Match-up Discussion (1.06) Superman Matchup Discussion

[heymanjack]

How do you guys deal with Lex? His trait is freakin cheap. With out my trait up, I'm basically getting my ass handed to me.

 

[Everlast]

How do you guys deal with Lex? His trait is freakin cheap. With out my trait up, I'm basically getting my ass handed to me.

Zone him out. Then trait when he traits up. He has a shitty dash so he has to work hard to get in. Zone wisely though to keep him out efficiently. Learn his mixups so if he gets in you don't let him get started. Once he gets started with all his setups it becomes difficult on us. Also learn the spacing of his corpse charge that way you can prevent him from using that as the final move to get in and punish a laser attempt.

xQUANTUMx
Gurimmjaw
HazeJupiter
Anything you guys want to add or correct?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Zone him out. Then trait when he traits up. He has a shitty dash so he has to work hard to get in. Zone wisely though to keep him out efficiently. Learn his mixups so if he gets in you don't let him get started. Once he gets started with all his setups it becomes difficult on us. Also learn the spacing of his corpse charge that way you can prevent him from using that as the final move to get in and punish a laser attempt.

xQUANTUMx
Gurimmjaw
HazeJupiter
Anything you guys want to add or correct?

Yes precisely. His trait buff makes the match slightly more annoying but it doesn't change the overall meta for supes I don't think. Lex is slow in starting up all his stuff so zoning him is the smarter option. Up close, he's not terrible to handle. I believe that superman's normals/frame traps are better. Corp charge is completely full combo punishable. what will trip you up is what Everlast stated. Give lex a chance to throw out his gravity mines and set you up for big damage and you're looking at a bad night. You must impose your gameplan before he imposes his

 

[heymanjack]

My zoning kinda sucks with superman so I'll work on that, bulldogging lex seems to work badly for me. The problem I have with superman's heat vision is they come out too slow so Lex is usually in my face quickly.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Your zoning has to be smart. You have to bait movement and punish. Just chucking lasers doesn't work anymore since the recovery is longer

 

[Gurimmjaw]

Superman vs Lex:

One of the things you need to be wary of vs Lex Luthor is his corp charge. If you try anything on knockdown aside from air dash you may be risking to get a corp charge tot he face. So I advise not doing something so risky against him there. Wait and act as you will do something bait it out and then once they do the corp charge punish with our favorite friend F23. Don't go too jump happy either as he has an air version of it.

Trait:

You need not to worry about the trait of his at all as Superman's trait has armor breaking properties. When you see the Lex player trait up it time for you to trait up as well. If you applying pressure make sure you add the trait in afterwards so in block strings use something like F2xxtrait or F23xxtrait or 3xxtrait(this a frame trap). Superman has nothing to fear against Lex Luthor up close aside from gravity minds which comes out very slowly. So what you need to do is watch out for those set ups when they are up close to you.

Also I would like to add some Lex players will do some D1's. When you see this happening make sure you whiff punish with F23. You must never allow the Lex player to gain the momentum in this match. Matter of fact don't even let them get near you. Lex has a trouble getting in against people who can zone him out.

All of Lex's specials are much slower than Superman's so the best idea is to zone him out as he will have trouble getting in on you. Also if they keep dashing towards you and you make a good read punish with a flying much or flying punch mb. Once that starts happening and they are full screen away from you then zone away. Lex is not doing nothing here. He has trouble against Superman's zoning.

If some of his mix ups get you then you need to know what the mixs ups are. 112 is an overhead. Some players will also add in db2 which is also punishable with F23. There also b31 which a low, and b2 which an overhead. So when the Lex player attacking you keep these attacks they have in mind and make sure to whiff punish as well.

Do not fall for the gravity mine traps. All you need to do is block low against them. An example some Lex players will do is 112 then gravity mine and once they do that they will try to push you into it with the corp charge. Just blow low when they try to do that.

 

[wayward]

I`m having difficulties with Aquaman. I usually just try meterless combos (F23, ji2, 22 low scoop 3 fp) and save my meter for zoning so that I`m not being punished by FtD. Are there any good combos that do over 30% and don`t have mb breath that I should be using in this mu

 

[Everlast]

Also try to incorporate the D3, F2D13 and even B23 (not as reliable) at the end of your combos which are hard knockdowns. That way you can start to take advantage of his shitty wakeup game. dont be afraid to use meter in your combos.

 

[Death]

How do you guys approach the HG MU? I've been really trying to dissect it and it just seems like a nightmare. What do you supe mains think of it?

 

[xQUANTUMx]

It is a nightmare. Jb2 helps beat her wakeups and rising grab can take her out of the air (if you make it past the barrage of maces). I save most of my meter for Pushblock bc this bitch likes to press buttons since she's safe on almost everything

@Espio anything to add from your perspective?

 

[KRL-STL]

I have a question against MMH...

After safe teleport how viable is heatzap right after u block the teleport...my opponent kept going for d+2, another teleport or dashfoward and throw....blown up and seemed like he didn't know what to do! So I ask maybe it was just him...or is that a viable response for safe teleport!

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Sounds more like a lack of Mu knowledge.

 

[KRL-STL]

Okay but how viable!?

 

[Everlast]

Okay but how viable!?

Not really at all. The start up frames is a lot on the heat zap so MMH can punish us for that.

 

[NorCalSamurai]

Ok, so. Aquaman.

How are you guys playing the neutral game in this MU? Especially when out of meter.

Zoning: Heat zap gets blown up on reaction from anywhere by FTD, Air lasers get blown up by FTD on block, Ground lasers technically punishable on block (although I don't see anyone do it).

