Strategy Community Guide to overcoming fundamental Nightwing Problems

[Sajam]

To be fair I share a lot of opinions with NWDZ, but not in such a heavily depressive way.

When NW wins against lots of characters you are probably outplaying somebody, dealing with a lack of MU experience, or playing one of his 5-5s. I love NW, but almost losing or losing to players you are working 100 times harder than is ridiculous. I'm still playing him because I don't mind outworking my opponents sometimes, but for a lot of mus you should probably have a strong pocket character you know well.

I'm willing to put in work with the character, but after hundreds of hours dumped in I'm not gonna pretend like this character just needs more tech or knowledge. I still think people downplay him too much, but I'm sick of pretending like he's untapped at the same time, and if anybody tries to tell me that again then fuck you, seriously. You don't get to decide that the work I put in with my character hasn't been enough when the very first time I picked MMH against Slayer in tournament I won on auto pilot but I have to work my ass off to even compete with NW.

Either way, I'm willing to help as best as I can, but there are some problems this character has that you can only fix by outplaying your opponent in ridiculous ways.

 

[Akromaniac27]

The character has to work so hard, for so little.

I'm tired of seeing the character erroneously up played. It's like PPJ winning NEC with Hawkgirl - all of a sudden Hawkgirl is this retarded broken character. Anyone maybe consider PPJ is just an outstanding player who outplayed his opponents? It's stupid.

When you win with Nightwing - your opponent has to hold that shit.

Lmao got that right on how retarded she is. I'm more annoyed honestly that out of ALLLLLLL the flying characters in the game, they gave her that type of mobility -___- Speaking of which, the downplaying from the HG community on her "poor mobility" lmao. *Proceeds to mace charge, d1, we3, which btw is the only move in the game that have invincibility on start up without it needing to be a wake up(good shit NRS). Technically speaking, you clip her wings, she won't even get up. The others, you have to chain down and shit. But anywayss....

As for NW, truthfully, I don't think his damage is THAT bad, nor is his mobility. His dash in ES in crazy good, unless I'm doing the wrong thing. Covers good space and pretty much recovers instantly. For zoners, I think thats the general play. Dash block, dash block, and throw out his flip kick. Safe on block, MB grants advantage, and the animation of it lets him go over projectiles. And what ever happened to his staff spin*MB on block shenanigans? I hardly see it. Yeah you can pushblock, but hey it's 1 bar for 1 bar, and in that stance, he has really good range. IDK, I truthfully don't feel I'm being naive. I think its a plateau period

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Hello fellow Nightwing players.How are you all, my fellow Nightwing brothers?
As a Night wing player I would like to know what I should do against a Killer Frost player to get destroyed. This way I WON'T do that.

It is great to be a part of the Nightwing community. I look forward to our discussion so that I can improve my Nightwing play.

Gtfo here Ricky. You make me sad man.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

What's NW's biggest flaw in cyborg and sinestro matchup? Is his offense not good enough once he finally gets in? Does he not get rewarded from the flowchart stay out and die, get in a dwin method?

Nightwing's offense is pretty good when he's in range. The amount of chip he eats just trying to get on those guys. Considering how big the maps are, it takes a life time to get to the other side of the screen, you main Joker right? I can't imagine how Joker handles a Cyborg or Sinestro. Only if Injustice maps were the size of a KI map or even SF4AE map. NW has a slow start up jump, so if he tries to jump over a neutral projectile, he'll have to eat or block an air projectile after....where as Black Adam or Batman cover more ground with their jump ins and can get where they want in no time. It would help if NW had Cyborg's grapple (which makes a lot more sense in NW having it over Cyborg, I always thought Cyborg should have a Boomtube tele since it's a tool he uses often ala his entrance)

NW is definitely a character that requires patience, which is tough because he's such a high paced character who's at his best when the match is running at a fast pace IMO.

Against a Sinestro or Cyborg, I just throw a ground spark out there in hope of them blocking it, even better getting hit by it so they can be stun for a moment for me to get two dashes in to be in range to attack.

