Rate Your Main Injustice Character(s)

[JTB123]

Solomon Grundy

Offense (3.5/5)

Doesn't really have a 50/50 but does have a lot of throw set ups that if someone doesn't know will get destroyed by them. WCC plays well into Grundy's offensive game if used correctly. Also can make it
very tough for someone to get out of the corner, MB hands must be respected no matter the distance. MB WC puts your opponent in a bad situation and takes 19%.

Defense (4/5)

Great armour, back dash and back walk speed are good. Great forward dash, D2 is great
when used effectively, anti-air grab is good for jump ins and can make players stay on the ground
which brings MB hands into play more.

Trait (4/5)

Unique in that Grundy kind of has 3 traits and not just one. Chip and defense trait are amazing, one significantly alters certain matches and the other gives you 20% more health overall and deals the most damage when used in combos, health trait also builds an insane amount of meter. Damage trait is also good, I just feel the other two are a lot more useful overall.

Damage (3/3)

Need it, he does.

Zoning (2/3)

I feel Grundy does pretty well here, when you need to stay in his combos leave you in a good spot close to your opponent. WC/C is great for closing distances.

Anti Zoning (1.5/3)

Again WCC is great for getting in and people who want to keep you out if you use it right, only downside is you are going to take damage no matter what. I feel this is only really bad in certain match ups, characters that can stay in the air (Hawkgirl, Superman for exmaple).

Mobility (1.5/3)

Great forward dash, WC also plays into his mobility, OK walk speeds, bad jumps.

Interactables (1.5/3)

Has some good options to exploit gadget and acrobat characters using interactables but suffers against fast power characters.

Total = 21 out of 30

Looking at that I feel like I'm missing something, I am far from a great player so maybe there are points I've left off that I'm not aware of.

 

[Desperdicio]

BATMAN

Offense: 4/5. Naked, his pressure is pretty weak, but as long as he has bats, he is a nightmare to his opponent.
Defense: 5/5. He has fast attacks, b2 3 creates some spacing if needed. His parry has just 1 frame of start up, making it possible to land it in between most gaps in his opponents' strings, plus it makes it impossible for an opponent to land a naked b3 or f3, and it's 12 % damage!
Trait: 5/5. He can use it for adding a lot more pressure, plus, he can use in the middle of a string, when blocking, to interrupt it and land a combo.
Damage: 1/3. Thanks to the last patches, his damage has been severely diminished. Still, his BnBs get the job done.
Zoning: 2/3. As long as he has bats, he can mix batarangs and bats for a very safe zoning. If he is next to an interactable like the one at the right corner of Ferris aircraft, he can do it for all eternity.
Anti-zoning: 3/3. His dash is very formidable, and while he gets next to his opponent, he charges the bats, so once he is close he can throw them to force his opponent to block while he starts his pressure game.
Mobility: 3/3. Like I said, his dash is very good, and he has some interesting tricks in the air, too.
Interactable object control: 3/3. M2Dave: I totally disagree with gadget characters being worse than power characters. Power characters can throw you some very damaging objects, yes, but gadget characters can change their position creating some spacing, plus they can perform some GREAT combos with interactables -check what McFly did with Batman-. I think Batman has the best combos with interactables, and maybe in a few months, we'll see them at the tournament matches.
Total: 26/30.

I think Batman is going to be a nightmare to almost everyone. Give him some time, and you'll be all crying for patches like you did with Kabal.

AQUAMAN

Offense: 5/5.
Defense: 3/5. It's not that bad, but it's not that good. He can punish pretty well thanks to his d1, but I do not see very good options for wakeup. He has a good anti-air with d2.
Trait: 5/5. Needless to say why.
Damage: 2/3. Thanks to the patches, he is not as badass as before.
Zoning: 2/3. From the deep is pretty slow, VERY punishable from upclose distance. Besides, if used properly, it can help you escape some zoning situations, and meterburned can take a lot of damage if you add another from the deep after the hit.
Anti-zoning: 1/3. Even if From the deep is helpful sometimes, it's not nearly enough, and the only option you actually have to zoning with Aquaman is dashing forward -you can go for a very, very risky Trident toss, but you must be pretty sure that your opponent is going to eat it-.
Mobility: 2/3. He is not bad at all, but he is not THAT good -he is a power character, after all-.
Interactable object control: 2/3. You can not go for VERY damaging combos with interactables, but there are some good BnBs, plus since he is a power character, he deals a lot more damage than a gadget character just using the interactables naked.
Total: 22/30.

