The Top Tier Narrative and Superman

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I think her airdash is better but that's about it, he dashes feel faster when I play her but I'm no authority on that.


Edit. This is very easy, Superman is high tier, he is not top tier.

I've done a lot of testing with dashes, I can guarantee Supes are slightly better. Like I said he can punish that one thing that I can't talk about, and she can't.

 

[GuamoKun]

I've done a lot of testing with dashes, I can guarantee Supes are slightly better. Like I said he can punish that one thing that I can't talk about, and she can't.

ohohohohohohohohohohoho i know what dat be oh my

 

[Shaazzyam]

Lemme break it down for you:

• Having one good corner thing doesn't make you top tier
• Everyone has good corner damage, again this doesn't make you top tier
• Superman doesn't have the best mobility or the best pressure. In the words of a certain nerfed character from another game- "No chance"
• I can't really comment on air-to-airs since I haven't looked into it myself but refer to Everlast's answer
• His zoning isn't "amazing" it's ok. Yes db3 does a lot of chip and is neutral on block but you can duck it/jump over it and eye lasers are punishable/negative

I by no means said anything about him not being good, he still has good damage and mixups and whatnot, but he's just not what he used to be. Then again I'm some 'random scrub' of course so if anything I've said here is wrong then please Supermains by all means explain why

Ambiguous corner otgs into big damage( especially with corner interactables ) is why his corner game stands out. And straight lasers isn't neutral. It's super plus and builds hella meter.

What he used to be was "block infinite man." Compared to what he used to be, I can see why people would be less scared of him now though.

 

[Youphemism]

This is very easy, Superman is high tier, he is not top tier.

YES, THIS

 

[Cossner]

I want Superman people to play Green Arrow for a while, and then come back to say Sups mobility, damage, zoning and pressure "aren't that good".

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I want Superman people to play Green Arrow for a while, and then come back to say Sups mobility, damage, zoning and pressure "aren't that good".

Who said it wasn't "that good?" As in a supermain? If I am guilty of this I would obviously be forced to retract that statement since it's obviously good. I think the discussion is derailing into people interpreting that superman mains think he sucks. He doesn't. He's a great character. He just not as good as he used to be. That's by no means a downplay, it's fact. But that's about it. He's still easily top ten so I don't even know what the issue is anymore tbh.

 

[DarksydeDash]

He is #11 in my book. He is good there is no doubt about that but with every strength he has there is a weakness. His zoning itself is a 50/50 he is either going to do heat zap (which most characters can interrupt) or hes going to do heat vision which is -11 unless MB'd so its +10. Its chip is also mediocre. His midscreen pressure grants no advantage, f23xxbreath and then your opponent just walks back with a free get away. In short if your character can't outzone Supes he wins, if he gets you in the corner, there is a very thin chance you are going to survive. Don't even get me started on his midscreen damage. He needs 1 bar and trait to just get 1% over the amount WW does. The only thing you got right is his mobility cause he needs it.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Who said it wasn't "that good?" As in a supermain? If I am guilty of this I would obviously be forced to retract that statement since it's obviously good. I think the discussion is derailing into people interpreting that superman mains think he sucks. He doesn't. He's a great character. He just not as good as he used to be. That's by no means a downplay, it's fact. But that's about it. He's still easily top ten so I don't even know what the issue is anymore tbh.

Yo Q! Can we run our set now?

 

[AK Stormthegates]

Superman is a good character that has a good matchup against pretty much everyone in the game at the highest level. He also has a infinite clothes closet so #Swag.

 

[Youphemism]

Agreed but there's way more than that.

Like? His corner divebomb otg mixups? Wonder Woman has that too

Name other characters that get 55% or higher in the corner for one bar off of any starter. 70% off of pretty much anything that isn't F23.

Batgirl gets 55% in the corner, Wonder Woman gets 55% meterless actually, I want to say Flash but I can't confirm that...

Okay again, who has better mobility, and who has better pressure than him, and why?

Wonder Woman, but from reading this apparently her mobility is similar so fair enough. She also has iadg to cover most of the screen though too.

Even on block? haha that thing is like +20 on block or something crazy like that. And MB sweeping laser is never punishable, normal sweeping laser isn't punishable from most distances against almost all of the cast. You act like it being - makes it bad... that's normal... It's still a giant laser that he can do from anywhere that covers nearly the entire screen, which you can MB for tons of chip to make it plus on block. It also builds insane meter.

Oh I thought it was 0 on block nvm. MB eye lasers are still -11 though, he doesn't get out completely free, and you cn jump over it at further distances if it's done in the air so his zoning isn't 'amazing'

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

His zoning itself is a 50/50 he is either going to do heat zap (which most characters can interrupt) or hes going to do heat vision which is -11 unless MB'd so its +10. Its chip is also mediocre.

