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Match-up Discussion Nightwing Match-Up Discussion (1.06 and on)

Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
@Shaazzyam don't forget that d2 crowbar is not a true block string, you can backdash/armor it. D2 flower can be armored, but only at max range.

If you block a flower you have to respect another one. If you get hit by one you're fine.

Last bit of advice is that this is one my where you might wanna play regime nw because the clash quotes are pretty good.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
RM Chongo said:
@Shaazzyam don't forget that d2 crowbar is not a true block string, you can backdash/armor it. D2 flower can be armored, but only at max range.

If you block a flower you have to respect another one. If you get hit by one you're fine.

Last bit of advice is that this is one my where you might wanna play regime nw because the clash quotes are pretty good.
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You should always play Regime NW because of "OWNAGE"
 
gpmoney

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
pfffffft Regime NW. I used to play him because of his long hair then I read the comics and saw he killed Dick :mad: no! plus his lines are shitty lol
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
gpmoney said:
@Braindead here have a snickers, you get all crazy when you dont have one

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I don't know man.. I hate that you when you are in Escrima you have only 1 frame window to punish regular divekicks. I hate that he can jump over everything NW does and he gets away with it for free because we don't have any anti-air moves. I hate that he can actually zone you out with Lightning strike and Black magic which are shitty zoning tools but they work against NW because his mobility is crap (I get caught in black magic like 50% of the time because I try to jump over them but NW's jumps have an insanely slow start-up time). I hate that when I corner him he can just neutral jump then far divekick and go back to midscreen (and yes he can jump over our NJ2 in staff quite consistently). I also hate that we don't have anything that locks characters down midscreen but when he gets in he's safe on everything and his shit barely has any pushblock so he can stay in your face.

I can deal with most of the shit I said above except for the damned jumping. If you have any advice on how we can stop BA from jumping around like an idiot you would make me a happy man.
 
gpmoney

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
Braindead said:
I don't know man.. I hate that you when you are in Escrima you have only 1 frame window to punish regular divekicks. I hate that he can jump over everything NW does and he gets away with it for free because we don't have any anti-air moves. I hate that he can actually zone you out with Lightning strike and Black magic which are shitty zoning tools but they work against NW because his mobility is crap (I get caught in black magic like 50% of the time because I try to jump over them but NW's jumps have an insanely slow start-up time). I hate that when I corner him he can just neutral jump then far divekick and go back to midscreen (and yes he can jump over our NJ2 in staff quite consistently). I also hate that we don't have anything that locks characters down midscreen but when he gets in he's safe on everything and his shit barely has any pushblock so he can stay in your face.

I can deal with most of the shit I said above except for the damned jumping. If you have any advice on how we can stop BA from jumping around like an idiot you would make me a happy man.
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Well like any fighting game if you are having trouble with Jump ins you have to condition the opponent to stop or slow down. for example If MMH dose overhead TP and you check him with B2 he will start backing up or using MB b3 because you have conditioned him to slow down and realize he cant just keep doing it.

In the BA match up I usually stay in escrima for movement and do cancels when close. We do have tools for Midscreen BA idk if you remember the 'Hot sause' set up but its your go to. You end all combos in sweep and do a GP, if in ecrima you have to switch out and GP. this stops all of his wake up options even cage and MB cage. if you MB GP the 2nd hit will launch and you get a full combo. The BA MU is alot of reads and conditioning. when he jumps I jump and delay Wingdings if I see a button. the WD will stop his dive kick if spaced correctly. if he tries to jump over me I dash in the opposite direction for space and slowly Work my way in. After you make BA realize he cant keep dive kicking he will start zone or frame traps. Now this is scrubby (You must be one with the YOLO) but if im close to him and he is about to throw lightning or BM I switch to staff and grayson cause it hops over him. I tried all this on Rico suave I got away with it but still lost 2-0 :\

@Sajam and @RM Chongo have videos of them playing BA. chongo played Rico and got a game on him and Sajam plays at WNF. Im sure there is alot I missed because I dont have alot of BA exp due to small scene and no one on my friends list plays him so I do alot of theory fighting then test it in a random match.
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Lol don't watch my match vs Rico I played like garbage. I threw wingdings waaaaaaaaay too much
 
TheBoyBlunder

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
In that Qwark vs Chongo video, at 13:06 into the video Qwark did a close range D2, which is -15, Chongo could of punished it freely and ended the match with a B2, F2 or B1.
Another thing I noticed is the unpunished raw jump ins. I don't know if its because it's being played online, but anytime you clearly read Joker getting off the floor for a Jump In, Back Dash and B2 will keep him honest. NW doesn't have a great back dash to avoid some attacks, but I would rather make Joker whiff than just block and hold all his plus strings to be a total disadvantage. In about 20 minutes into the video which I believe was the last match, Chongo was in staff and he did a D1, Qwark just did a jump over J2 and kept doing it. For NW, sitting there and letting Joker move around for free is exactly what Joker wants. NW at D1 is at plus frames and you can neutral J2 him to make him respect your ground and not jump over you for free so often.
 