I think Aquaman is a bit overrated, I do not think he is the best in the game, but I definitely consider him a very good character.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

DS is 5/5 in any aspect.
2 stronk.

 

[Groove Heaven]

General Zod

Offense: 3/5 - Zod's advancing normals are slow for the most part, and most of his mix-ups can be fuzzy-guarded. Zod's footsies are mainly meant to get the opponent away.
Defense: 4/5 - Zod can answer pressure with d12 into a couple good defensive specials. Maybe the best keep-away in the game. Zod charge can get him out of bad situations. Backdash is very good. No great anti-air normal or fast advancing normal.
Trait: 5/5 - One of the best for sure. Combo starter, mixup and setup starter, free interactables, free chip, free time-wasting with the life lead.
Damage: 2.5/3 - Meterless damage tops out around 35%, but his one-bars can do low to mid forties.
Zoning: 3/3 - Zod's strength. His kryptonian rifle can be instant aired or used on the ground to slow down an advancing opponent. Side arm is a good straight projectile with amazing recovery. Trait can hold opponent down and make them have to wait while you keep them out and do chip damage. Ground lazers threaten a low from full screen while trait threatens an overhead.
Anti-Zoning: 2/3 - Zod's projectiles are slow, but MB air kryptonian rifle pretty much lets Zod resume putting shit on the screen. With trait out, you can't even try to zone him.
Mobility: 2/3 - Abysmal walk speed and no air dash, but his great dashes make up for that. Zod Charge can escape the corner and create room.
Interactable: 3/3 - Trait gives him a free throw often. Zoning capabilities allow him to use them a lot.
Total: 24.5/30

 

[Pan1cMode]

I must agree with Ribz. If damage isn't 5/5 then trait surely shouldn't be.

 

[RiBBz22]

I must agree with Ribz. If damage isn't 5/5 then trait surely shouldn't be.

I respect this comment because it agrees with mine. RESPECT

 

[Rickyraws]

General M2Dave, I totally disagree with having some things be weighted at 3 and some things rated at 5...especially trait. KF's trait sucks but it doesn't hurt her in almost any MU...
Killer Frost

Offense: 5/5; Powerful vortex, safe low-launching special, d1 + on block, fast F3 launcher.
Defense: 4.5/5; Good zoning, 2 hit projectile, ice spike is a good counter zoning tool and can punish many things at distance, good wakeup game with slides invincibility, parry that leads to full combo, d1 + on block, 6 frame punisher. Can struggle against high mobility characters that can stay in the air.
ass and struggles against power characters on some stages. After the last balance patch it is not a major weakness IMO anymore.

Total: 21.5 / 30
Nice try though Mario.

Did someone say.....'slide'?

 

[RiBBz22]

Did someone say.....'slide'?

Is that photoslid or an actual picture of KF ice sliding? I really can't tell! Amazing job!

 

[ApocaLips]

I respect this comment because it agrees with mine. RESPECT

I brought the same issues up earlier. Dave makes some value judgments in the way things are scored which makes KF look bad under this system. It also doesn't account for synergy etc., so she's going to seem weaker in this format than she is. Not that this format is accurate for anything anyway.

If you're interested, my scores were pretty different than yours:

Offense - (Mine: 2/5) (Yours: 5/5): This has to mean offense in the neutral game. You're talking about vortex, which is really more appropriate under damage IMO. She's great at point blank and at about midscreen, but she's terrible in between IMO. Most characters can force her to stay right around there as well.
Defense - (Mine: 5/5) (Yours: 4.5/5): I don't see how this is questionable, KF has the best defensive tools in the game. MB Parry shuts down around half of the most-used moves in the neutral game, and her solid d2 and d1, along with MB b/f3 take care of everything else. Nearly every move in the game is a giant risk for the opponent, and KF makes all of it lead into expected damage that others would kill for.
Trait - we agree here. You can not use it all and be fine. Although the fact that this is a separate category when it should really be accounted for elsewhere just hurts KF.
Zoning - (Mine: 1.5/3) (Yours: 2.5/3) - I don't see how you can say that KF has some of the best zoning in the game. It serves her purposes well, but it's not her core gameplan like Zod, Sinestro, Harley, Raven, etc. Those characters are all likely 3s for zoning, and KF's is nowhere near there.
Anti-Zoning - we agree again. KF's ice spike screws up a lot of zoning options. Daggers trade favorably with most projectiles.
Mobility - (Mine: 1/3) (Yours: 2.5/3): I don't know what you're smoking here. Her dash and airdash are damn terrible. I mean, i guess she has an air dash, which means she at least has some other option to move, but both dashes are slow as hell. The distance covered is irrelevant when your opponent can knock you on your ass on reaction. Slide isn't really a mobility option because of its long recovery on whiff - it just threatens from a long range, which is different than being able to move at will. Her walk speed is also especially slow.
Interactables - (Mine: 0/3) (Yours: 1/3): the only thing we disagree on here is how susceptible she is to them post-patch. Even though most were nerfed all around, she still has huge problems when a power character sits on a nasty interactable. It's still going to mean she takes extra damage in almost any fight.

