Match-up Discussion Nightwing Match-Up Discussion (1.06 and on)

[Chongo]

Once a Nightwing always A Nightwing.






So, I ran into a sexy Joker named Notez. Im gonna get a set and hopefully @gpmoney will be there to record.

Will post results.

Notez is godlike from what I've heard.

Also sorry about not responding to your xbl message, was on PSN when you sent it.

 

[Qwark28]

@Notez4

 

[Qwark28]

Recorded a FT9 vs Chongo, will upload tomorrow. He plays the matchup as it should be played.

 

[Notez4]

Thanks! and yea im down for a set man just let me know

 

[Shaazzyam]

Notez is godlike from what I've heard.

Also sorry about not responding to your xbl message, was on PSN when you sent it.

Oh, for a second there I thought you were getting all Hollywood on me, Mr. NW of America. Kappa

I'm ready for that set anytime btw

 

[Qwark28]

 

[TakeAChance]

He should never let you get that many wakeup flowers.

Definitely patient gameplay tho. Would love to see him incorporate Nightwings Anti-Wakeup setups here.

 

[Qwark28]

He should never let you get that many wakeup flowers.

Definitely patient gameplay tho. Would love to see him incorporate Nightwings Anti-Wakeup setups here.

He lets me get away with them because I know when to do them, I very rarely wake up after a setup, mostly on a read or if I know he can't dash up to me or move in time.

Watch the whole vid and let me know when he could've done a wakeup mixup worth the bar/risk.

 

[TakeAChance]

He lets me get away with them because I know when to do them, I very rarely wake up after a setup, mostly on a read or if I know he can't dash up to me or move in time.

Watch the whole vid and let me know when he could've done a wakeup mixup worth the bar/risk.

You don't need setups against joker tho. You just need space. Please correct me if I am wrong (I am going from memory here as I don't play this matchup very much) but a well spaced Ground pound will beat every wakeup option the clown has and leave you at advantage.

I could be wrong tho.

 

[Qwark28]

You don't need setups against joker tho. You just need space. Please correct me if I am wrong (I am going from memory here as I don't play this matchup very much) but a well spaced Ground pound will beat every wakeup option the clown has and leave you at advantage.

I could be wrong tho.

That's true unless you time the ground pound just as he's waking up since crowbar has a few invincibility frames at startup, similar to BAs palpatine to just tank an early hit and still function.

IMO if you want to stop Joker from waking up then you should never end with a flip kick anti wakeup setup that you'd do right after ( except if you're in the corner ) and just dash up after the combo and MB F3. A patient Joker will make you waste your bar or stay out of the range you want to be in and an on point NW will choose 1-2 moments to cash in a nice combo with it.

The main problem I think lies in NW being so slow with his ranged moves like ground pound to punish something like flower.

 

[Qwark28]

That said, Chongo has been grinding out the matchup with me and we'll play more, he improves a lot every time we play.

In this MU your main focus with NW is being mobile when Joker is chasing you with escrima and situationally in staff when you need chip or a quick mixup or two. Your main problem is you have nothing against Joker up close since that's the range where he wants you, escrima by itself is not a constant pressure and relies on reactable stuff and frametraps while staff is more read 50/50 like between parry, staff pound backdashes etc but way more susceptible to Joker's jump game without a good dash/backdash like escrima.

 

[TakeAChance]

That said, Chongo has been grinding out the matchup with me and we'll play more, he improves a lot every time we play.

In this MU your main focus with NW is being mobile when Joker is chasing you with escrima and situationally in staff when you need chip or a quick mixup or two. Your main problem is you have nothing against Joker up close since that's the range where he wants you, escrima by itself is not a constant pressure and relies on reactable stuff and frametraps while staff is more read 50/50 like between parry, staff pound backdashes etc but way more susceptible to Joker's jump game without a good dash/backdash like escrima.

I disagree. I want to knock him down. That's my goal everytime I play one. As soon as I do, it becomes a ground pound/ j2 / ej throw fest.

Problem with joker that I can't seem to get around is the D2~special and his options when he has NW on the ground. LBSH when nightwing gets knocked down, Jokers Jumps just eat him alive. It's a fun matchup and Joker has more dirt in it, but Nightwing has better options to maintain pressure.

Quark, after a pushblock, can Nightwing Grayson before you get the shot off?

 

[TakeAChance]

I would be very interested in looking at the follow up options Joker has vs Nightwing after a pushblock. That could be a big thing right there.

 

[Qwark28]

I disagree. I want to knock him down. That's my goal everytime I play one. As soon as I do, it becomes a ground pound/ j2 / ej throw fest.

Problem with joker that I can't seem to get around is the D2~special and his options when he has NW on the ground. LBSH when nightwing gets knocked down, Jokers Jumps just eat him alive. It's a fun matchup and Joker has more dirt in it, but Nightwing has better options to maintain pressure.

Quark, after a pushblock, can Nightwing Grayson before you get the shot off?

I didn't say that you don't wanna knock him down, just that when you do it tends to happen off of staff and you need to spend a bar on a read to punish my wakeups.

Joker doesn't want to pressure you in the sense of maintaining it, he just wants to jump and set teeth, he doesn't really have any solid pressure via strings. His defense with D2 is solid because NW is a character without any outstandingly fast and far reaching moves like WWs B2 so D2 pretty much dominates the jump distance game.

