Forever King's new and improved Tier List

[Doombawkz]

Bane is a legit character with a plethora of tools. I have him as an 'A' character. If that upsets you....shrug.

I did not come to this conclusion based on the opinions of others. It's looking at tools.

You're totally right, how could I be so blind. Nearly as large a d.2 as Aquaman, better damage and oki and wake-ups...
Places well on a consistent basis with a collection of strong players, spread all across the country.
More tech, strategies, and damage you can shake a stick at. Not to mention access to debuff resets mid-combo, one of the best b.3s (low crush, huge range)...

Only loses to 2 people even slightly badly, beats a collection of people just as badly whom have good representation, both with such low representation that its almost irrelevant, goes 5-5 or better against a lot of people including the top 2 in the game...

Putting him as A doesn't do him justice. Then again, dividing this game into more than 2 tiers doesn't do them much justice.
You're either top 25, or bottom 5. Everyone on the top half has what it takes to do anything as long as the player is good enough. Bottom 5 might need a secondary.

 

[nightw0lf]

Nope, the MU is 5-5 at worst.

Really, batgirl's only losing MU is AM. You could debate Harley Quin and NW as perhaps being bad but other than that everything is even or advantage. And even then, AM isn't that bad 6-4 MU probably. That trait nerf in the last patch really helped her.

ok maybe i should rephrase this: a good sinestro is pretty shit for a scrubby yolo batgirl.

 

[nightw0lf]

You're totally right, how could I be so blind. Nearly as large a d.2 as Aquaman, better damage and oki and wake-ups...
Places well on a consistent basis with a collection of strong players, spread all across the country.
More tech, strategies, and damage you can shake a stick at. Not to mention access to debuff resets mid-combo, one of the best b.3s (low crush, huge range)...

Only loses to 2 people even slightly badly, beats a collection of people just as badly whom have good representation, both with such low representation that its almost irrelevant, goes 5-5 or better against a lot of people including the top 2 in the game...

Putting him as A doesn't do him justice. Then again, dividing this game into more than 2 tiers doesn't do them much justice.
You're either top 25, or bottom 5. Everyone on the top half has what it takes to do anything as long as the player is good enough. Bottom 5 might need a secondary.

THAT IS WHY THE GAME IS CALLED INJUSTICE .... AMIRIGHT?

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I think we have a habit from the mk days of making little groups of tiers. Where injustice`s tier are probably only 4, with large groups in each.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

King, you have WoundCowboy syndrome putting Aquaman in S tier because your main loses to him

lol well I don't know how you could have him outside S tier when he has dominant footsies, good movement and a ridiculous move that takes 15 %, builds meter and is unpunishable by most of the cast. There is no way he is outside S tier.

 

[THTB]

I see people still ignore weaknesses as a whole, such as bad mobility and not a strong enough distance game to compensate.

Oh well, carry on.

 

[RIF]

You're totally right, how could I be so blind. Nearly as large a d.2 as Aquaman, better damage and oki and wake-ups...
Places well on a consistent basis with a collection of strong players, spread all across the country.
More tech, strategies, and damage you can shake a stick at. Not to mention access to debuff resets mid-combo, one of the best b.3s (low crush, huge range)...

Only loses to 2 people even slightly badly, beats a collection of people just as badly whom have good representation, both with such low representation that its almost irrelevant, goes 5-5 or better against a lot of people including the top 2 in the game...

Putting him as A doesn't do him justice. Then again, dividing this game into more than 2 tiers doesn't do them much justice.
You're either top 25, or bottom 5. Everyone on the top half has what it takes to do anything as long as the player is good enough. Bottom 5 might need a secondary.

Apparently it does bother you. If you pay attention to my first post, I essentially have the game broken into 3 categories. Top, Middle, Bottom. I had him in the middle. If someone put Bane in the top category, I would be fine with that. However, he does have flaws that can be exposed. He bends the rules of Injustice and many people do not know how to handle his pressure. Are you suggesting Bane only has 2 losing match-ups and goes even/beats the rest of the cast? I am confused by your comment.

 

[Big Pampering]

I see people still ignore weaknesses as a whole, such as bad mobility and not a strong enough distance game to compensate.

Oh well, carry on.

yup, aquaman is good but some people will keep mentioning the same things like OHH he has a breaker as a trait, he outfootsies everybody!, he has a 20% chip move!

Trait is not as good as it is against everyone, some characters dont have to play footsies with him and because of that might even beat him in the future, some characters punish trident rush. Next to that his wakeup game is pretty bad and he doesnt have the 50/50s some characters have. So how is aquaman this broken piece of shit? Im not downplaying aquaman, I'm just mentioning the things people would like to hide because their characters happen to lose against aquaman. I don't even have to mention what aquaman is good at because that has been mentioned enough on these forums.

 

[THTB]

yup, aquaman is good but some people will keep mentioning the same things like OHH he has a breaker as a trait, he outfootsies everybody!, he has a 20% chip move!