It's just really tough with Cyborg because his air Nova Blaster is +2 on block, MB it's +9, his TA is literally +100 so never get near that (even though Cyborg has really tricky set ups after a knockdown to leave you in TA range).

Besides Sinestro and Cyborg....I'm not sure if any Dick had a chance to play against Zatanna, but she could be as difficult full screen as those two characters.

I played Mr. Mileena's Zatanna a lot over the past two months, probably got 3 wins out of 30 against him just based on the fact she controls the match up on full screen. I'm going to ask him if I can grind out that match up, but it's definitely not in NW's favor IMO.

I think outta Sinestro Zod Cyborg and Raven, Zod is the worse for nightwing.

It's not the zoning as much as Zods prepatch Black Adam backdash. Once u get in, he gets out for free, everytime.

I agree. I played a lot of Zods and I always done very well against them, but the best Zod I played really opened me up. I wish I played him more than twice because I was beginning to get through his zoning (which is possible IMO but this guy was just great at spacing with MB Rifle then MB Ground Lasers into Trait). I'm trying to find some more Injustice players in my area to play with offline.

The Zod matchup is just a match NW has to play at Zod's pace because once you open Zod up and condition him to not waking up so much (his Zod charge is highly punishable but a good Zod normally uses Phantom Strike since it's -1 on block) he'll begin to play less of his game and that will favor NW in all ways. But full screen, Ground Sparks and mixing it up with Ground Blast MB will keep him in check from activating his trait full screen. Zod's pistols miss NW while he's Ground Sparking. The toughest thing in dealing with Zod is his Fast Kryptonite Rifle which +12 on block and is just 2 frames. Even if you jump back to avoid it, Zod will normally call trait out.

I got experience against Zod's combo strings while trait is activated, but Zod has about 2-3 options that have low and overhead properties. Really good to study those properties because theres a 11D2 combo string thats +5 on block.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Funny u mention Zatanna cuz she's my secondary to cover some of NWs bad MUs

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

No one is saying Nightwing is bad...jesus christ why are all these non NW players coming in here and talking matchups?

It's a thread for NW players to collaborate on things that they are having issues with...share tech, level up.

Yes, we all know that knocking Sinestro, Cyborg or Raven down is advantageous. That's not the problem. There is a reason why Sinestro and Cyborg beat Nightwing.

Similar to other characters in SF who have some gimmick ways or WoWo who has her d3 to get by some of this stuff, I am wondering if NW has something that aids in his travels...because he literally needs help in his travels.

WoWo doesnt get around Zod by D3ing, same with Sinestro and Raven. Just block EXACTLY what you have to block until you get them into the corner.
Best way to learn that sort of thing would be playing General M2Dave

For example, against a Zod, wait for gunshots whiff until you move, and ONLY take your 1 dash at a time. Against Sinestro, block 1 fear blast, move in, take what you have to take to get in. Obviously the opponent can then mix things up, but as long as you have good reactions you can avoid things like throws and jumps etc.

D3s only avoid things, they dont help you get in.

 

[Rickyraws]

Funny u mention Zatanna cuz she's my secondary to cover some of NWs bad MUs

Hello fellow Zatanna players.How are you all, my fellow Zatanna brothers?
As a Zatanna player I would like to know what I should do against a Killer Frost player to get destroyed. This way I WON'T do that.

It is great to be a part of the Zatanna community. I look forward to our discussion so that I can improve my Zatanna play.

WoWo doesnt get around Zod by D3ing, same with Sinestro and Raven. Just block exactly what you have to block until you get them into the corner.
Best way to learn that sort of thing would be playing General M2Dave

D3s only avoid things, they dont help you get in.

Lies. According to 16bit d3 avoids things and block infinites people. In fact, didn't you just post a status update about a 59% d3 starter in shield stance?

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Funny u mention Zatanna cuz she's my secondary to cover some of NWs bad MUs

I may have to buy her, she handles Superman, Cybrog, Sinestro, GL(Puppet Master is so damn good against Missile happy GL's), she looks like she requires a lot of work, but most Zatanna's I've seen handle those guys pretty well. Deg's Zatanna is pretty sick to watch.