 

[RM Truth]

What is wrong with the scales?

30 - 25 = top tier
25 - 20 = mid tier
20 - < 15 = low tier

By my numbers that would make Batman mid tier. I'm not sure about that.

 

[RiBBz22]

I brought the same issues up earlier. Dave makes some value judgments in the way things are scored which makes KF look bad under this system. It also doesn't account for synergy etc., so she's going to seem weaker in this format than she is. Not that this format is accurate for anything anyway.

If you're interested, my scores were pretty different than yours:

Offense - (Mine: 2/5) (Yours: 5/5): This has to mean offense in the neutral game. You're talking about vortex, which is really more appropriate under damage IMO. She's great at point blank and at about midscreen, but she's terrible in between IMO. Most characters can force her to stay right around there as well.
Defense - (Mine: 5/5) (Yours: 4.5/5): I don't see how this is questionable, KF has the best defensive tools in the game. MB Parry shuts down around half of the most-used moves in the neutral game, and her solid d2 and d1, along with MB b/f3 take care of everything else. Nearly every move in the game is a giant risk for the opponent, and KF makes all of it lead into expected damage that others would kill for.
Trait - we agree here. You can not use it all and be fine. Although the fact that this is a separate category when it should really be accounted for elsewhere just hurts KF.
Zoning - (Mine: 1.5/3) (Yours: 2.5/3) - I don't see how you can say that KF has some of the best zoning in the game. It serves her purposes well, but it's not her core gameplan like Zod, Sinestro, Harley, Raven, etc. Those characters are all likely 3s for zoning, and KF's is nowhere near there.
Anti-Zoning - we agree again. KF's ice spike screws up a lot of zoning options. Daggers trade favorably with most projectiles.
Mobility - (Mine: 1/3) (Yours: 2.5/3): I don't know what you're smoking here. Her dash and airdash are damn terrible. I mean, i guess she has an air dash, which means she at least has some other option to move, but both dashes are slow as hell. The distance covered is irrelevant when your opponent can knock you on your ass on reaction. Slide isn't really a mobility option because of its long recovery on whiff - it just threatens from a long range, which is different than being able to move at will. Her walk speed is also especially slow.
Interactables - (Mine: 0/3) (Yours: 1/3): the only thing we disagree on here is how susceptible she is to them post-patch. Even though most were nerfed all around, she still has huge problems when a power character sits on a nasty interactable. It's still going to mean she takes extra damage in almost any fight.

Sorry I didn't see your post I just saw it in the morning and commented real quick and pointed out m2dave's system flaws. I only pointed out vortex because m2dave put it into his description under offense. I think it is questionable on where to put it, offense is fine I guess...You are right though if you aren't able to lump vortex into this the number takes a big hit as her normals are terrible aside from d1.

I think her zoning is actually pretty good, but obviously she is not a zoning character but it works pretty well with the rest of her game. I had this at 2, but then realized how low her rating was going to be so I increased it. Again, because of m2dave's flawed system. Interactables he said you couldn't use 0 so I used 1. Your points are immediately in question for not following directions . Her mobility is pretty good and she can runaway very effectively against a lot of characters. I also kind of factor in the distance that slide covers as part of her mobility. I wouldn't go lower than a 2 I mean she has better mobility than a lot of characters, but again was probably a victim of embellishment due to the rating system.

