"Believe in magic yet?" - Zatanna Match-Up Discussion thread

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

deg222
AspyxiaDyslexia-
Mr. Mileena

Killer Frost troubles my Zatanna, it feels impossible to zone, theres no possibility for trait usage and i get murdered up closed and out footsied.. What can i do to change this more in my favor? This seems like a 7-3 so i play NW against her just to make it 6-4..

Same with Green Lantern, i see a few of these list have this as a winning match up, but its one i seem to have trouble with. Ive been playing Zatanna to cover up my bad match ups for nightwing, and she does a great job at that, just seems these 2 matches i have the most trouble with. Any help?

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Also, I FIRMLY believe that Zatanna Nightwing is 6-4 or MORE in Zatannas favor, Ive ran a few sets with very skilled nightwing players and pretty much had the upperhand. As a nightwing player, i dont see nightwing winning this match up in the slightest. I think she beats batman as well if she can get away. Trait bats have 0 block advantage so reversal teleport gets me outta shit pretty often.

 

[deg222]

Same with Green Lantern, i see a few of these list have this as a winning match up, but its one i seem to have trouble with. Ive been playing Zatanna to cover up my bad match ups for nightwing, and she does a great job at that, just seems these 2 matches i have the most trouble with. Any help?

I dunno much about KF, so I can't help you there

The only chance GL has is at the beginning of the match. Once you're able to escape to fullscreen, you can get so much chip and damage from zoning, that's why it's a 7-3 MU. To make matters worst, if we're able to clash, he's back to fullscreen eating more chip and more damage. And then, our trait is so good in the MU. You're goal in trait is to make sure you get a ton of meter before it wears off, don't worry about trying to chip him away with shots. Absorbing any projectiles of his gives us like 1/3 of a bar, it's ridiculous lol. Once trait is gone, you can spam MB ring tosses again and keep him out.

Also, I FIRMLY believe that Zatanna Nightwing is 6-4 or MORE in Zatannas favor, Ive ran a few sets with very skilled nightwing players and pretty much had the upperhand. As a nightwing player, i dont see nightwing winning this match up in the slightest. I think she beats batman as well if she can get away. Trait bats have 0 block advantage so reversal teleport gets me outta shit pretty often.

I dunno much about the NW MU.

Batman is as even as can be, if you're getting away with teleporting, Batman isn't using his spear to grab you out of it. The MU pretty much goes, if you're in trait it's 6-4 Zatanna, and if not it's 6-4 Batman. He gets to control a lot of the screen between spears and bats but it's not dominating. Once we get our trait out at fullscreen, he's going to eat at least 15% chip and we get 1 bar of meter gained. One of the few MUs where we get to use our MB fireball for zoning too.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

deg222
AspyxiaDyslexia-
Mr. Mileena

Killer Frost troubles my Zatanna, it feels impossible to zone, theres no possibility for trait usage and i get murdered up closed and out footsied.. What can i do to change this more in my favor? This seems like a 7-3 so i play NW against her just to make it 6-4..

Same with Green Lantern, i see a few of these list have this as a winning match up, but its one i seem to have trouble with. Ive been playing Zatanna to cover up my bad match ups for nightwing, and she does a great job at that, just seems these 2 matches i have the most trouble with. Any help?

-------

Also, I FIRMLY believe that Zatanna Nightwing is 6-4 or MORE in Zatannas favor, Ive ran a few sets with very skilled nightwing players and pretty much had the upperhand. As a nightwing player, i dont see nightwing winning this match up in the slightest. I think she beats batman as well if she can get away. Trait bats have 0 block advantage so reversal teleport gets me outta shit pretty often.

Yes, IMO Killer Frost is a very very difficult MU, what you can do is after she uses an iceberg (if she does) toss a ring, puppet master whatever you think better, if the player uses so much iceberg try to read them, teleport behind and full combo. Same with daggers, try to read them, teleport behind (i'm not sure if you can full combo punish but at least you will get free pressure) i honestly watch this MU as a hard one, maybe 6.5-3.5 in KF's favor, our meter building in this mu is pretty, pretty bad so try to spend your meter properly.

Green Lantern Deg already explained that MU.