What's crazy is that NW's defense against rushdown characters like Flash/Batman is really good because they can keep them out with D1 in staff and B1 in staff and punish on whiffs with B2 or B1 in Escrima. But full Screen this is where NW suffers against strong full screen characters. I think everyday what Nightwing would be like if he had a grapple move , a double jump or just a better jump arch that covers more ground.

 

[Qwark28]

Nightwing's offense is pretty good when he's in range. The amount of chip he eats just trying to get on those guys. Considering how big the maps are, it takes a life time to get to the other side of the screen, you main Joker right? I can't imagine how Joker handles a Cyborg or Sinestro. Only if Injustice maps were the size of a KI map or even SF4AE map. NW aldo has a slow start up jump, so if he tries to jump over a neutral projectile, he'll have to eat or block an air projectile after....where as Black Adam or Batman cover more ground with their jump ins and can get where they want in no time. It would help if NW had Cyborg's grapple (which makes a lot more sense in NW having it over Cyborg, I always thought Cyborg should have a Boomtube tele since it's a tool he uses often ala his entrance)

NW is definitely a character that requires patience, which is tough because he's such a high paced character who's at his best when the match is running at a fast pace IMO.

Against a Sinestro or Cyborg, I just throw a ground spark out there in hope of them blocking it, even better getting hit by it so they can be stun for a moment for me to get two dashes in to be in range to attack.

It's just really tough with Cyborg because his air Nova Blaster is +2 on block, MB it's +9, his TA is literally +100 so never get near that (even though Cyborg has really tricky set ups after a knockdown to leave you in TA range).

Besides Sinestro and Cyborg....I'm not sure if any Dick had a chance to play against Zatanna, but she could be as difficult full screen as those two characters.

.

Thanks for the reply, it seems common sense is in short stock around here.

Yeah, Joker has a much easier time interrupting Cyborg due to his gun not being ground based but NW has much better mobility and ways to suddenly get and stay in.

The main thing Joker and NW have in common is wanting to get an early lifelead and just turtle away, it seems though that Joker can actively defend the lifelead from far away too with gunshot trades. The biggest problem though is that grappling hook, if a way was found for the hook to be punishable then the matchup would be much easier since it would be either the corner or a juicy combo.

 

[TakeAChance]

WoWo doesnt get around Zod by D3ing, same with Sinestro and Raven. Just block EXACTLY what you have to block until you get them into the corner.
Best way to learn that sort of thing would be playing General M2Dave

For example, against a Zod, wait for gunshots whiff until you move, and ONLY take your 1 dash at a time. Against Sinestro, block 1 fear blast, move in, take what you have to take to get in. Obviously the opponent can then mix things up, but as long as you have good reactions you can avoid things like throws and jumps etc.

D3s only avoid things, they dont help you get in.

I was more or less referring to those obscure things that may help in a matchup. Solid advice.

 

[TakeAChance]

Thanks for the reply, it seems common sense is in short stock around here.

Yeah, Joker has a much easier time interrupting Cyborg due to his gun not being ground based but NW has much better mobility and ways to suddenly get and stay in.

The main thing Joker and NW have in common is wanting to get an early lifelead and just turtle away, it seems though that Joker can actively defend the lifelead from far away too with gunshot trades. The biggest problem though is that grappling hook, if a way was found for the hook to be punishable then the matchup would be much easier since it would be either the corner or a juicy combo.

It still does not stop the issue of getting in. Nightwing has no mobility options but to walk/dash through it where he can. He will eat damage and when he does get in, it's so easy for cyborg to get out.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

It still does not stop the issue of getting in. Nightwing has no mobility options but to walk/dash through it where he can. He will eat damage and when he does get in, it's so easy for cyborg to get out.

Which is why our only option is to rush that shit down and when he's in the corner pin him with Repeated MB wingdings to convince him to stop ziplining.

Or just play lobo. Cyborg is super free to Lobo.

