The Top Tier Narrative and Superman

[Youphemism]

Did somebody say...

Corner damage?

What's max damage in the corner for Joker? With proof by notation or it didn't happen

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

It's not really shitty...you can do it off of another starter if it bothers you that much lol. Hawkgirl 1 bar iirc without jump in, Grundy needs nerfed , Sinestro yes with trait meterless, Bane yeah probably with venom, Lobo's standing 1 isn't super slow , HARLEY GETS LIKE 50 LOL she gets 55% for 1 meter iirc, Ares probably but who cares about him right? Lmao

Hawkgirl needs 2 bars I'm pretty sure. And it would have to be off of her 32 xx mb mace starter which is slow as fuck.
Sinestro if he wastes all of his trait? That isn't realistic...
Lobo doesn't get 55% off of 113 in the corner, the only combo he gets close to 55% with is with a B2 starter or a ton of meter.
Harley gets barely above 50% with a jump in off of b22 or F2. I don't know what starter you are using to get 55% for a bar without a jump in, but let me know.

 

[Qwark28]

What's max damage in the corner for Joker? With proof by notation or it didn't happen

Yes, max damage.

 

[Compbros]

Also, some of the cast doesn't get the damage of Superman but gets much better setups/resets which should be in the discussion if we're talking about Divebomb resets.

 

[Youphemism]

Yes, max damage.

What? I meant what is the max damage Joker gets in the corner? If you could also write out the combo that'd be cool too for future reference

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Also, some of the cast doesn't get the damage of Superman but gets much better setups/resets which should be in the discussion if we're talking about Divebomb resets.

Well to begin, nobody gets those off of as much damage as he does. NOBODY.

Also nobody gets a free interactable off of it like he does. If you include that his corner damage becomes over 70%.

 

[Qwark28]

What? I meant what is the max damage Joker gets in the corner? If you could also write out the combo that'd be cool too for future reference

That's what I said, max damage. He gets max damage. 100%.

j2 32 MB RLG d2 teeth nj2 teeth 213 teeth MB f3 d2 teeth 213 teeth crossup J2 b3 walk under 3 flower

builds 1,5 bars back

 

[Youphemism]

Hawkgirl needs 2 bars I'm pretty sure. And it would have to be off of her 32 xx mb mace starter which is slow as fuck.
Sinestro if he wastes all of his trait? That isn't realistic...
Lobo doesn't get 55% off of 113 in the corner, the only combo he gets close to 55% with is with a B2 starter or a ton of meter.
Harley gets barely above 50% with a jump in off of b22 or F2. I don't know what starter you are using to get 55% for a bar without a jump in, but let me know.

Nope Hawkgirl corner combo starts off with b22~wing evade 2 into b1~wing evade 3 a couple of time then I forget
It's viable point is, he still gets that damage the same way Superman will only get 70% if he starts off his combo in trait and does optimal damage rather than a consistent/practical combo
If he has trait I'm pretty sure he does, 113 into mb czar toss? I'll double check at some point
Yeah she does, b22~db31, f13, f13, 112, 12~mbdbf1 I THINK. Again I'll double check when I can

Edit: Refer to Cage's answer, I'm no Lobo main I just assumed since some trait bnbs seem to do that much

 

[Cage Redfield]

3 CHARACTERS?! Oh Chef.. Lobo,..

Lobo's corner combos that keep the opponent in the corner average around 43% - 45% a little over that with trait shell(s)

He gets 46% - 52% or around that much if you give up the corner/use all your shots

just putting that out there

since you want notation:
113, 113 xx czar toss mb, b3, f21 xx hook charge 46% no shell, 49% 1 shell, 51% 2 shells
B2u1, 113 xx czar toss mb, dash under, 21 xx hook charge 43%
B2u1, 3 xx czar toss mb, b3, j2, 21 xx hook charge 48% no shell, 52% 1 shell

 

[Youphemism]

That's what I said, max damage. He gets max damage. 100%.

j2 32 MB RLG d2 teeth nj2 teeth 213 teeth MB f3 d2 teeth 213 teeth crossup J2 b3 walk under 3 flower

builds 1,5 bars back

Qwark you know I meant a combo, not a reset

 

[Compbros]

Well to begin, nobody gets those off of as much damage as he does. NOBODY.