For Nightwing it's 5-5 IMO, i've played it twice but i played long ass sets with a great NW player.

Batman Deg also explained it... And yes lol i love this MU because we must zone with Fireball <3 So that bitch can't just jump ll over the place lol i agree, it's 5-5

 

[Mr. Mileena]

deg222
AspyxiaDyslexia-
Mr. Mileena

Killer Frost troubles my Zatanna, it feels impossible to zone, theres no possibility for trait usage and i get murdered up closed and out footsied.. What can i do to change this more in my favor? This seems like a 7-3 so i play NW against her just to make it 6-4..

Same with Green Lantern, i see a few of these list have this as a winning match up, but its one i seem to have trouble with. Ive been playing Zatanna to cover up my bad match ups for nightwing, and she does a great job at that, just seems these 2 matches i have the most trouble with. Any help?

-------

Also, I FIRMLY believe that Zatanna Nightwing is 6-4 or MORE in Zatannas favor, Ive ran a few sets with very skilled nightwing players and pretty much had the upperhand. As a nightwing player, i dont see nightwing winning this match up in the slightest. I think she beats batman as well if she can get away. Trait bats have 0 block advantage so reversal teleport gets me outta shit pretty often.

Killer Frost is in her favor. I don't think it's terrible, but you have to ex kicks every time on block because she will get a punish into vortex everytime.
You have to be careful not to zone like crazy due to spikes.
Her trait is risky because she can't block low in sargon stance, so chucking lows is a must, but Frost can spike randomly to take you out.

Levitate is good to avoid slides, and kf can't do anything off a high levitate unless she's in uppercut distance.
You have to outzone her patiently, build meter, and vortex Frost herself for more damage.

Nightwing I find it to be 5-5/
A good nightwing will staff stance into those stupid low ground spikes.
Zatanna, once she has a reasonable life lead, can just chuck rings and afford to trade at times.
Punish whiffed flying graysons with 2 or 3
punish his air rangs with teleport into normals


Degg explained the GL Mu well
Batman as well

I think Wonderwoman is going to be pretty bad -.-
The bitch is everywhere and ignores her keepaway game


I also think Zod is even, not in his favor

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Killer Frost is in her favor. I don't think it's terrible, but you have to ex kicks every time on block because she will get a punish into vortex everytime.
You have to be careful not to zone like crazy due to spikes.
Her trait is risky because she can't block low in sargon stance, so chucking lows is a must, but Frost can spike randomly to take you out.

Levitate is good to avoid slides, and kf can't do anything off a high levitate unless she's in uppercut distance.
You have to outzone her patiently, build meter, and vortex Frost herself for more damage.

Nightwing I find it to be 5-5/
A good nightwing will staff stance into those stupid low ground spikes.
Zatanna, once she has a reasonable life lead, can just chuck rings and afford to trade at times.
Punish whiffed flying graysons with 2 or 3
punish his air rangs with teleport into normals


Degg explained the GL Mu well
Batman as well

I think Wonderwoman is going to be pretty bad -.-
The bitch is everywhere and ignores her keepaway game


I also think Zod is even, not in his favor

Actually i ran a decent set with elitegoomba with my zatanna and ended up winning like 8-10 or something. I noticed that her jump arc is high and her air dash is long, therefore sniping her out the sky is pretty easy. I seemed to always beat demi goddess with MB rings. Reversal teleport on instant air demi goddess. it actually seems like its in zatannas favor, just have to zone heavily and play a major keep away game. Trait is kind of useless in this MU tho, from 3/4 WW can do a downward tiara and knock you out, anti air magic spark will miss .

She's a frame trap animal, if you know the holes in her strings then reversal backwards teleport is key in the match up. Zatanna has the best anti air projectile in the game IMO, its very important to defeating WW. once I figure out more findings i will report to this thread. thanks guys!!!

 

[Saboteur-6]

Love the match up talk! Awesome to see you guys still grinding it out.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Actually i ran a decent set with elitegoomba with my zatanna and ended up winning like 8-10 or something. I noticed that her jump arc is high and her air dash is long, therefore sniping her out the sky is pretty easy. I seemed to always beat demi goddess with MB rings. Reversal teleport on instant air demi goddess. it actually seems like its in zatannas favor, just have to zone heavily and play a major keep away game. Trait is kind of useless in this MU tho, from 3/4 WW can do a downward tiara and knock you out, anti air magic spark will miss .