 

[Qwark28]

It still does not stop the issue of getting in. Nightwing has no mobility options but to walk/dash through it where he can. He will eat damage and when he does get in, it's so easy for cyborg to get out.

Which is why you should be looking for ways to punish the grapple. The only reason you can't lock down Cyborg is because of that grapple, the zoning itself is of no consequence other than the meter he builds and the occasional EX air fireball.

 

[TakeAChance]

Which is why our only option is to rush that shit down and when he's in the corner pin him with Repeated MB wingdings to convince him to stop ziplining.

Or just play lobo. Cyborg is super free to Lobo.

Can't he just...block? And then get the free zip out tho? Or better yet punish you?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Can't he just...block? And then get the free zip out tho? Or better yet punish you?

If you stay at that specific range and keep MB them - even if he blocks and THEN tries to zipline - you'll catch him on his way up and send him back to the corner.

I've played this MU with SuddenBlackout and K7L33THA extensively. On my best days I can overcome it - but the work I have to put in is insane.

Nuke shells with lobo make this the freest MU in the game if Cyborg wants to trade in the zoning war. It's depressing.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Cyborg as well.

Superman is a possible 3-7 as well.

But please do not derail the thread.

Dude, we can talk matchups in one of the other matchup threads. Please stay on topic.

I don't want this to be a theory fighting topic. This is not a matchup argument...it is a thread for fellow Nightwing players to come together and collaborate to try and patch some holes.

No one is saying Nightwing is bad...jesus christ why are all these non NW players coming in here and talking matchups?

It's a thread for NW players to collaborate on things that they are having issues with...share tech, level up.

Yes, we all know that knocking Sinestro, Cyborg or Raven down is advantageous. That's not the problem. There is a reason why Sinestro and Cyborg beat Nightwing.

Similar to other characters in SF who have some gimmick ways or WoWo who has her d3 to get by some of this stuff, I am wondering if NW has something that aids in his travels...because he literally needs help in his travels.

Dude...these guys are being nice and offering thoughts and if they are not going to call you out, I will.

This thread has turned into nothing more than a place for your "fellow nightwing players" to come and BITCH about their character. NOBODY has posted anything other than who their alt characters are and which MU they hate with NW the most. This thread is making me sick. The only good and productive info posted has been by the NON NW players.

Maybe you should be on their asses instead and REALLY level up your scene.

FUCK

 

[Hruza Da Bruza]

Dude...these guys are being nice and offering thoughts and if they are not going to call you out, I will.

This thread has turned into nothing more than a place for your "fellow nightwing players" to come and BITCH about their character. NOBODY has posted anything other than who their alt characters are and which MU they hate with NW the most. This thread is making me sick. The only good and productive info posted has been by the NON NW players.

Maybe you should be on their asses instead and REALLY level up your scene.

FUCK

I'm a NW player and I agree with this.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I'm a NW player and I agree with this.

I'm a nightwing player too...and I say again

FUCK

 

[Phosferrax]

I got experience against Zod's combo strings while trait is activated, but Zod has about 2-3 options that have low and overhead properties. Really good to study those properties because theres a 11D2 combo string thats +5 on block.

11d2 is negative on block. The in-game frame data is wrong, it's actually 112 that is +5 on block. Just so you know not to respect him as much after a 11d2.

 

[BigMilk]

Dude...these guys are being nice and offering thoughts and if they are not going to call you out, I will.

This thread has turned into nothing more than a place for your "fellow nightwing players" to come and BITCH about their character. NOBODY has posted anything other than who their alt characters are and which MU they hate with NW the most. This thread is making me sick. The only good and productive info posted has been by the NON NW players.

Maybe you should be on their asses instead and REALLY level up your scene.

FUCK

To be fair, a lot of people misunderstood his goal for this thread, while they still posted excellent advice it wasn't the purpose. Like posting combos in MU thread but I am a NW and I agree too lol. Couldn't even bring myself to post anything after reading everyone's posts....Anyway don't want to completely waste anyone's time here so, although F3 a move with slow startup it can work as spark cancel does since it is his longest range normal and also lowers his hitbox(just a small amount) where certain projectiles will whiff, along with the MB meta, it proves useful in the right matchups and situations though still not very practical.

