Match-up Discussion KILLER FROST - Official Community Match-Up Discussion

[AK cyusstrike]

Sup KF community I have recent footage from a local AK event Ill post here for your opinions and critiques. Enjoy

Cyusstrike (kf) vs Blackula (GL)

Cyusstrike (kf) vs Saltface (Har)

Tips also appreciated

 

[Rickyraws]

AK cyusstrike
VS Blackula: Lol, could you hear Pig's commentary while you were playing?

Pretty solid play, and you did a good job keeping Blackula at bay when the time was running out. However you reaaaaally reaaaally need to be parrying his b13s. Machine gun CAN be uppercutted at certain range, but if you were going to try to hit him out of it, a slide works more consistently. Against a good GL, when they realize you'll parry their b13, they'll either b1 followed by another b1 (which is punishable) b1 into rockets (which is punishable) or b12 in an attempt to throw off your parry timing (which does not work). Or at the very least you can dash after b1 to reset the situation.

You missed out on decent damage anti airing with daggers by not following up with iceberg/ iceberg mbxxiceberg. When you're full screen and zoning with daggers, you'll make back the meter anyway, and GL KF can turn into a life lead based match at times.

Air turbine NEVER works, and GLs to this date have not learned. There are a lot of ways to punish air turbine for GLs who wish to close the space quickly due to his bad mobility, but air turbine is VERY VERY bad, however Green Lantern players know most people let them get away with it, so they keep using it. After a blocked jump attack, most GLs like to f3 because they expect you to block the follow up free b1 check. You got hit by this a couple of times. You can block to get them to mix it up with jump attack into b1 or anticipate it and parry the f3 for a 41% punish. Literally every Green Lantern that has won a tournament that I've played has attempted this and stop once I show that it won't work. This way, you know they have the option, but they also know YOU have options as well, and must adjust accordingly.

While everyone drops combos, sometimes if you don't feel your MBF3 was done at a time/range for the follow up u3 to hit (or you suspect you'll simply jump instead of the u3 coming out) play it safe and slide instead of u3 to continue the combo and have the potential mbf3 damage boost offset whatever damage you would have lost if you are unaware of optimized slide combos.

VS SaltFace
I've noticed sometimes you're starting the vortex with j1, is there any reason for this? J1 leaves the opponent neutral, that's why the Cyrax reset works. If you're going for the vortex, j2 is incredibly + so that they have to respect your 50/50. Against Harley, always make note of her meter. No reason for Saltface to NOT mb the air guns when it was effectively working. A couple missed whiff punish attempts and a few scouted slides here and there but other than that, you'll played it well enough. From fullscreen, simply ducking makes Harley unable to touch you. She can mb cupcakes which are hella plus, but you can get around that. I think it simply boils down to patience and learning how to get around Saltface's brand of zoning. I've only played him once, so I don't want to give specifics based on what was working out for me in that one match.

 

[The_Furax]

Hawkgirl vs Killer Frost is 8-2 Hawkgirl........if you don't know how to play the MU.

HG KF is even as fuck. Trust me, I know. I've lost to more Jokers and Shazams than Hawkgirls. If you play patiently, and take Hawkgirl into the lab to see what you CAN and CAN'T do, you'll realize that you (as Killer Frost) can actually make more mistakes in the MU than Hawkgirl, who may get vortexed to oblivion after one wrong turn in Frostville.


Sure.

Man, I think you got it wrong. I was talking about the MU against HQ (Harley Quinn), not Hawkgirl. By the way, Hawkgirl is really fucking annoying to face off. That trait pisses everyone off. But as you said, in this MU you need to be patient and abuse the vortexes as much as possible.

 

[Rickyraws]

Man, I think you got it wrong. I was talking about the MU against HQ (Harley Quinn), not Hawkgirl. By the way, Hawkgirl is really fucking annoying to face off. That trait pisses everyone off. But as you said, in this MU you need to be patient and abuse the vortexes as much as possible.

......oh.......I um.....I see....

 

[@MylesWright_]

But as you said, in this MU you need to be patient and abuse the vortexes as much as possible.

