Match-up Discussion KILLER FROST - Official Community Match-Up Discussion

[RM Truth]

Jumping. It completely whiffs.

Isn't that something that everyone in the cast can take advantage of?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Isn't that something that everyone in the cast can take advantage of?

Idk. Can They? I just know this makes KF's meterless vortex even scarier in this MU.

I was doing it against starcharger and he couldn't wake up at all.

 

[RM Truth]

Idk. Can They? I just know this makes KF's meterless vortex even scarier in this MU.

I was doing it against starcharger and he couldn't wake up at all.

Yeah, 16 Bit can vouch. Any character in this game can neutral jump to punish the trait, and stuffing her wakeups isn't character specific either. Anyone can do it as long as you know the timing. This is a point that the GGA guys stress a lot when this issue comes up.

 

[16 Bit]

Yeah, anyone can neutral jump her wakeup trait. Depending on the situation it means she can do wakeup MB Cat Dash to blow it up. It'll go past then come back around and anti-air. Or she can get up in other ways. At least with trait in stock KF has something to respect.

Without trait it has to be a nightmare. I haven't looked into it since I never play the MU but I'm guessing KF can time f+3 and b+1/slide and beat even delayed wakeups.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Yeah, anyone can neutral jump her wakeup trait. Depending on the situation it means she can do wakeup MB Cat Dash to blow it up. It'll go past then come back around and anti-air. Or she can get up in other ways. At least with trait in stock KF has something to respect.

Without trait it has to be a nightmare. I haven't looked into it since I never play the MU but I'm guessing KF can time f+3 and b+1/slide and beat even delayed wakeups.

Correct. It's bad. I felt bad everytime I knocked star down lol. He never did the MB cat dash tho.

 

[16 Bit]

I deal with it all the time against most of the cast.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Me against starcharger. I think I played it pretty well but I'm open for suggestions.

@GGA 16 Bit
@RunwayMafia (especially you)
@Rickyraws
@Other frost players

 

[RunwayMafia]

Me against starcharger. I think I played it pretty well but I'm open for suggestions.

@GGA 16 Bit
@RunwayMafia (especially you)
@Rickyraws
@Other frost players

Awesome. Let me drink some coffee (I slept in SUPER LATE) and I'll chime in.

 

[16 Bit]

I've been watching all the Starcharger videos. He's good.

GTFOH with asking for suggestions on how to beat Selina lol.

 

[Cabronium]

Can someone list off why Frost losses to Martian for me?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Completely shuts her down from afar. Daggers get teleported on reaction, spike gets punished by pillar (spike doesn't punish pillar), and orbs stop advancement (Same with pillar and sky projectile thing). Basically, he zones her pretty good and she can't use her counterzoning in this MU.


But once frost gets in, she wins because her defense is better than his offense. Alot of his stuff gets parried, punished or interrupted.


I personally think he beats frost. REO thinks it's even. I believe @HazeJupiter thinks he wins too


I can try to record matches with Jupiter. We literally went back and forth for a long time last time we played, but I feel like I have to do much more work than he does.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Blocked hat toss / trance is a gimmick. You can forward dash trance after blocking a hat toss at any range, but blocked MB hat toss / trance is a true block string and identical to Freddy's glove toss / far spike. The point is if Zod can close the gap on Zatanna, Killer Frost can do so too. You have a full screen tracking special move. I can see how levitate can be troublesome, though.

The problem for me are the mix ups. I have no idea what the options are. Record your matches the next time you play. I want to replicate these mix ups in practice mode, so I learn how to block.

Yes, Dave is right.
People are starting to figure that out now, but I ex teleport to them to punish their forward dash into combo.
The thing with Zatanna is, she has a TON of mixups and a ton of options so she is literally a ticking bomb to fight against. She is very gimmicky, but she has so many, and most work, that they add up and are overwhelming to deal with.
Or, zatanna can teleport away after a blocked ring, to keep the gap somewhat distant.

 

[RiBBz22]

I think I am going to change the BG MU to a 5-5. Any debate here?

 

[Cabronium]

Completely shuts her down from afar. Daggers get teleported on reaction, spike gets punished by pillar (spike doesn't punish pillar), and orbs stop advancement (Same with pillar and sky projectile thing). Basically, he zones her pretty good and she can't use her counterzoning in this MU.


But once frost gets in, she wins because her defense is better than his offense. Alot of his stuff gets parried, punished or interrupted.


I personally think he beats frost. REO thinks it's even. I believe @HazeJupiter thinks he wins too


I can try to record matches with Jupiter. We literally went back and forth for a long time last time we played, but I feel like I have to do much more work than he does.

I agree her defense is better than his offense. Yeah you should record those matches!

 

[RunwayMafia]

Me against starcharger. I think I played it pretty well but I'm open for suggestions.

@GGA 16 Bit
@RunwayMafia (especially you)
@Rickyraws
@Other frost players

Just watched your set in it's entirety and here are my exact notes that I took.
1st match: Great parry at the opening of the round. I noticed some odd combo choices (I believe a landed slide into 22~daggers mid round)

2nd match: Better zoning. I am a little iffy about zoning against good CW players due to MB Cat Dash and her jump 2. If she doesn't have meter, I like to fill the screen with daggers and ice.

3rd match: You landed a perfect MB F3 as kind of an AA when he decided to jump forward 2. This is something I do A LOT in the MU because all CW players love to jump in on KF and at the perfect range...I always land the MB F3. You also landed a few good D2's which is something I'm almost too scared to do against CW. Props.

