, who herself was nowhere near as dumb as Vergil. Neither of these characters were even in the same realm of stupid as Metaknight (And I was fighting that character with Mario and Kirby!). Thankfully I never had to personally deal with Viola's stupid shit in SCV, but she seemed considerably worse than MMH too.

Every game will have a top character. This game's is MMH. All things considered, for a #1 character in a fighting game, he's not that bad.



__________


Now to see how long it takes for people to blow me up for this...
Aint nobody got time to read that
 

its_ezie

Apprentice
dont really have a main. play to many characters. but he indeed isnt fair. there isnt to much he can be punished by, on top of having an excellent zoning game, and great trait. i think he's the only character to not have any nerfs done to him while the other cast has. that alont isnt fair because he isnt playing on even playing grounds like everyone else.
 

JLU51306

Bzzzt *Paging Doctor Fate*
I think he's fair. Best in the game? Yeah. OP in certain aspects? I've never heard of a top tier that really wasn't.

Also, these threads are lame.
Best point made so far.

What Top Tier character isn't going to beat the rest in the majority of match-ups? And the fact that we're having a discussion about whether or not he is unfair is like wondering why things get wet when it rains.



This just in, top tier characters unanimously decided to be top tier! :DOGE
 

RM AtK!

aka - RM_AtK !
I believe you need to define "fair" first. Kabal wasn't fair. That's because no characters beat or even came even with him. So yeah, define fair.
Kabal is unfair if you have zero fundamentals etc.. Kabal is the best for sure but saying hes unfair is rediculous. There's tons of "unfair" things in every fighting game with tons of characters. Kabal is def beatable