What's new

Is Raiden a very limited character?

shoshinsha

Apprentice
What I mean by "limited" is basically "does he have much depth?" I ask because he's always been one of my favorite characters in the series (I grew up loving Marvel's Thor, so Thunder God = win for me as an arcade brat in the 90's). And yet whenever I see him played, even on stream, even by highly skilled players, it's pretty basic stuff. Poke string. Teleport. Air-to-air punch~Superman. Etc.

I'm the kind of player that really likes to find a character that fits my style and then explore them as much as possible. When I play a character like Sub-Zero, I find that I never get bored of dreaming up different ice clone traps and freeze resets. When I mess with Kabal, I enjoy finding all the possible odd angles that a single projectile or nomad dash can be converted into as long a combo as possible. With Raiden, I've got the Vicinity Blast traps down to muscle memory, I know all the spots I can cancel his block strings into teleport, and so on and so forth, but it just seems like I've hit the bottom of the well pretty early on.

So do you guys agree, or am I missing stuff? I hope I am.
 

Lyuben

Sinestro's might!
Well, you could do odd things after a teleport? Its just that the best thing to do is not always to be random and to take risks but to ctrl c and ctrl v until you win. With Raiden that is the case, with Sub-Zero no.
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
Raiden is dangerous, having or not a deep variable gameplay options ..... the fact he has that teleport, that he can do at the first signal of opponent action, only to reappear behind you with enough time and space to crush ya , make him, annoying as hell ......

Did you see Evo match JT Circus x Justin Wong ? JWong was only waiting the first move Circus could do that could put Kano close of Raiden, only to teleport and try Raiden combo, that one that finalizes with Superman flying ...... JWong was trying to bait a first action, to act reaction next ....... Raiden gameplay is based on that : bait and bait until having opportunity to put opponent in the corner and destroy him with those kick combos + Superman ...

If he is limited, I'm not sure, but, his special moves are quick, very quick and very hard to punish on reaction ..... Reo did well against JOP, because he went more or less for an agressive gameplan, where he was baiting JOP to spam that teleport,turn it predictable in order to catch him with jump punches and close combos, but I confess that was a nervous match, with no room for major mistakes there.
 

rotanadan

Mortal
I will say kind of yea you use your staple moves and string a ton. I main him and my inbox is full of "SPAMMER ASSHOLE" etc. I use shock, vb, superman, tele, lightning bolt, b312 and 334, throw and sweeps, more than most people use, but you still get called a spammer cause superman, tele, and b312 are used so much :( .
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
Raiden is dangerous, having or not a deep variable gameplay options ..... the fact he has that teleport, that he can do at the first signal of opponent action, only to reappear behind you with enough time and space to crush ya , make him, annoying as hell ......

Did you see Evo match JT Circus x Justin Wong ? JWong was only waiting the first move Circus could do that could put Kano close of Raiden, only to teleport and try Raiden combo, that one that finalizes with Superman flying ...... JWong was trying to bait a first action, to act reaction next ....... Raiden gameplay is based on that : bait and bait until having opportunity to put opponent in the corner and destroy him with those kick combos + Superman ...

If he is limited, I'm not sure, but, his special moves are quick, very quick and very hard to punish on reaction ..... Reo did well against JOP, because he went more or less for an agressive gameplan, where he was baiting JOP to spam that teleport,turn it predictable in order to catch him with jump punches and close combos, but I confess that was a nervous match, with no room for major mistakes there.
JOP made a fatal mistake at the beginning of the last round, otherwise he probably would have won. Raiden is Mileena's worst match-up (or very close to it). He did Ex-Electric Fly as the first move in the round, which was a huge, huge gamble. Any decent player would have blocked and punished that, much less Reo.
 

shoshinsha

Apprentice
So what would you guys call Raiden's "advanced" tactics? What's the difference between a skilled Raiden player and a decent but slightly scrubby player?
 

colt

Elder God
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Step 1.
run away or stand still if outside of sweep distance.​
Step 2.
if opp does projectile, teleport into 334 faceroll any combo
if any anything else supermanfly.​
Step 3.
repeat to step 1.​


notes:
do not diverge from step 1!​
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
What everyone above me said is pretty solid.

Raiden is a Street Fighter character on crack; he's low on options but they create multi-dimensional mind-games that can demoralize a man to such a degree he may inadvertently give up on the notion of victory.

Like, look at all four DLC characters and Kabal/Cyrax/others, and compare them to Raiden. It's sort of like Swiss army knives vs. an 11" stiletto. They have lots of tools at their disposal, but they all fit specific purposes. Where as Raiden is just one giant blade, but the answer for how you shank a bitch is limited only by your own creativity.
 

Theme

Kombatant
What everyone above me said is pretty solid.

Raiden is a Street Fighter character on crack; he's low on options but they create multi-dimensional mind-games that can demoralize a man to such a degree he may inadvertently give up on the notion of victory.