Trait is not as good as it is against everyone, some characters dont have to play footsies with him and because of that might even beat him in the future, some characters punish trident rush. Next to that his wakeup game is pretty bad and he doesnt have the 50/50s some characters have. So how is aquaman this broken piece of shit? Im not downplaying aquaman, I'm just mentioning the things people would like to hide because their characters happen to lose against aquaman. I don't even have to mention what aquaman is good at because that has been mentioned enough on these forums.

I was actually referring to GL, but this is also something. And it's something I don't see brought up in regards to MMH, too, a character who doesn't have a standard horizontal projectile (why do people not see how big of a deal that actually is?) and whose footsies are heavily reliant on, what, a span of 12 seconds worth of range? That's one of the few reasons why I'm not sold on MMH being on a tier of his own. Best character? Possibly, I think you'd have to really fight to argue he isn't at least top 3. But there's too much sheep syndrome going on.

But back to GL...in all honesty, GL is as high as he is here because, for one, it's harder to come across his harder matchups than it is to play them. Second, he doesn't even do that bad vs top characters. If you just go by tournaments, he seems good, but as soon as you start throwing matchups into the equation, you see how much murder he gets away with in brackets. I'm not saying he's low tier or anything. I think anyone saying that shit should be stoned lol. But within S tier? Nah. I think there's easily 10 characters that are better. Hell, that matchup chart that SSB put together with top players' opinions should be pretty heavy evidence towards this, considering how much DJT approved those numbers, too.

 

[arde5643]

A sound but still fucking dumb tier list considering this is a whole new era after the patch. A year after we see more results in majors and minors will be a better indication of a true tier list.

While certain characters in paper might look really great, their performances in tourneys can differ greatly from simple best of 5 or best of 10 against the same character (or players).
I feel the game has (for now) become quite balanced where tourney performances are very much on the players rather than characters (ie. a good player maining a theoretical mid-tier or lower-tier character will still win against a decent player maining a theoretical top tier character). In other words, Injustice is (for now) in the balance realms of SF4 rather than MK9/UMVC3.

There are just too many factors to affect player performance IMO (rated from highest to lowest factors):

• General theoretical MU knowledge (punishes, frame data, general metagame)
• Practical info of other players' MU knowledge level (some players will know certain MUs better simply due to their local scenes)
  simple example will be Tyrant's Grundy that will beat any Superman outside of Socal pretty free simply due to the lack of Grundy on Tyrant's level at other scenes
• Bracketology (character and player-wise) - some pools are harder than others, and sometimes you get bad or unknowledgeable MUs
• Random select stage select - knowledge and experience of good, bad, and neutral stages for both the player's and opponent's characters. Unlike other games where stage selection doesn't matter at all, stages can change the playstyle of a player/character and might change the odds of winning heavily.

 

[Eldriken]

Doomsday's placement is 100% fine by me. It's the only character I even cared to see the tier placement for. FOREVER KING did not disappoint.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Man that blow up after FF/SCR (dont remember to which you're going) gonna be epic.

And no, you're not.

You just wait. I will shock the world!

 

[M2Dave]

lol well I don't know how you could have him outside S tier when he has dominant footsies, good movement and a ridiculous move that takes 15 %, builds meter and is unpunishable by most of the cast. There is no way he is outside S tier.

True, but he lacks the most powerful aspect of the game - a safe 50/50 mix up.

 

[RIF]

True, but he lacks the most powerful aspect of the game - a safe 50/50 mix up.

As did Black Adam when he was dominating. Who does Aquaman 'lose' to? Zod?

 

[M2Dave]

As did Black Adam when he was dominating. Who does Aquaman 'lose' to? Zod?

Neither did pre-patch Superman, but I am not going to compare pre-patch Black Adam and Superman to the current version of Aquaman. The differences are conspicuous.

Aquaman vs. Zod is 5:5. I am not an Aquaman player, but popular belief says that he loses to Green Lantern and Killer Frost.

The argument is not whether Aquaman is a top tier character. He is, but he may not be the second best character in the game.

 

[RIF]

Neither did pre-patch Superman, but I am not going to compare pre-patch Black Adam and Superman to the current version of Aquaman. The differences are conspicuous.

Aquaman vs. Zod is 5:5. I am not an Aquaman player, but popular belief says that he loses to Green Lantern and Killer Frost.

The argument is not whether Aquaman is a top tier character. He is, but he may not be the second best character in the game.

My point was simply that other tools Wound was referring to compensate for a vortex & 50/50s.
Fair enough. Agreed. I've moved him down on my own list a bit even though he destroys my main. (Mainly due to poor wakeups)

 

[GGA Wafflez]

lol all these scrub peons discussing MU's.

 

[16 Bit]

I see people still ignore weaknesses as a whole, such as bad mobility and not a strong enough distance game to compensate.

Oh well, carry on.

We don't ignore the GL mobility complaints. We hear the GL players complain about it every day. It's just that no one believes you. There's a difference.

 

[Doombawkz]

Apparently it does bother you. If you pay attention to my first post, I essentially have the game broken into 3 categories. Top, Middle, Bottom. I had him in the middle. If someone put Bane in the top category, I would be fine with that. However, he does have flaws that can be exposed. He bends the rules of Injustice and many people do not know how to handle his pressure. Are you suggesting Bane only has 2 losing match-ups and goes even/beats the rest of the cast? I am confused by your comment.