Shaazzyam

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
Mistah J has no pushblock tech, which is pretty big in the MU for us. All his setups are now are blockable and he gets zoned pretty hard. No way it's still a 6-4

Discuss
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
You can't punish a jump out of d2 teeth or gas can when done properly, don't judge the matchup out of just 16 games.

I'll record with any nightwing, hit me up.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Shaazzyam said:
Mistah J has no pushblock tech, which is pretty big in the MU for us. All his setups are now are blockable and he gets zoned pretty hard. No way it's still a 6-4

Discuss
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It didn't matter much vs nightwing.

HOW are his setups all blockable when none required pushblock?

Wat.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
TheBoyBlunder said:
In that Qwark vs Chongo video, at 13:06 into the video Qwark did a close range D2, which is -15, Chongo could of punished it freely and ended the match with a B2, F2 or B1.
Another thing I noticed is the unpunished raw jump ins. I don't know if its because it's being played online, but anytime you clearly read Joker getting off the floor for a Jump In, Back Dash and B2 will keep him honest. NW doesn't have a great back dash to avoid some attacks, but I would rather make Joker whiff than just block and hold all his plus strings to be a total disadvantage. In about 20 minutes into the video which I believe was the last match, Chongo was in staff and he did a D1, Qwark just did a jump over J2 and kept doing it. For NW, sitting there and letting Joker move around for free is exactly what Joker wants. NW at D1 is at plus frames and you can neutral J2 him to make him respect your ground and not jump over you for free so often.
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D2 being -15 is automaticly a just frame punish for B2, you also have to react to joker not cancelling it. D2 is -14 though.

Agreed on the backdash B2 check from certain ranges, too close and Joker can clip the backdash with J3.
 
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TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Qwark28 said:
D2 being -15 is automaticly a just frame punish for B2, you also have to react to joker not cancelling it. D2 is -14 though.

Agreed on the backdash B2 check from certain ranges, too close and Joker can clip the backdash with J3.
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That crowbar has dumb range lol, I find myself resorting to jump back 2 a lot in the neutral which falls into jokers favour once he reads it.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
TakeAChance said:
That crowbar has dumb range lol, I find myself resorting to jump back 2 a lot in the neutral which falls into jokers favour once he reads it.
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Yeah, if Flash can't 6f shoryuken it you're not backdashing it on reaction, it's Joker's best tool.
 
TakeAChance

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
AK L0rdoftheFLY said:
Can we stop talking about Joker?

Does anybody have any footage of Nightwing versus a good Aquaman? I'd like to see footage against Theo, Tom Brady, or syknis

@Sajam
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I played Tom a while ago in two very long sets. He got the majority of wins, but it's one of my favourite Nightwing matchups. It's also one that he can comfortably stay in staff. There is a huge trident/ground pound meta.

Nightwing cannot get a guaranteed pound unless he blocks the trident. If he tried to do Aquaman can stuff it with his trident.

But as soon as Nightwing gets a pound out, Aqua has to either jump, block the pound, or move.

It becomes a pretty fun battle, one where Grayson plays a huge role as well.
 
Sajam

Sajam

Nightwing In Retirement
I think I've played Theo at almost every WNF, and he knows the MU better than anybody I know. When an Aquaman really understands the MU you can't sit in staff, he can force you to approach in escrima, which really sucks.

Once the Aquaman player understands to dash forward, back dash, or jump the next pound, it becomes hard to out turtle him without bar. It's also hard to comeback in staff, since his mb b3 shuts down you offense and his chip makes you attempt to use escrima to get in and make something happen.
 
gpmoney

gpmoney

CORN | gpmoney. Saltier than a bag of chips.
I feel comfy in both stances in this MU but that's a personal preference
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Yeah theo is the best at the aquaman-nw mu. He knows how to deal with everything :(

Insaynne best aquaman though
 
Shaazzyam

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
Qwark28 said:
It didn't matter much vs nightwing.

HOW are his setups all blockable when none required pushblock?

Wat.
Click to expand...
At midscreen, I don't think it's that hard tbh. Fuzzy block the overhead/crossup overhead then the teeth. Or the low into teeth. You don't have to respect a lot of his setups either.

We should try connecting
 
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