She's a frame trap animal, if you know the holes in her strings then reversal backwards teleport is key in the match up. Zatanna has the best anti air projectile in the game IMO, its very important to defeating WW. once I figure out more findings i will report to this thread. thanks guys!!!

I agree what was said with the WW MU, i don't think it's in Zatanna's favor but it's 5-5 IMO, always try to zone WW with fireball, this is so helpful in this MU, you can actually zone her with trait & fireball on tho. We can teleport all day wthout getting punished, we can be at fullscreen all day, but once she gets in there's the deal, WW has no holes on her strings sadly, but IMO we have the tools to keep her away, create meter and actually her oki doesn't work with us <3 but she can read our teleport & punish with air dash, then we can play another mind game with her and teleport to the other side. It's a very fun MU

 

[Phosferrax]

With Zatanna's shocking backdash it can making getting away from WoWo a nightmare once she gets in.

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

Yeah, I have a strategy for the WoWo MU, which is be near her so they do the lasso spin wake up, but you can get away in time and do a standing 3 into a combo. If you try to do a mid-screen cross up with F3 when they do Lasso spin, Zatanna can literally go under the spin, as she becomes that low to the ground. Edit: You can also do a divekick, as her recovery frames just make her go under it as well. You can also just backdash immediately and interrupt it with standing 3 due to it's hitbox. Also, B1 goes under it, so there's options to stuff, but who's gonna get stuck in that situation with that wake-up other than me?

 

[BlastX21]

I'm interested to hear why Pryce and Mileena think NW either loses to or ties Zatanna. I'll preface by saying that I'm far from a great Zat player, but of the matches I've played against him, I've encountered a number of problems, mostly with his staff:

In staff stance, the range gap on normals is a monstrosity. Close combat is a nightmare. You are forced to use meter on push blocking when he gets his poking game started.

His zoning has superior startup frames.

Staff ground spark can interrupt MB rings, causing you to lose the bar but not have the rings come out.

Superior wakeup options.

Trait is easily stuffed.

So what does she have on NW that counteracts this?

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I'm interested to hear why Pryce and Mileena think NW either loses to or ties Zatanna. I'll preface by saying that I'm far from a great Zat player, but of the matches I've played against him, I've encountered a number of problems, mostly with his staff:

In staff stance, the range gap on normals is a monstrosity. Close combat is a nightmare. You are forced to use meter on push blocking when he gets his poking game started.

His zoning has superior startup frames.

Staff ground spark can interrupt MB rings, causing you to lose the bar but not have the rings come out.

Superior wakeup options.

Trait is easily stuffed.

So what does she have on NW that counteracts this?

Ranged options and a teleport. i main nightwing, as well as zatanna. When NW is full screen in staff he loses mobility. flying Grayson is easily punished and ground pound avoided with levitate. Once NWs in, teleport away.

 

[Phosferrax]

I haven't seen it on here and it's very important that people know, but anytime you hit Aquaman with a trance and he uses trait, b3/f3 still launches. I think it's far better comboing into trance instead of mb kicks.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I haven't seen it on here and it's very important that people know, but anytime you hit Aquaman with a trance and he uses trait, b3/f3 still launches. I think it's far better comboing into trance instead of mb kicks.

Problem is he can trait before the MB and block and punish while you waste a meter. At least you get chip with kicks.

 

[xXstealthflameXx]

Problem is he can trait before the MB and block and punish while you waste a meter. At least you get chip with kicks.

Aquaman can be annoying. I haven't been in the lab surprisingly but I haven't punished FTD with Trance and the other way around hasn't happened either. Very boring at fullscreen. Mostly reading tridents and teleporting.

 

[Phosferrax]

Problem is he can trait before the MB and block and punish while you waste a meter. At least you get chip with kicks.