Be patient as well attempt to parry/d2 out of her pressure, but you know when people thought killer frost didn't have an advantage against Hawkgirl other players who don't use her were suddenly putting the community on blast. Test Your Might

 

[The_Furax]

Be patient as well attempt to parry/d2 out of her pressure, but you know when people thought killer frost didn't have an advantage against Hawkgirl other players who don't use her were suddenly putting the community on blast. Test Your Might

For sure.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I don't think Zatanna loses to frost anymore

 

[Rickyraws]

I don't think Zatanna loses to frost anymore

Porque?

 

[@MylesWright_]

I don't think Zatanna loses to frost anymore

So I was right, again..

 

[xKhaoTik]

Porque?

@Mr. Mileena might be able to back my claim.


First off, levitate is a HUGE problem in this match. It complete shuts frost down. If we throw a dagger, she can teleport. The only time we can actually punish the levitate is if she right above us for an AA. Other than that, levitate/tele shenanigans are a huge pain.

Secondly, the zoning. Both players are good at zoning each other out, but idk man, I have trouble against a good zoning zatanna(Mr mileena). Yes, the rings start up in 30+ frames which means we can spike it, but we still trade and zatanna wins because the second hit of spike won't even come out. She also has the ability to control the zoning, which frost doesn't. Jumping is out of the question because she can just throw the ring up, hit us, and convert into trance for the reset and mixup. Her pseudo frame trap with full screen ring into trance on block is annoying too, but luckily frost can punish that. MB rings are a nuisance too. Yes frost can throw the zoning off with spike and whatnot but a well timed tele, especially a MB one can really hurt frost.


Zatanna's trait is also not as useless as you may think in this match. She can set you up for it very well and there isn't much frost can do about it once zatanna gets going, especially upclose with that armored lightning cage.


Frost does win upclose tho, so that's not really a problem.


I could just be emo. I play this MU with Mr.mil ALOT and I used to do very well against him, but now its really really hard to keep up. He is the better player but I also feel like I shouldn't be having this much trouble in a "winnable" MU. No other zatanna gives me trouble but his.

 

[xKhaoTik]

But for right now, I'm gonna keep it as 6-4 frost solely due to the fact that zatanna is pretty gimmicky but frost can blow it up. The meterless vortex also hurts zatanna too. But I would not argue 5-5

 

[Rickyraws]

@Mr. Mileena might be able to back my claim.


First off, levitate is a HUGE problem in this match. It complete shuts frost down. If we throw a dagger, she can teleport. The only time we can actually punish the levitate is if she right above us for an AA. Other than that, levitate/tele shenanigans are a huge pain.

Secondly, the zoning. Both players are good at zoning each other out, but idk man, I have trouble against a good zoning zatanna(Mr mileena). Yes, the rings start up in 30+ frames which means we can spike it, but we still trade and zatanna wins because the second hit of spike won't even come out. She also has the ability to control the zoning, which frost doesn't. Jumping is out of the question because she can just throw the ring up, hit us, and convert into trance for the reset and mixup. Her pseudo frame trap with full screen ring into trance on block is annoying too, but luckily frost can punish that. MB rings are a nuisance too. Yes frost can throw the zoning off with spike and whatnot but a well timed tele, especially a MB one can really hurt frost.


Zatanna's trait is also not as useless as you may think in this match. She can set you up for it very well and there isn't much frost can do about it once zatanna gets going, especially upclose with that armored lightning cage.


Frost does win upclose tho, so that's not really a problem.


I could just be emo. I play this MU with Mr.mil ALOT and I used to do very well against him, but now its really really hard to keep up. He is the better player but I also feel like I shouldn't be having this much trouble in a "winnable" MU. No other zatanna gives me trouble but his.

Interesting. I wouldn't really know either way outside of theorycrafting. I haven't played many Zatannas, as I'm sure the rest of the injustice populace will attest to. I've played Deg, but it was hardly enough times to come up with a conclusion.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

@Mr. Mileena might be able to back my claim.


First off, levitate is a HUGE problem in this match. It complete shuts frost down. If we throw a dagger, she can teleport. The only time we can actually punish the levitate is if she right above us for an AA. Other than that, levitate/tele shenanigans are a huge pain.

