Match-up Discussion Aquaman Matchup Discussion

[Tom Brady]

Even if I was in the wrong to not give you games that one set we played, which I admit was a bit childish (it was entertaining for me at the heat of the moment)....I still told you at the time "I'll play you more after NEC". I never said, "I will never play you EVER" and then I suddenly demanded games just because I lost our FT5. Don't make me look like an absolute fool.

Just for the sake of argument, did I not hold my word about playing you after NEC by sending you invites?

TBH.. i'm just getting on you and DMS for shits and giggles, same as you guys do with me. I dont really have any issue with you guys or anything you say because its all just jokes. The times you sent me an invite, I was being a bit childish as well. I'll gladly run matches with you, I just havent been on PSN for a while. I'll be on the road this week for Winter Brawl, I'd love to run a lot of matches with you when I get back.

Now I have a legitimate question. If the Martian attempts to backdash after the blocked teleport, is he still in B2 range?

Yes, B2 will hit him but he can hit you out of B2. So in the end it comes down to a mix up. Aquaman can definitely win the exchange with some good reads, its just a guessing game now rather then a guaranteed Trident Rush.

 

[Tom Brady]

I still would not risk back dashing that much since the timing of back dashing the trident rush and back dashing the b2 is different.. or even FTD(if you try to back dash the trident rush his B2 will blow you up as you probably know, same with a well timed FTD for a full combo). ill experiment with this and I would prefer to not teleport at all against this character lol, the sets ive had with high level AM players gets me nowhere. @Syknis blew my teleport up by water shielding it. @EMPEROR_THEO usually does b2 if he reads i will back dash the trident rush so id rather eat chip then a full combo. and teleporting against you also got me no where. - this is not me taking credit away from what you posted here. just saying AM has many options against dealing with teleport vs most of the cast

I agree, I was just showing that if the MMH player makes the read, he can get out of it and punish. Just showing that its not guaranteed is all.

Aquaman can also B2~trident Rush if unsure if the opponent will bd or block. B2~Rush beats bd, beats jumping, beats MB B3, and is safe when blocked. Only thing they can do is hit me out of it or block, both of which get caught by reversal MB Rush.

 

[Tom Brady]

@EMPEROR_THEO

Not sure if you use this, but I recently found a way to beat out MMH trait 3 from the start of the round with F1. You can also youse F13 and get a combo. The MMH player can do nothing /bd and whiff punish you or start out with a teleport, but this opens up more options or just allows you to get some space.

 

[EMPEROR_THEO]

@EMPEROR_THEO

Not sure if you use this, but I recently found a way to beat out MMH trait 3 from the start of the round with F1. You can also youse F13 and get a combo. The MMH player can do nothing /bd and whiff punish you or start out with a teleport, but this opens up more options or just allows you to get some space.

If Jupiter/Sajam/Krayzie read a F2 (which is what I use to stuff Martian's standing 3 at the start) at the start of the match, they'll do an instant air teleport, which will punish it. Can that same thing be done to Aquaman's F1?

 

[EMPEROR_JUPITER]

I agree, I was just showing that if the MMH player makes the read, he can get out of it and punish. Just showing that its not guaranteed is all.

Aquaman can also B2~trident Rush if unsure if the opponent will bd or block. B2~Rush beats bd, beats jumping, beats MB B3, and is safe when blocked. Only thing they can do is hit me out of it or block, both of which get caught by reversal MB Rush.

yes. exactly what i was trying to say. it is better the risk the chip then a combo IMO. unless i need a YOLO read ofcourse

 

[Tom Brady]

If Jupiter/Sajam/Krayzie read a F2 (which is what I use to stuff Martian's standing 3 at the start) at the start of the match, they'll do an instant air teleport, which will punish it. Can that same thing be done to Aquaman's F1?

Yes, I just use F1 over F2 because at least I get a combo when I'm right. When I read instant air oh teleport, I just hold forward as he begins to teleport. This allows me to block the teleport the opposite way and get a 39% punish. The MMH player can always okie-doke me and use the non oh teleport though if they wish to assume the risk.

 

[Tom Brady]

Something I was talking about on the podcast last night was Aquaman's ability to beat Raven's wake ups after F2 1+3 by using an early high jump in 3.

Why not use MB B3 dash cancel or Water Shield dash cancel?

1. The MB B3 dash cancel costs 1 bar of meter. If the Raven player gets up and does nothing, they can react to the dash cancel and then you die. Also, they can get away by back dashing and it makes it hard to close space because the MB B3 dash cancel is not instant.

2. Water Shield like the MB B3 dash cancel can be reacted to should the Raven player wake up and just block. Then can punish you as you cancel with a backwards or forwards dash and then you die.