At jump distance you need to be more careful and up close you can't stop me from jumping unless you get a frametrap going.

No, FG hits first but the guessing game there is very much in my favor.

What I think you guys need to start using in this matchup is ranges at which flying grayson is + on knockdown so you can not only moderate wakeups but get in at + when you need to.

 

[Shaazzyam]

Will @A F0xy Grampa please move to America for some sets? You can stay at my house if you want.

 

[Chongo]

He should never let you get that many wakeup flowers.

Definitely patient gameplay tho. Would love to see him incorporate Nightwings Anti-Wakeup setups here.

I did 1d3 into delayed ground blast, but he blocked it.

 

[Sajam]

The thing I'm most unhappy with in your games with Qwark @RM Chongo is your zoning.

You weren't representing in ranges where I'd like to see different things. Not using mb pound to trip guard jumps, not enough wing dings at a space to beat jump towards, not enough ground sparks or ground spark dash cancels, or after hitting him with like 5 things in a row you just stop zoning and hold down back. You seemed a little afraid to use your tools. Part of NW's zoning is putting these things out because you know where your opponent is gonna be. All I'm thinking is, "Yeah I would have thrown wing dings right here because it was obvious he was gonna dash, or b2 after a well spaced wing dings to beat a dash in after, etc"

Sometimes your zoning looks so solid, and then you start getting afraid and aren't putting as much on screen as you should. That's my biggest complaint.

 

[Chongo]

The thing I'm most unhappy with in your games with Qwark @RM Chongo is your zoning.

You weren't representing in ranges where I'd like to see different things. Not using mb pound to trip guard jumps, not enough wing dings at a space to beat jump towards, not enough ground sparks or ground spark dash cancels, or after hitting him with like 5 things in a row you just stop zoning and hold down back. You seemed a little afraid to use your tools. Part of NW's zoning is putting these things out because you know where your opponent is gonna be. All I'm thinking is, "Yeah I would have thrown wing dings right here because it was obvious he was gonna dash, or b2 after a well spaced wing dings to beat a dash in after, etc"

Sometimes your zoning looks so solid, and then you start getting afraid and aren't putting as much on screen as you should. That's my biggest complaint.

I know what you mean, and I agree. It's the weakest part of my gameplay and I need to work on it.

If there's anything else I'm doing wrong, let me know.


Also can we get the part where I'm cornered and I block all these almost unblockables for like 10 seconds and turn them into a gif?

 

[Dirtylova]

The thing I'm most unhappy with in your games with Qwark @RM Chongo is your zoning.

You weren't representing in ranges where I'd like to see different things. Not using mb pound to trip guard jumps, not enough wing dings at a space to beat jump towards, not enough ground sparks or ground spark dash cancels, or after hitting him with like 5 things in a row you just stop zoning and hold down back. You seemed a little afraid to use your tools. Part of NW's zoning is putting these things out because you know where your opponent is gonna be. All I'm thinking is, "Yeah I would have thrown wing dings right here because it was obvious he was gonna dash, or b2 after a well spaced wing dings to beat a dash in after, etc"

Sometimes your zoning looks so solid, and then you start getting afraid and aren't putting as much on screen as you should. That's my biggest complaint.

^^^ Your explanation *thumbs up*

 

[Shaazzyam]

Also can we get the part where I'm cornered and I block all these almost unblockables for like 10 seconds and turn them into a gif?

I was going to say something about that. Blocking some of those setups looked more strict than DD's Earthshaker. Props

 

[Shaazzyam]

I just finished my set with @Notez4 a solid Joker. My first time playing the MU, it was 10-6 Notez. Here's what I learned:

•You want to zone Joker in Escrima as long as you can. Once NW gets his ground sparks going Joker really can't do much fullscreen. Joker has to come in. Try to read a dash/jump in and punish with B2 or Wingdings. If he has the life lead use spark cancels to get in.


•Joker's wake ups are booty. Flip kick will stuff them every time. Notez knew this and didn't wake up once.

• At the right spacing, Joker's D2 xx low gas/ teeth setup can be jumped out of and maybe punishable with wingdings. Not sure.However if the the Joker player knows you'll jump he can anti air you into another setup. If you see him jump you can dash forward in time to get out.
D2 Crowbar will anti air you depending on the spacing.

• In the corner you have to hold all of a Joker's dirty shit. Just block, please.
MB B3 is your friend.

•MB B3 his JI3. Makes him second guess.

• Joker's D2 range is no.... joke. Try to stay out of that range. Block low and react to overheads.


I still feel it's a 5-5. Possibly in NW's favor. I'm going to grind the MU more before i give my definite opinion.

That's pretty much what i got so far. Will edit if i remember anything else.

 

[Notez4]

whats a wake up? haha nice set man

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

@jokerplayers

respect

I love watching jokers players.

 

[Braindead]

NW vs Black Adam is 2-8.
THERE I SAID IT.
DON'T ARGUE WITH ME.
I am super salty right now, BUT I SPEAK THE TRUTH.

 

[gpmoney]

NW vs Black Adam is 2-8.
THERE I SAID IT.
DON'T ARGUE WITH ME.
I am super salty right now, BUT I SPEAK THE TRUTH.

@Braindead here have a snickers, you get all crazy when you dont have one