Lasers do like 2% chip which becomes 5% if MB'd, so I don't know how that is bad. It becomes almost 7% with trait on. Also it hits overhead and ends at +10, that isn't bad in any way... And having a mid hitting projectile that's -11 isn't bad at all either.

His midscreen pressure grants no advantage, f23xxbreath and then your opponent just walks back with a free get away.

There are more than enough ways to catch people. If you think you're just going to rep f23 breath over and over then the problem is you aren't adapting.

In short if your character can't outzone Supes he wins, if he gets you in the corner, there is a very thin chance you are going to survive.

That sounds pretty top tier to me...

Don't even get me started on his midscreen damage. He needs 1 bar and trait to just get 1% over the amount WW does. The only thing you got right is his mobility cause he needs it.

Nobody in the cast gets as much meterless midscreen damage as WoWo, that was a rigged example. He still gets above average damage midscreen and all of his combos can end with the opponent in the corner.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Like? His corner divebomb otg mixups? Wonder Woman has that too

But hers lead to no damage, just advantage. His lead to over 60%.

Batgirl gets 55% in the corner, Wonder Woman gets 55% meterless actually, I want to say Flash but I can't confirm that...

Batgirl gets close to that, that is true. I think WoWo's max meterless damage in the corner is below 50 unless you're talking about some really situational combo that I don't know. Flash I think does too assuming he has trait.

Remember though, 55% is supes' MINIMUM damage. It starts off of an 8 frame super far range move. He gets up to 70ish% off of other starters.

Oh I thought it was 0 on block nvm. MB eye lasers are still -11 though, he doesn't get out completely free, and you cn jump over it at further distances if it's done in the air so his zoning isn't 'amazing'

MB eye lasers are also plus.

 

[Youphemism]

But hers lead to no damage, just advantage. His lead to over 60%.

What are you talking about? If you mb it on hit she gets a combo

Batgirl gets close to that, that is true. I think WoWo's max meterless damage in the corner is below 50 unless you're talking about some really situational combo that I don't know. Flash I think does too assuming he has trait.

No no, WoWo gets 55% meterless in the combo off of a bnb.

Remember though, 55% is supes' MINIMUM damage. It starts off of an 8 frame super far range move. He gets up to 70ish% off of other starters.

Practical, consistent to get damage though. Batgirl gets more off of harder to hit combos and WoWo could get more off of harder to hit combos too

MB eye lasers are also plus.

I thought they were -11?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

What are you talking about? If you mb it on hit she gets a combo

Only if she dive punches them from the front in the corner, otherwise she gets b2 or b23, nothing more.

No no, WoWo gets 55% meterless in the combo off of a bnb.

What combo is it?

I thought they were -11?

Nope, plus.

 

[juicepouch]

If the argument is that Superman isn't still top level good because Wonder Woman might be better, then I think it's fair to say that Superman is still very good. It's not like we're arguing that some absolute shitter is doing what Supes does better than he does

 

[Youphemism]

Only if she dive punches them from the front in the corner, otherwise she gets b2 or b23, nothing more.

True, but it's still damage and WoWo has a very good midscreen game

What combo is it?

From shield stance- 2b1xxbf3, 11b1 x 5, f12xxdb1

Nope, plus.

Was that changed? Frame data says -11

Edit: Never mind, that's air version

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Ares gets 55% in the corner.

METERLESS.

Get on my level.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

From shield stance- 2b1xxbf3, 11b1 x 5, f12xxdb1

Guess you're right. You still have to hit a pretty bad normal to start that combo though. Supes gets it off of F2.

Was that changed? Frame data says -11

Edit: Never mind, that's air version

Even air I don't think is -11. It's dependent on height, but I think -11 at WORST. The lower you are, the less -

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Ares gets 55% in the corner.

METERLESS.

Get on my level.

Fine, Ares top 5.

 

[Rude]

This reminds me of that time some guy asked The Batman Community why we thought Batman wasn't the best character in the game, and then when we were called downplayers for explaining why.

 

[usbigboy]

Superman is still good and is better than Wonder Woman lets be honest.

Shut up about Wonder Woman lol stay free to my supes it's probably top 5 also supermans jump 1 is the best ))

 

[Youphemism]

Ares gets 55% in the corner.

METERLESS.

Get on my level.

Wonder Bitch gets 60% meterless in the corner. SUCK IT ARASS

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Superman's J1 is better than GL's J1?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Superman's J1 is better than GL's J1?

Nah, they both suck

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Nah, they both suck