The early, high jump 3 forces the Raven player to guess rather than react..

1. They can MB B3/F3 you out of it but not on reaction.To actually get the attack out in time you hit you, they have to do it as a guess right as they wake up. This can be baited by doing nothing and punishing the whiffed MB attack.

2. The Raven player can also back dash but this can be baited and punished with FTD(VERY risky because they can just block and punish) or you can forward dash and catch her out of her back dash with B12.

3. The Raven player can always just get up and block the jump 3 which grants Aquaman a B12~MB Trident Rush on block. Your standard Aquman combo takes one bar of meter, but even though you are using a second bar for the Mb Trident Rush, you will still have only used one bar of meter. Between the damage inflicted on the combo that got the knockdown and the chip on the jump 3 into the B12~MB Trident Rush, you will have gained exactly one bar of meter.

So, in review...

J3 is a win for Aquaman if they wake up attack or get up and block the J3 into B12~MB Trident Rush. Even if they always get up and block, blocking J3 into MB Trident Rush forces them to attempt to get out of the situation by back dashing or MB B3/F3. Both of those options can be baited and punished.

 

[Sultan]

The computer isn't moving forward with the trident rush. Are you certain that a forward advancing trident rush doesn't reach and punish the back dashes recovery?

 

[Syknis]

The computer isn't moving forward with the trident rush. Are you certain that a forward advancing trident rush doesn't reach and punish the back dashes recovery?

Try testing it out for yourself. MMH can still get away

 

[Sultan]

Try testing it out for yourself. MMH can still get away

I did and I couldn't get away. Which is why I asked. I must be timing the set-up wrong if he can get away.

 

[Syknis]

I did and I couldn't get away. Which is why I asked. I must be timing the set-up wrong if he can get away.

Don't backdash right away. Try doing it a bit late.

 

[Sultan]

Don't backdash right away. Try doing it a bit late.

You have to do this with someone, or record the computer MMH doing their oh tele and backdash manually. The latter's hard to recreate.

2 other things complicate this as well. 1 being that there are two different timings to block MMH oh teleport. The computer's just frame blocking it. In a real match, unless your timing your block, you're probably blocking it earlier which changes the situation in Tom's video.

The other thing is something 16Bit and SonicFox mentioned the other day:

Young @SonicFox5000 you are right. I was using the CPU training mode reversal to test it. I guess the CPU doesn't do a reversal at the earliest possible frame. Looks like Lex truly cannot though.

 

[Syknis]

Good point man. I tested this out with my little bro. It's legit

 

[FrozenG3oX]

Good point man. I tested this out with my little bro. It's legit

so you can backdash it

 

[Syknis]

so you can backdash it

Yeah you can. It's still a really good option though. You could force the MMH player to be perfect and let the mindgames go on from there.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

what is the AM vs NW matchup supposed to be?

 

[MrSoloLobo]

Is anybody able to consistently punish Deathstroke Low shots? It's freaking hard for me to get a reversal out for some reason and it only happens when I'm trying to punish this. Any tips?

 

[Prinz]

Bump for frontpage #scumbag

 

[orochiDragon]

How's the Ares match up for AM? I main Ares and I have a difficult time with him. Is it really that easy of a match up?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

How's the Ares match up for AM? I main Ares and I have a difficult time with him. Is it really that easy of a match up?

The footsies game is rough, but if you can get him down on his back, you can go to town. Definately disadvantage match for Ares.

 

[orochiDragon]

The footsies game is rough, but if you can get him down on his back, you can go to town. Definately disadvantage match for Ares.

That's about what I thought. If I can get a knockdown, the only thing I have to do is bait out those multi hit wake up moves. I also feel like AM's ground projectile blows up all my special move options. Lol Ares has alot of crappy mu's!

 

[Phased]

can someone tell me why aquaman WW is supposed to be like 9-1 or am I just bad in assuming she has 100x the tools to get around his stuff than say, joker?

 

[RM NoBrows]

This thread title should be "the characters Aquaman beats"

 

[Syknis]

can someone tell me why aquaman WW is supposed to be like 9-1 or am I just bad in assuming she has 100x the tools to get around his stuff than say, joker?

WW has to work harder in neutral so its pretty much a flow chart match for aqua. Keep her out with gdlk normals and space control and force her to take a risk.

 

[FrozenG3oX]

WW has to work harder in neutral so its pretty much a flow chart match for aqua. Keep her out with gdlk normals and space control and force her to take a risk.

I wanna ask something about the WW match up. If I know for sure that she's gonna do b2 into lasso, what should I do to beat it out ? i dont think f2 is good in this situation, but I'm not sure