Rushdown: F23 outranged by B2 and B12, and slower than F1.

Air dash crossups: D2 lololololololololol

Defense: No way (that I know of) to punish Trident Rush, which most good AM's hit confirm into on block. Blockstrings have enough pushback to cause an F23 whiff on back walk.

And when you finally do get in on him and land anything but an immediate launcher (MB F/B3, Scoop, IAGS on a reset, which can be traited out of after MB breath), he traits up, pushblocks you, and you're back in hell.

If this is supposed to be a 5-5, then I'm missing something. Suggestions?

Things I'm considering: Getting better at IA dashes to avoid the reaction d2. Running like hell and throwing out lasers on baited FTD's. Small mixups based on immediate launches when AM's trait is up. Picking up GL or MMH (lol).

 

[Everlast]

From what I understand about this MU is that you are right when I comes to zoning. I only throw out a laser if I counter FTD. So up close gotta find a way to out footsie him to open him up. I rarely have an AM trait up between F2 and 3, But if they do then get back to work to open him up because he can't use trait right away. Now when you finally open up you have to take advantage of lack of good wake ups.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

OKI. You MUST end your combos in hard knockdowns. This match in particular you may have to sacrifice damage for setups. This is one of the matches you need to be on point with your IAGS setups bc this launches him and he can't trait block it.

TL/DR this match sucks balls

 

[Superman Prime]

i think superman is a really good character all around. i don't have any problems with any matchups, even after the patch. mmh can be difficult but he isnt impossible. wonder woman can be really hard too. honestly hawkgirl can be a bitch sometimes lol

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Ok, so. Aquaman.

How are you guys playing the neutral game in this MU? Especially when out of meter.

Zoning: Heat zap gets blown up on reaction from anywhere by FTD, Air lasers get blown up by FTD on block, Ground lasers technically punishable on block (although I don't see anyone do it).

Rushdown: F23 outranged by B2 and B12, and slower than F1.

Air dash crossups: D2 lololololololololol

Defense: No way (that I know of) to punish Trident Rush, which most good AM's hit confirm into on block. Blockstrings have enough pushback to cause an F23 whiff on back walk.

And when you finally do get in on him and land anything but an immediate launcher (MB F/B3, Scoop, IAGS on a reset, which can be traited out of after MB breath), he traits up, pushblocks you, and you're back in hell.

If this is supposed to be a 5-5, then I'm missing something. Suggestions?

Things I'm considering: Getting better at IA dashes to avoid the reaction d2. Running like hell and throwing out lasers on baited FTD's. Small mixups based on immediate launches when AM's trait is up. Picking up GL or MMH (lol).

It's really annoying because you have to turn off your muscle memory and make Aquaman specific combos. I try unpredictable instant air lasers to catch the Aquaman doing something or keep him on his toes, meterburn them on block to keep them safe, and avoid using raw Heat Zap unless I have a ridiculous life lead and he's trying to get in with dashes and jumps. If you freeze him, and he traits up, just use Heat Zap to maintain +frame pressure. I hope these videos are of use to you:

 

[xQUANTUMx]

@Emperor DMS thanks for your contributions keep 'em coming man

 

[Solo_Is_The_Name]

@Emperor DMS thanks for your contributions keep 'em coming man

Ready Big Blue?

 

[Endeavor]

How are you guys feeling about the wonderwoman match up? it feelins like its 6-4 WW after the patch. Superman's zoning isnt that much of a threat to her adn she can whiff punish him harder and easier than he can her. No to mention when she is on top of you all her stings are plus so its a bitch and a half to get away or retaliate, and if she take shield and sword stance in the corner it might very well be GGs, any advice or thoughts

 

[xQUANTUMx]

If you have meter don't deal with the frame trap bs. Push block and try to establish space. She out footsies him so you need to make her commit and come to you. Space enough to whiff punish her bc she has lows mids and highs. This, like a lot of his matches is a read based game.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

How are you guys feeling about the wonderwoman match up? it feelins like its 6-4 WW after the patch. Superman's zoning isnt that much of a threat to her adn she can whiff punish him harder and easier than he can her. No to mention when she is on top of you all her stings are plus so its a bitch and a half to get away or retaliate, and if she take shield and sword stance in the corner it might very well be GGs, any advice or thoughts

I agree with what Quantum said above. The match is 5-5. You can change up your laser patterns or "tea bag"(buffer lasers) to bait a Demi Goddess and full combo punish her descent to the ground. This is a match where Superman has to play her game and respect her options. You can't autopilot F23; this has to be reserved for whiff punishing.

 

[Espio]

It is a nightmare. Jb2 helps beat her wakeups and rising grab can take her out of the air (if you make it past the barrage of maces). I save most of my meter for Pushblock bc this bitch likes to press buttons since she's safe on almost everything

@Espio anything to add from your perspective?

I didn't get the alert for this, only reason why I opted to look was because this just got bumped :/.

Superman's jump normals are good for air to air and knocking her out of the air, air dashes can avoid mace tosses.


Superman's zoning covers more angles so he can build meter too and you should learn the max trait time for Hawkgirl (eight seconds) cause it doesn't last forever so you can punish her coming down with various lasers and things. Smart Hawkgirl players mix up when they come out of flight, but you should still keep her trait time in mind in case the Hawkgirl player makes a mistake.

Hawkgirl's post blocked forward 2,3 game is good with down 2, down 1 and mace charge. He used to be able to punish mace charge on block with Super pre-patch, but now he can't so that's a huge help for her in the match up.