 

[Braindead]

TakeAChance well I guess we don't have anything about the zoning issue currently, so let's move to the max damage point.
How do you want to go about that one? Want to take every situation separately? Like for example whats the max damage of a B2 combo both in corners and midscreen?

 

[BigMilk]

Something I incorporate in my playstyle quite a bit is j2. Although not very useful for jump in pressure outside of setups, it is very useful as an evasive maneuver. It shrinks his hitbox while allowing him to get higher off the ground sooner, which I find useful since his jump startup speed is terrible. As far as maximizing damage goes, our setups are much more rewarding for only sacrificing a few percent. That is the main reason we don't maximize damage imo

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Dude...these guys are being nice and offering thoughts and if they are not going to call you out, I will.

This thread has turned into nothing more than a place for your "fellow nightwing players" to come and BITCH about their character. NOBODY has posted anything other than who their alt characters are and which MU they hate with NW the most. This thread is making me sick. The only good and productive info posted has been by the NON NW players.

Maybe you should be on their asses instead and REALLY level up your scene.

FUCK

well, what productive information may you share with us?

I think it's important for all NWs to discuss how they handle a match against Sinestro, Zod, Cyborg and even Harley Quinn, also share what they have for maximizing their damage output or sacrificing the damage for a set up. From what I seen a lot of NW's here play differently from each other so I'm sure we can learn a lot from each other as we continue to grind out this character and see what can overcome his fundamental problem. Sorry If I don't have amazing new tech to share with the forum, but let me know if I can engage in discussion about the character. I believe anyone in here who's stating what MU they hate for NW and expressing the struggle with the character is just keeping it real. It's not like this forum section is always popping.

If someone got something to say, hear them out. I think a lot of people in this thread have contributed to a lot to the community so it's fair that they share their current status on the character. Every forum here has something to bitch about with their character, most NW's threads don't even include bitching if you go look through the page and see a lot of videos posted that include cool tech.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Something I incorporate in my playstyle quite a bit is j2. Although not very useful for jump in pressure outside of setups, it is very useful as an evasive maneuver. It shrinks his hitbox while allowing him to get higher off the ground sooner, which I find useful since his jump startup speed is terrible. As far as maximizing damage goes, our setups are much more rewarding for only sacrificing a few percent. That is the main reason we don't maximize damage imo

is it hitbox or hurtbox? correct me if I'm wrong.

So for example, Deathstroke shoots his handguns or Superman does air lasers, you would utilize the J2 to avoid the projectile? From what I know, J2 basically cuts NW's hurtbox in half and keeps him in the air a bit longer where as Nightwing's Neutral Jump doesn't taken him off the ground that high and I believe NW is free to get hit by high projectile attacks. I want to check out that in the lab and see how NW's J2 can get over high projectiles. Deathstroke's quick fire is 11 frames and a high attack same with HQ's DF1.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

well, what productive information may you share with us?

I think it's important for all NWs to discuss how they handle a match against Sinestro, Zod, Cyborg and even Harley Quinn, also share what they have for maximizing their damage output or sacrificing the damage for a set up. From what I seen a lot of NW's here play differently from each other so I'm sure we can learn a lot from each other as we continue to grind out this character and see what can overcome his fundamental problem. Sorry If I don't have amazing new tech to share with the forum, but let me know if I can engage in discussion about the character. I believe anyone in here who's stating what MU they hate for NW and expressing the struggle with the character is just keeping it real. It's not like this forum section is always popping.

If someone got something to say, hear them out. I think a lot of people in this thread have contributed to a lot to the community so it's fair that they share their current status on the character. Every forum here has something to bitch about with their character, most NW's threads don't even include bitching if you go look through the page and see a lot of videos posted that include cool tech.

I wasn't upset about the bitching...it was the way it WASN'T handled yet people who had legitimate thoughts were labeled and told to leave...just poor form