Basically he only loses to 2 people by a big enough margin to matter (Flash and Zatanna) both of which have very low representation. Likewise, he bodies out characters like Green Arrow and the like whom have good representation. As far as this game is concerned, 6-4 and 4-6 in either direction is still completely winnable by both characters, just one has very slight advantages in some fields. His match-ups are more even/positive than negative, so he is solid.

As far as "flaws that can be exposed", what would those be? His trait cooldown which doesn't stop the Bane from blocking, abusing his huge reach on normal attacks, and can be reset with the right read while never having to be more relevant than 2 to 4 seconds at the most? His slow attacks which give him so much advantage that even on trade he wins out, and are risky to trade against because of his armor? The guy is solid, and as I said dividing this game into more than 2 categories is misleading because characters who aren't in the top 10 still have damn fine odds against those who are. I think Bane is top 15 at best, but then theres 10 people below him that have just as much shot as those above him.

As far as bothering me, the only thing that bothers me is people still saying Bane has these huge magical weaknesses that hold him back in a major way. Unless you have EX lightning charge or Zatanna-ports, you're just another wake-up to beat.

 

[16 Bit]

I sort of agree with Doombawks. Tiers are not based on tier results but maybe it's time to stop clinging to old conventional wisdom and start coming at this with a new perspective. Is there any region where the standard tier list applies?

 

[GGA Wafflez]

We don't ignore the GL mobility complaints. We hear the GL players complain about it every day. It's just that no one believes you. There's a difference.

wait a second...

 

[Doombawkz]

I sort of agree with Doombawkz. Tiers are not based on tier results but maybe it's time to stop clinging to old conventional wisdom and start coming at this with a new perspective. Is there any region where the standard tier list applies?

Depends on what you consider the "standard tier list", but going off of most people's results, no.
Pretty much everywhere in the country, you see people like Raven, HG, Bane, and the like overcoming the higher tiers.
AK, GGA, from east to west, pretty much everywhere you look the results are getting more and more diverse. Which is good, mind you. Seeing characters in top 8s span the lists from Scorp to BA is very good to see imo.

 

[arde5643]

I sort of agree with Doombawks. Tiers are not based on tier results but maybe it's time to stop clinging to old conventional wisdom and start coming at this with a new perspective. Is there any region where the standard tier list applies?

I think the only time the standard tier list really applies was before patch 1.06 when Supes and BA ruled everyone.


I mean GGA is ruled by Catwoman, Scorp, Hawkgirl, Lex, Bane.
Socal is ruled by Grundy and Supes/Aquaman - lately Batman as well.
NY is ruled by Black Adam and Batman, although Flash and MMH might be coming up as well.
I'm trying to think who dominates Atlanta Kombat - I'm thinking most likely Black Adam, followed by Lex, Harley, Batman (??)

 

[RIF]

Basically he only loses to 2 people by a big enough margin to matter (Flash and Zatanna) both of which have very low representation. Likewise, he bodies out characters like Green Arrow and the like whom have good representation. As far as this game is concerned, 6-4 and 4-6 in either direction is still completely winnable by both characters, just one has very slight advantages in some fields. His match-ups are more even/positive than negative, so he is solid.

As far as "flaws that can be exposed", what would those be? His trait cooldown which doesn't stop the Bane from blocking, abusing his huge reach on normal attacks, and can be reset with the right read while never having to be more relevant than 2 to 4 seconds at the most? His slow attacks which give him so much advantage that even on trade he wins out, and are risky to trade against because of his armor? The guy is solid, and as I said dividing this game into more than 2 categories is misleading because characters who aren't in the top 10 still have damn fine odds against those who are. I think Bane is top 15 at best, but then theres 10 people below him that have just as much shot as those above him.

As far as bothering me, the only thing that bothers me is people still saying Bane has these huge magical weaknesses that hold him back in a major way. Unless you have EX lightning charge or Zatanna-ports, you're just another wake-up to beat.

You're arguing the same point I am trying to make. Again, I broke the characters into 2 tiers then subdivided those. The differences between them are very small.

Bane does have issues with zoning. He still needs to get in. His trait cool-down is a problem which can be mitigated, but it is a problem. (His trait, IMHO, is broken.)

I've put him in the 'A' category. You're putting him in the same range I have. I made no claims about him being held back. You're projecting and arguing a point I have not made.

 

[Qwark28]

alot of people round here just sheep, they repeat stuff they've heard like parrots with little to none of there own evidence to go on. eg. reo leading the mmh is broken trolling there bit ago and everyone following him.

like you cant argue against how unsafe he is, that is true about him.
but people seem to be living in pre this patch days with some things, scorpion doesnt have double scaling on his combos anymore guys.
39% from a 6 frame standing 1 with 1 bar+trait, thats shitty damage is it?
30%+ whenever he uses a meter off any string,
22-25% damage from a mb telepunch, even at -8 its still one of the best special moves in game,
good few practical untechable knockdowns,
oh yea and he has a vortex plus a corner version vortex which is pretty much unseeable and advantage on block

yea....clearly a shitter :/

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