Secondly, the zoning. Both players are good at zoning each other out, but idk man, I have trouble against a good zoning zatanna(Mr mileena). Yes, the rings start up in 30+ frames which means we can spike it, but we still trade and zatanna wins because the second hit of spike won't even come out. She also has the ability to control the zoning, which frost doesn't. Jumping is out of the question because she can just throw the ring up, hit us, and convert into trance for the reset and mixup. Her pseudo frame trap with full screen ring into trance on block is annoying too, but luckily frost can punish that. MB rings are a nuisance too. Yes frost can throw the zoning off with spike and whatnot but a well timed tele, especially a MB one can really hurt frost.


Zatanna's trait is also not as useless as you may think in this match. She can set you up for it very well and there isn't much frost can do about it once zatanna gets going, especially upclose with that armored lightning cage.


Frost does win upclose tho, so that's not really a problem.


I could just be emo. I play this MU with Mr.mil ALOT and I used to do very well against him, but now its really really hard to keep up. He is the better player but I also feel like I shouldn't be having this much trouble in a "winnable" MU. No other zatanna gives me trouble but his.

Pretty much sums it up but you left out Zatanna's corner game.
Killer Frost is one of many vulnerable to Zatanna's trait corner pressure since she has no multi hitting wake up or teleport.

This is one MU to watch out for. I'm keeping it 6-4 frost as well, but this needs to be tested heavily, preferably offline too

 

[RiBBz22]

I don't think Zatanna loses to frost anymore

@Mr. Mileena might be able to back my claim.


First off, levitate is a HUGE problem in this match. It complete shuts frost down. If we throw a dagger, she can teleport. The only time we can actually punish the levitate is if she right above us for an AA. Other than that, levitate/tele shenanigans are a huge pain.

Secondly, the zoning. Both players are good at zoning each other out, but idk man, I have trouble against a good zoning zatanna(Mr mileena). Yes, the rings start up in 30+ frames which means we can spike it, but we still trade and zatanna wins because the second hit of spike won't even come out. She also has the ability to control the zoning, which frost doesn't. Jumping is out of the question because she can just throw the ring up, hit us, and convert into trance for the reset and mixup. Her pseudo frame trap with full screen ring into trance on block is annoying too, but luckily frost can punish that. MB rings are a nuisance too. Yes frost can throw the zoning off with spike and whatnot but a well timed tele, especially a MB one can really hurt frost.


Zatanna's trait is also not as useless as you may think in this match. She can set you up for it very well and there isn't much frost can do about it once zatanna gets going, especially upclose with that armored lightning cage.


Frost does win upclose tho, so that's not really a problem.


I could just be emo. I play this MU with Mr.mil ALOT and I used to do very well against him, but now its really really hard to keep up. He is the better player but I also feel like I shouldn't be having this much trouble in a "winnable" MU. No other zatanna gives me trouble but his.

Yeah I played a few sets against Mr Mileena and it is tough against him he has really leveled her up. I need to learn the MU a lot better though, I don't feel comfortable enough in it against top Zatanna players since they know how to use so many tools that others don't and I am just not used to it yet.

 

[Rickyraws]

Pretty much sums it up but you left out Zatanna's corner game.
Killer Frost is one of many vulnerable to Zatanna's trait corner pressure since she has no multi hitting wake up or teleport.

Hey, you're from Canada aren't you!? You want me to find your IP address?! I can turn off your connection from here. He thinks he's good at this game but he's just spamming the same shit

 

[@MylesWright_]

I state something only to be flamed and it confirmed true at a later date yet I'm the troll?
I am sole the voice of the Killer Frost community seen as no one seems to know what they're talking about and probably still have Bane as losing 7-3 to Frost for reasons such as 'big punishes on debuff' and 'slide is invincible on wakeup'

 

[M2Dave]

Secondly, the zoning. Both players are good at zoning each other out, but idk man, I have trouble against a good zoning zatanna(Mr mileena). Yes, the rings start up in 30+ frames which means we can spike it, but we still trade and zatanna wins because the second hit of spike won't even come out. She also has the ability to control the zoning, which frost doesn't. Jumping is out of the question because she can just throw the ring up, hit us, and convert into trance for the reset and mixup. Her pseudo frame trap with full screen ring into trance on block is annoying too, but luckily frost can punish that. MB rings are a nuisance too. Yes frost can throw the zoning off with spike and whatnot but a well timed tele, especially a MB one can really hurt frost.