 

[PANDA]

SCORPION
Offense: 3/5 J1 all day
Defense: 2/5 no parries
Trait: 2.6/5 able to link into combos for dmg and resets
Damage: 1.7/3 sucks even post-patch
Zoning: 1/3 spear is slow and too negative on block. HF predictable
AntiZone: 2.8/3 Tele/MB Tele on rxn
Mobility: 1/3 same dash speeds as DS. can't jump like nigga adam
Interactable: 0.9/3 acrobat character is acrobatic...
Total: 15 / 30

BATGIRL
Offense: 4.2/5 mix-up strings, batwheel, but suffers from t-rex syndrome
Defense: 3/5 +1 for bat-evade. db3,2/db3,3 useful.
Trait: 2/5 hot garbage
Damage: 2/3 better than average, factoring in vortexes and corner dmg.
Zoning: 1/3 why does her batarang have to hit high, slow as fuck.
AntiZone: 2.5/3 tele on rxn
Mobility: 2/3 b-hop
Interactable: 1.8/3 gadget character is gadget
Total: 18.5 / 30

GRUNDY
Offense: 3.8/5 mixup strings but slow as fuck, decent reach, armor everything.
Defense: 3/5 good anti-airs(AA grab, D2...), WCC as offense and defense.
Trait: 4.5/5 grants power-up chains, can be combo'd into and meter-burned for ARMOUR.
Damage: 3/3 derp
Zoning: 0.7/3 swamp hands are too slow even though its + on block.
AntiZone: 0.7/3 swamp hands can be MB'd to catch them off guard but that's it. did i mention that its slow as fuck?
Mobility: 0.8/3 floaty jump, doesn't have Bane's backdash Q.Q
Interactable: 3/3 power character is powerful
Total: 19.5 / 30

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Deathstroke

Offense: 3/5 - has a lot of corner bullshit, f3 is mad bullshit, ji1 is mad bullshit, everything else is pret3ty much whatever.
Defense: 4/5 - d2 is pretty bullshit, does well as an anti air and is plus on block. jumping in on DS pretty much doesnt exist. his wakeups in general are pretty horseshit. j3 is pretty bullshit as well.
Trait: 1/5 - bar none the most useless trait in the game. i cant believe people actually get hit with those 132 setups since you can just push block. risk/reward is never in DS's favor. someone has yet to prove that this is actually good
Damage: 2/3 - gets pretty good meterless damage but it doesnt go much higher from there. i only gave it 2 instead of 1.5 since he lets you hold onto your meter for other shenanigans
Zoning: 2/3 - still gives a lot of characters a hard time even though there are a handful that can blow it up still not bad by any means.
AntiZone: 2/3 - high guns punish a lot of shit and low guns go under a lot of projectile nonsense. not the greatest damage but there can be free damage everywhere if people get reckless
Mobility: 3/3 - he has a shorter dash which is awesome since its easier to control where the hell you want him to be. also his goofy ass jump arc makes him able to jump out of a lot of things, such as pre patch superman's +1 breath.
Interactable: 3/3 - you can always check people for using interactables by shooting them in the face. the fact that hes a gadget character also gives him an extra bit of mobility and through most explody things you can confirm guns from full screen.
Total: 18/ 30

i'd say DS is solid upper mid. i think hes reasonable in this version of the game. if i grew a pair and sat down and practiced i think i can be pretty good

 

[ApocaLips]

Your points are immediately in question for not following directions .

Your points are immediately in question for following m2dave's directions .

I still totally disagree about mobility. She has a hard time getting in or out due to the bad frames on her dashes. And I get that she has good zoning, but is it really only a hair below the very very best? I don't think so.

 

[RiBBz22]

Your points are immediately in question for following m2dave's directions .

I still totally disagree about mobility. She has a hard time getting in or out due to the bad frames on her dashes. And I get that she has good zoning, but is it really only a hair below the very very best? I don't think so.

Haha I agree I should be on blast for following m2dave's flawed system. How many times have I said flawed system? Flawed system. Her mobility is good enough to get her into ranges where she can use slide to whiff punish. She doesn't need to get on top of people and pressure them. It is not bad, lol. If I was a Green Lantern or Lex player and saw KF with 1 I would scream. I would probably scream "flawed system".

 

[Chongo]

Nightwing:

Offense: 4/5- Very good normals and strings that are decently fast, good range, and safe on block (f213, 112, 113, b2, etc) but isn't so good at opening people up. He has no good lows in escrima, and no good overheads in staff. Pretty good corner game.

Defense: 3/5- In escrima he lacks good defense. His d2 is bad, and he lacks a fast poke. He has to make a read with his 6 frame standing 1, which is a high. In Staff he has it a little bit better. 6 frame d1 which leads to full combo on hit and + on block is nice, and staff d2 has a good hitbox.

Trait: 3.5/5- Turns him into a complete different character, with Escrima being the mobility and mixup stance (if you want to call crossup flipkicks mixups) and Staff being the ranged stance which can lock characters down. However some characters can completely nullify one of those two stances, meaning he has to stay in one stance and deal with those weaknesses. Also Staff has weaknesses that literally noone else in the game has to deal with. He cannot cross anyone up or grab any flying or floating intractables. Also good luck if you get knocked fullscreen against batman when you're in staff and you have barely any life left and he has full meter.