Like, look at all four DLC characters and Kabal/Cyrax/others, and compare them to Raiden. It's sort of like Swiss army knives vs. an 11" stiletto. They have lots of tools at their disposal, but they all fit specific purposes. Where as Raiden is just one giant blade, but the answer for how you shank a bitch is limited only by your own creativity.
Well said lmao
 

Raidenwins

Raiden Practitioner
What everyone above me said is pretty solid.

Raiden is a Street Fighter character on crack; he's low on options but they create multi-dimensional mind-games that can demoralize a man to such a degree he may inadvertently give up on the notion of victory.

Like, look at all four DLC characters and Kabal/Cyrax/others, and compare them to Raiden. It's sort of like Swiss army knives vs. an 11" stiletto. They have lots of tools at their disposal, but they all fit specific purposes. Where as Raiden is just one giant blade, but the answer for how you shank a bitch is limited only by your own creativity.
You are exactly right in your estimation of Raiden as a character. He has just one giant blade. However, those "genuises" at NRS are about to take that one giant blade away (if the rumors of them nurfing his teleport are true) and thereby rendering Raiden useless, and all just to pander to the complainers on this board and others. Truly sad. They should just leave Raiden alone already. He is fine the way he is.
 

Theme

Kombatant
You are exactly right in your estimation of Raiden as a character. He has just one giant blade. However, those "genuises" at NRS are about to take that one giant blade away (if the rumors of them nurfing his teleport are true) and thereby rendering Raiden useless, and all just to pander to the complainers on this board and others. Truly sad. They should just leave Raiden alone already. He is fine the way he is.
I dont know... I play Raiden, hes a hard character to fight against and honestly, easy to play. You cannot pressure him in the least. Hes got the two fastest specials in the game already... His teleport renders all pressure useless, and can in turn, point the pressure back on his opponent with an easy ass input of down up. His combos are ridiculously strong too.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
The teleport simply can't be nerfed. If it recovers any slower it will 1) fuck up his combos, 2) make it unnecessarily difficult to punish anything except projectiles with the slowest recovery. If it's made so it can be stuffed, then the character as a whole is useless because he has no way to counter the fact the two strings his game is based entirely around can be interrupted.

I dont know... I play Raiden, hes a hard character to fight against and honestly, easy to play. You cannot pressure him in the least. Hes got the two fastest specials in the game already... His teleport renders all pressure useless, and can in turn, point the pressure back on his opponent with an easy ass input of down up. His combos are ridiculously strong too.
I reject the notion that Raiden is easy to play. If you win with Raiden it's because you're good with Raiden. It's an entirely psychological thing. The teleport is one of two good tools he has at his disposal, and honestly, on paper it sucks. The entire cast can punish it cleanly. You don't even have to expect it, you just have to not be blocking when he teleports. Why is that so hard? Because Raiden users play with your head to make it so. You can't ask for nerfs to a character based on the fact you get caught in the mind game.

Teleport does render all pressure useless. Pressure is not the way you fight Raiden. Fighting Raiden is all about not doing stupid shit like getting in his face when you know that teleport is there. You know how Smoke is far and away the best anti-zoner in the game? Look at Raiden as the best anti-rushdown character in the game. Going after him is a sure-fire way to get raped. Raiden's answer for handling a neutral situation is "derp," when he can't get anything started because you're not trying to rush that shit down or zone that shit out.

The issue boils down to this. Say you're playing Not-Raiden against an opponent who is playing Raiden. In that situation, you're playing Mortal Kombat 9, but your opponent is just playing Raiden. It's technically the same game, but at the same time, not really. Raiden has to play his own game to get anything going, and if you approach the fight with more a Street Fighter-esque LOL FOOTSIES mindset, you do much better. But if teleport is going unpunished because you're getting up in his grill or won't let go of block because you fear naked superman, then yeah: fight over, Raiden wins. Also, if you read a teleport, you can jump it and get JiP into full combo. Considering Raiden's options, reading teleport isn't hard.

Raiden requires set ups. The character doesn't give you those, the player does that himself. There's a line between asking for a balance adjustment and asking for a character to not be able to do a damn thing to you that is both crossed and shit on every time somebody says it would be a good idea to nerf Raiden's teleport. Nerfing teleport would be as disastrous for Raiden as taking away the launching properties on spin would be for Kung Lao.

You might want that teleport nerfed, but if you've ever fought anyone who isn't worthless and will actually interrupt :l:fk:fp:bp / :fk:fk:bk, you know how vital it is that it remain the same.

I mean, fucking seriously people, Raiden is a character whose entire game plan revolves around doing unsafe shit. Let's look at this:

Teleport - Uninterruptible start-up, -12 after reappearance. Unsafe.
Superman - Good on hit, if it hits. -∞ on block.
:fk:fk:bk - Last hit can be interrupted with armor/attacks six frames or faster. Is completely stomped by uppercut if read. Safe, but disadvantage on block.
:l:fk:fp:bp - Dick slow start up, last two hits can be interrupted with armor/attacks six frames or faster. Safe, but disadvantage on block.
:r:bp:bk - A good defensive tool, uninterruptible. +1 on block. Holy shit a good string.