Also nobody gets a free interactable off of it like he does. If you include that his corner damage becomes over 70%.

Yes, I said that. He has really good corner damage and a reset that could lead to even more but is easier to deal with than some that have lesser corner damage but better reset/setup potential that leads to more damage.

We're now including interactibles? That's really situational stuff though. Are we discounting the situational corner damage of some of the cast along with Supes interactible stuff or do we include everything?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I think we need to change the OP title to "why superman is still good" lol,since we (superman mains and every one else) already conceded that he was still really good just not you know, Martian plus we're going on other tangents about him

@GuamoKun

 

[Qwark28]

Qwark you know I meant a combo, not a reset

You said max damage when I was talking about corner damage.

But by all means, let a character with 5 different ways to score 70% midscreen, guaranteed lifebar combos with a BGB and 100% off of a touch in the corner continue to reside in TYMs bottom 5

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

point is, he still gets that damage the same way Superman will only get 70% if he starts off his combo in trait and does optimal damage rather than a consistent/practical combo

That is his consistent/practical combo. And like I said he gets that damage when he already has trait on (from the combo before which would make sense) or if he didn't use trait yet (it's got to be one of those two things...)

He gets about 80% if there is a corner interactable too.

 

[Compbros]

Yes, Supes is a great character, I just don't believe he's "top tier". High tier is an absolute, just don't think he's top.


Here's a better question, what is "top tier"? Is it up to a certain spot on the "tier list", is it the sum body of one's tools, is it the amount of favorable matchups, what separates high tier from top tier, etc?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

@Youphemism also hawkgirl doesn't get 55% for a bar off of straight B22. I know the whole combo. She gets 52% max.

 

[Compbros]

He gets about 80% if there is a corner interactable too.

What's the setup for this?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

What's the setup for this?

Dive Punch > 3 xx Trait > 3 xx Scoop > 3 xx MB Breath> Jumpover 3 > 3 xx Interactable.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

What's the setup for this?

Or were we talking about off of f2?

F23 > 3 xx Laser > 3 xx Trait > 3 xx Scoop > 3 xx MB Breath > Jumpover 3 > 3 xx Interactable


how you do it depends on the interactable, some aren't free.

If you're on the left side of Stryker's Yard you get 100% for a bar off of this though!

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Ya was gonna say, you can't do this with the car on Wayne manor I don't think

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Ya was gonna say, you can't do this with the car on Wayne manor I don't think

Yeah the car on wayne manor doesn't otg for some reason. The car on metropolis does though.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

This character.... along with all the other top characters..... is dumb in the right situations.

Just like everyone else..... he can kill you in one wrong guess.

I really can't think of a single character that can just "shut him down"

It may "seem" like Chef is up-playing...... but he's not.

People only tend to see a characters weakness when they play them..... so they know how to cover it in certain MU's and what not.

Superman can put you in situations where you cannot push buttons. If he has super and you have less than 40% life....... you cant' press buttons. The only button you can press is down or back.

He can KILL YOU off one good setup.
His projectiles aren't really punishable at all. Heat Zap is probably the 2nd most obnoxious projectile invented in a game. No matter how slow it starts up... if he gets one out there... what are you gonna do?

His trait gives him TWO power ups, one that no one else has at all.... and the added ability to actually NEGATE a few characters traits altogether.

He's freaking good. He just seems very "easy" to autopilot with, and that is what gets people in trouble.

 

[Youphemism]

@Youphemism also hawkgirl doesn't get 55% for a bar off of straight B22. I know the whole combo. She gets 52% max.

I'll take your word for it, but even so Hawkgirl only gets 3% less than Superman so it's still roughly the same damage.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I'll take your word for it, but even so Hawkgirl only gets 3% less than Superman so it's still roughly the same damage.

Hers is off of b22 which is slow with short range. His is off of f23...

 

[Laos_boy]

@EGP Wonder_Chef
Harley gets 52% miscreen. J2 b22 cartwheel b3 j2 f23 silly slide 12 play doctor mb