Blocked hat toss / trance is a gimmick. You can forward dash trance after blocking a hat toss at any range, but blocked MB hat toss / trance is a true block string and identical to Freddy's glove toss / far spike. The point is if Zod can close the gap on Zatanna, Killer Frost can do so too. You have a full screen tracking special move. I can see how levitate can be troublesome, though.

The problem for me are the mix ups. I have no idea what the options are. Record your matches the next time you play. I want to replicate these mix ups in practice mode, so I learn how to block.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Blocked hat toss / trance is a gimmick. You can forward dash trance after blocking a hat toss at any range, but blocked MB hat toss / trance is a true block string and identical to Freddy's glove toss / far spike. The point is if Zod can close the gap on Zatanna, Killer Frost can do so too. You have a full screen tracking special move. I can see how levitate can be troublesome, though.

The problem for me are the mix ups. I have no idea what the options are. Record your matches the next time you play. I want to replicate these mix ups in practice mode, so I learn how to block.

b1u2 (low, mid) ( @Mr. Mileena is that the string? the slow low starter?)
b21 (OH, low)
3 low kicks
3 mb ring
11d3 into oh crossup f3 off HKD or delayed into a normal f3 (go test this, its odd)
After trance 2 levi 2 vs 2 no levi instant jump over 1 crosses up

 

[M2Dave]

b1u2 (low, mid) ( @Mr. Mileena is that the string? the slow low starter?)
b21 (OH, low)
3 low kicks
3 mb ring
11d3 into oh crossup f3 off HKD or delayed into a normal f3 (go test this, its odd)
After trance 2 levi 2 vs 2 no levi instant jump over 1 crosses up

b+1,u+3 is the low starting launcher. +1 on block with push back.

b+2,1 is -11 and b+2,3 is -9. The Zatanna player could do b+2 xx MB Kicks to stay safe, I guess.

I cannot replicate "2 no levitate instant jump over 1". Are you certain that is the set up?

 

[xKhaoTik]

CW is absolutely free to frost when she is knocked down. Waking up is out of the question lol. Not even trait saves her.

 

[Sultan]

Some tech in the B.Adam MU: IAD (forward or back) recovers more quickly than a neutral/forward/back jump. If you react to lightning with IAD instead of a jump then you have more time to react and punish with an iceberg. Note, a forward IAD will get blown up by ex lightning.

And on the topic of iceberg, if you ex iceberg a character like BA or MMH (characters you want to move in on) from full screen or so then it's wiser to dash in and iceberg to cover more space and close in on the opponent. Ex iceberg, dash, iceberg, dash... will bring you as close as the starting distance in a match from full screen.

 

[Pan1cMode]

b+1,u+3 is the low starting launcher. +1 on block with push back.

b+2,1 is -11 and b+2,3 is -9. The Zatanna player could do b+2 xx MB Kicks to stay safe, I guess.

I cannot replicate "2 no levitate instant jump over 1". Are you certain that is the set up?

Yes, you have to hit the j2 quite low and go for a j1 into cross up 112/u3.


Also guys, I can't see how BG vs. KF isn't a 5-5. I main both these characters and have quite a bit of practice in the MU vs. a very good Frost and BG.

 

[Sultan]

New tech in the MMH MU?
Full screen MB iceberg, dash, slide... combos/converts against him. I'm testing the rest of the cast but so far this is the only character specific option I've found. Is so excite

Edit: Raven and MMH are the only characters that you can hit with full screen MB freeze, dash forward, slide...

 

[16 Bit]

CW is absolutely free to frost when she is knocked down. Waking up is out of the question lol. Not even trait saves her.

What are you doing against trait?

 

[xKhaoTik]

What are you doing against trait?

Jumping. It completely whiffs.