That is the problem, but for one the mb doesn't come out if it doen't hit. I sometimes on a read do mb ring if i think he will trait.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Problem is he can trait before the MB and block and punish while you waste a meter. At least you get chip with kicks.

The timing is weird. If he traits after trance but before MB, it won't trait.

 

[Jaku2011]

MMH just grinds my gears, OH teleport all day everyday. Aquamans a douche too, good ones are rare though.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

MMH just grinds my gears, OH teleport all day everyday. Aquamans a douche too, good ones are rare though.

I tell him, Bye felicia

 

[_Pawned_]

The only chance GL has is at the beginning of the match. Once you're able to escape to fullscreen, you can get so much chip and damage from zoning, that's why it's a 7-3 MU. To make matters worst, if we're able to clash, he's back to fullscreen eating more chip and more damage. And then, our trait is so good in the MU. You're goal in trait is to make sure you get a ton of meter before it wears off, don't worry about trying to chip him away with shots. Absorbing any projectiles of his gives us like 1/3 of a bar, it's ridiculous lol. Once trait is gone, you can spam MB ring tosses again and keep him out.

But chipping with any trait shot ALSO gives us 1/3 a bar so chip is just as good as absorbing projectiles for building meter.

 

[deg222]

But chipping with any trait shot ALSO gives us 1/3 a bar so chip is just as good as absorbing projectiles for building meter.

You completely missed the point. I'm saying that you don't have to aim for chip damage in trait for this MU. If all you do is aim for chip damage, you're going to eat an air missle to the face and not gain any meter.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Okay, I stopped downplaying Zatanna for quite a while now
So this is my MU chart, being serious and not trolling.

Aquaman: 3-7
Ares: 5-5
Bane: 7-3
Batgirl: 5-5
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Cat woman: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 5-5
The Flash: 4-6
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 6-4
Harley Quinn: 5-5
Hawk girl: 5-5
The Joker: 7-3
Killer Frost : 4-6
Lex Luthor: 5-5
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 4-6
Night wing: 5-5
Raven: 4-6
Scorpion: 5-5
Shazam: 5-5
Sinestro: 5-5
Solomon Grundy: 5-5
Superman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 3.5-6.5
Zod: 5-5

What makes Batgirl a 5-5?

 

[Pan1cMode]

What makes Batgirl a 5-5?

As a co-main of both, it is definitely 5-5. Standing 3 beats b1 so she can't just dash in. Trait isn't useless in this MU. db3 tele on reaction and absorb bolas and batarangs for meter. If Zatanna touches her, BG has to play the guessing game just as much as Zatanna does. Zatanna's ji1 does pretty well against BGs jump ins so shes unlikely to keep jumping in on you. If they try and psyche-out tele, ji1 will connect first (tele has like 20+ frames of startup).

BG isn't some god tier character with no weaknesses. You need to learn how to play the MU.

 

[DarksydeDash]

As a co-main of both, it is definitely 5-5. Standing 3 beats b1 so she can't just dash in. Trait isn't useless in this MU. db3 tele on reaction and absorb bolas and batarangs for meter. If Zatanna touches her, BG has to play the guessing game just as much as Zatanna does. Zatanna's ji1 does pretty well against BGs jump ins so shes unlikely to keep jumping in on you. If they try and psyche-out tele, ji1 will connect first (tele has like 20+ frames of startup).

BG isn't some god tier character with no weaknesses. You need to learn how to play the MU.

Will a slow MB fireball hit her if she teleports to counter your zoning?

 

[Pan1cMode]

Will a slow MB fireball hit her if she teleports to counter your zoning?

Depends. If you walk into it then yes. If you walk back then perhaps.

 

[_Pawned_]

You completely missed the point. I'm saying that you don't have to aim for chip damage in trait for this MU. If all you do is aim for chip damage, you're going to eat an air missle to the face and not gain any meter.

I guess I did completely miss the point haha....I was thinking the point was to build meter. But your right, if you take a missile to the face you can't keep building meter anyway. Also deg, I saw your zatanna play at Final Round and it has inspired me to main zatanna. I used to main Sinestro, but I have always liked zatanna's character playstyle. Well done at Final Round by the way almost making top 8. I will probably be asking lots of questions since I am so new to this awesome character.