I left out the vicinity blast stuff because that's a no-go after this coming patch.

Raiden is good, but there is NOTHING to him right now that is nerf worthy, aside from the vicinity blast shit which is being handled.
 

Altaire

Warrior
And now, the Raiden complaint form! Would you like to file a complaint against Raiden?

Yes? Okay. First off, we'd like to ask you about the circumstances surrounding your complaint. Was your altercation with Raiden online, or offline?

...Online? Sorry, your request cannot be processed at this time. Please try again later.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
And now, the Raiden complaint form! Would you like to file a complaint against Raiden?

Yes? Okay. First off, we'd like to ask you about the circumstances surrounding your complaint. Was your altercation with Raiden online, or offline?

...Online? Sorry, your request cannot be processed at this time. Please try again later.
And you know what I think is funny? Raiden is fucked for online play. It benefits him as much as it fucks him, anyway. Teleport and superman shenanigans all day, but good luck connecting his links in lag.

:fk:fk:bk - Last hit can be interrupted with armor/attacks six frames or faster. Is completely stomped by uppercut if read. Safe, but disadvantage on block.
I'll add to this that the string also gets fuckraped by :d:fk / :d:bk.
 
You are exactly right in your estimation of Raiden as a character. He has just one giant blade. However, those "genuises" at NRS are about to take that one giant blade away (if the rumors of them nurfing his teleport are true) and thereby rendering Raiden useless, and all just to pander to the complainers on this board and others. Truly sad. They should just leave Raiden alone already. He is fine the way he is.
lol, just lol..
they should take this shit char from the game, rly, flowchart raidens let this game looks like a piece of crap, i dont mean mk fanboys of corse..
fucking raiden players actually dont even need to watch the screen while playing, lmao, just put ur flowchart, thats it!
 

Theme

Kombatant
lol, just lol..
they should take this shit char from the game, rly, flowchart raidens let this game looks like a piece of crap, i dont mean mk fanboys of corse..
fucking raiden players actually dont even need to watch the screen while playing, lmao, just put ur flowchart, thats it!
Lol hes easy to play, IMO, but to make such a claim is retarded. Stop trolling.
 
Lol hes easy to play, IMO, but to make such a claim is retarded. Stop trolling.
:D
ok, i got a question 4 u, real talk:

if an KoF, ssf4 or BlazBlue player would try mk9, and then meet some typical online raiden, what u think the impression would be?

ok, mk is mk i know :D
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
:D
ok, i got a question 4 u, real talk:

if an KoF, ssf4 or BlazBlue player would try mk9, and then meet some typical online raiden, what u think the impression would be?

ok, mk is mk i know :D
On one hand, you're right. On the other hand, who gives a shit?

If a KoF/SSFIV/BlazBlue player decides to try this game's online component and has any sense, they'd realize that it sucks and move on long before a Raiden player even shows up. And as someone who has played all of those games pretty extensively I can say safely that 1) those games have things that are way worse than Raiden and 2) cut/paste 1 for emphasis.
 

shoshinsha

Apprentice
I'm confused. Is the question whether Raiden is easy to play from an execution standpoint? Because obviously that's pretty true. But my question would be, "So what?" What does execution have to do with anything? It's muscle memory. Any monkey with enough time can repeat button inputs until they become committed to muscle memory. That's like the most basic of basic things in fighting games. Making a big deal of the ability to execute moves or combos is like making a big deal about learning to walk. The real skill only starts AFTER that, with the mental game, and Raiden is definitely a character with a lot of depth to his mind games.

Or he is offline, when played at a high level. If you're talking about scrubs and/or online play... well... why would you bother?
 

BookBurning

Voidwards
Anyone who thinks that their character in Mortal Kombat has high execution is an idiot. I don't really need to explain why because it should be obvious; so don't worry about them.

With that being said. No, I don't believe Raiden is any more shallow than other characters out there; the problem is that in actuality, hardly anyone plays Raiden well, especially online. I mean, there's alot of people who play him online but 90 percent of them just love to teleport, grab you and Superman like they have muscular sclerosis and can't help it, so that's normally why he appears 1 dimensional.

Keep playing as him and ignore the people who complain because they can't block supermans. Oh, and not being able to punish teleport online? Tell them to deal with it. If they expect you to not use teleports simply because it's online then they should quite this game right now.
 

Vilén

too smart to play MKX
Anyone who thinks that their character in Mortal Kombat has high execution is an idiot. I don't really need to explain why because it should be obvious; so don't worry about them.
The vestiges of my soul that still clamor for a new Guilty Gear game LOL'd so hard.
 

Deadly Torcher

King Dingaling
When you play some1's main online & beat them, 99% of the time, they will go to Raiden as an alt cos hes easy to use, just to try & get the win. If they lose that match, they will quit. Very rarely you will come up against a good Raiden & even thats gonna be a dull match (win or lose), cos its gonna be teleport, block string, another teleport, block string, grab. I just think it depends on how seriously you take online, if you take it seriously & want to win every match then by all means play boringly.