4th match: You had a good rhythm going. Against CW, the meterless vortex (3 U3's) is huge because B1/Slide STUFFS both Cat Claws and Cat Dash. Even a well timed F3 (like slightly delayed) will stuff her wake ups.

All in all I just try to keep CW away from me or I try to get her completely bogged down in the vortex. He's a great CW and you clearly handled your own. She's obviously a huge momentum rider so she can wipe away your life rather quickly. Good set.

 

[Konqrr]

I no longer think that Frost beats Grundy. I'm not saying this because I loathe the character either, but all of his pokes outrange hers, her daggers and iceberg are useless and once he corners her, it's over unless she guesses her way out.

This is the match I've played far and away the most in the game offline and it's rough. She's good to go when she lands a hit though, but getting it is ridiculously hard against a good Grundy.

When I play against other characters not named Batman, I don't have nearly the hard time that I do against Grundy.

 

[RiBBz22]

I no longer think that Frost beats Grundy. I'm not saying this because I loathe the character either, but all of his pokes outrange hers, her daggers and iceberg are useless and once he corners her, it's over unless she guesses her way out.

This is the match I've played far and away the most in the game offline and it's rough. She's good to go when she lands a hit though, but getting it is ridiculously hard against a good Grundy.

When I play against other characters not named Batman, I don't have nearly the hard time that I do against Grundy.

I think Frost has a slight advantage in this MU she has good ways around WC, but what makes the biggest impact to me is how you are able to somewhat play footsies (slidesies) with him when trying to bait out his strings you can whiff punish with slide. Smaller stages that favor power characters can definitely have an impact though.

 

[Rickyraws]

I think I am going to change the BG MU to a 5-5. Any debate here?

Porque?

 

[RiBBz22]

Porque?

I just main both characters and I have been playing a lot of online Frost's lately with her. Feels pretty even to me to be honest. Inside of slide range BG really doesn't have to worry much about iceberg since whiffing that move is death. BG can kind of wait out any slides that come in slidesies range and back jump to punish on reaction (from larger distances). BG always has meter to play with. I think Batgirl's corner game is better than Frost's, and most of her combos have hella corner push. It is more just a feeling I guess, I just wanted to see if anyone had some good arguments why it isn't even.

 

[Madog32]

I just main both characters and I have been playing a lot of online Frost's lately with her. Feels pretty even to me to be honest. Inside of slide range BG really doesn't have to worry much about iceberg since whiffing that move is death. BG can kind of wait out any slides that come in slidesies range and back jump to punish on reaction (from larger distances). BG always has meter to play with. I think Batgirl's corner game is better than Frost's, and most of her combos have hella corner push. It is more just a feeling I guess, I just wanted to see if anyone had some good arguments why it isn't even.

I'd agree

-I think BG definitely has the advantage in the corner - and she can get you there very easily
-She almost always has meter to burn
-She can react to daggers and punish pretty badly if you're not careful about where/when you use them (also punishes iceberg badly on whiff pretty easily)

And since most of my experience with her is online, its also quite frustrating to not consistently punish her tele, even though I know I can. I often miss the punish and get punished myself. However, I actually really like this matchup. I think it's a fun fight. Definitely fair.

 

[Rickyraws]

I just main both characters and I have been playing a lot of online Frost's lately with her. Feels pretty even to me to be honest. Inside of slide range BG really doesn't have to worry much about iceberg since whiffing that move is death. BG can kind of wait out any slides that come in slidesies range and back jump to punish on reaction (from larger distances). BG always has meter to play with. I think Batgirl's corner game is better than Frost's, and most of her combos have hella corner push. It is more just a feeling I guess, I just wanted to see if anyone had some good arguments why it isn't even.

I've always figured it was even, but the more Batgirls I play the more they tell me it's in Frost's favor. I don't REAAAALLY see why, but I wouldn't know so I don't speak against or for. Astronout is another Batgirl who also plays Frost. He also believes it is in Frost's favor, though I don't know if he still feels this way/it was due to the way I played the MU...

 

[RiBBz22]

I've always figured it was even, but the more Batgirls I play the more they tell me it's in Frost's favor. I don't REAAAALLY see why, but I wouldn't know so I don't speak against or for. Astronout is another Batgirl who also plays Frost. He also believes it is in Frost's favor, though I don't know if he still feels this way/it was due to the way I played the MU...

Honestly, I haven't ever had a problem playing the MU with Batgirl and felt at disadvantage so I always had it at 5-5. Back in the last patch when Batgirl's D1 was fixed so you could parry it with Frost, I thought that shifted the MU over to Frost because I would abuse the hell out of that back when I played the MU early on...So I thought it was just a huge thing to lose. Now I just think saying it is even makes the most sense. Both characters can play their game without having many options shut down.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I think frost beats bg

 

[Konqrr]

I think Frost has a slight advantage in this MU she has good ways around WC, but what makes the biggest impact to me is how you are able to somewhat play footsies (slidesies) with him when trying to bait out his strings you can whiff punish with slide. Smaller stages that favor power characters can definitely have an impact though.

How are going to get damage? Once he knocks you down he has a huge advantage. On a read, he can use WC to punish pushblock. Slide is literally her only footsie tool because he outranges her in every other way. It's rough.

 

[RiBBz22]

I think frost beats bg

What do you think gives BG the most problems? The thing I like the most playing Frost is that her parry makes the BG player respect her on wakeup a lot more unlike a lot of the cast.