Damage: 2/3 - Around mid 30's for no meter in Escrima, which is decent. He needs meter to launch in staff but does around 41%. In the corner he can do 50% for two bars and end it with a hard knockdown which gives him safejumps and u3 crossups and more.

Zoning: 2/3 - His zoning is decent. Wingdings are hella negative but you can delay MB them to create a guessing game, however some characters it's just a bad idea to use them. Ground Spark is a low, does decent damage and is safe (-4) on block. Ground blast is a tracking low that is +9 on block and mb is +18.

Anti Zoning: 1/3 - Don't get stuck full screen against Cyborg or Sinestro.

Mobility: 1.5/3 - Has bad walk speeds in both stances, decent dashes in escrima but god awful dashes in staff. Flying Grayson does well to cover distance. Also his escrima jump is pretty bad.

Interactables: 2-3 - He's an acrobatic character, but he has good ways at dealing with interactables and uses them fairly well.

19.5/30

Edit: If meterbuilding was a category (which is should be) he'd probably get a 3/3 for that.

 

[M2Dave]

General M2Dave, I totally disagree with having some things be weighted at 3 and some things rated at 5...especially trait. KF's trait sucks but it doesn't hurt her in almost any MU...

But what about Aquaman, Batman, Sinestro, and Zod who are highly trait dependent characters? If trait is only worth 3 points, they will not acquire the points they need to be where they should be.

I do like your numbers whereas ApocaLips is continuously downplaying.

How are Killer Frost's zoning tools "average"? She basically has Kano's old knife toss and one of the best anti-zoning tools in iceberg.

 

[KRYS9984]

By my numbers that would make Batman mid tier. I'm not sure about that.

My previous post for Batman (reply #148) put him at 24 points which would be higher-mid tier according to the results.

However, I was being conservative; I feel that Batman could have a few 0.5's added to bump up the final score to 25 - 25.5 (didn't want to appear as an up-player).

This would ultimately put him in the high tier category where he belongs (Top 10 but not Top 5).

 

[PANDA]

ok i just edited my post for you mofos
http://testyourmight.com/threads/rate-your-main-injustice-character-s.39872/page-8#post-1224555

 

[RM Truth]

My previous post for Batman (reply #148) put him at 24 points which would be higher-mid tier according to the results.

However, I was being conservative; I feel that Batman could have a few 0.5's added to bump up the final score to 25 - 25.5 (didn't want to appear as an up-player).

This would ultimately put him in the high tier category where he belongs (Top 10 but not Top 5).

I feel that my #s are pretty accurate. That being said, I still think that he is a top 10 character.

 

[ApocaLips]

Deathstroke

Offense: (5/5) - great j3, high/low mixup in b1u2 vs b2 or f3, decent dash to get in
Defense: (5/5) - MBb3 is tops, and d1~sword spin gets anyone off of you into an awkward range for them. Sword spin for wakeups and generally safe gtfo. And sword flip.
Trait: (5/5) - free unblockable damage from the right setup
Damage: (3/3) - has great abare
Zoning: (10/3) - low gun shots too stronk combined with high shots and air shots
Anti-Zoning: (10/3) - straight shots are so fast that they screw up almost everyone's zoning game
Mobility: (3/3) - solid dash and sword flip get him anywhere. Not that it matters since he can put a hitbox anywhere on the screen on a moment's notice.
Interactables: (3/3) - gadget characters are the new power characters with their resets and shit.

Total: 44/30. This character is beyond perfect. He's also the most fun character in the game, mostly due to how much fun it is to watch dave rage about him.

Clearly DS needs more nerfs.

 

[KRYS9984]

General M2Dave Do you think adding a couple more options to your scale would offer a better result as to where someone can place their character?

Perhaps something that looks like this:

30 - 25 = S+ Tier (possible top 5 material)

25 - 20 = S Tier (possible Top 10 material)

20 - 15 = Depending on score, character can be considered high tier, upper mid or mid tier.

15 - 10 = Depending on score, character can be considered mid tier, lower mid or low tier.

< 10 = Baby Jesus save this characters.

Just a thought.

 

[EnergyKD]

Green Lantern
Offense- 4/5 Too gimmicky to get a 5 like Batman, nice high low mixups
Defense- 4/5 Try jumping
Trait- 5/5 Nice buff for his specials and damage, super fast recovery
Damage- 2/3 Decent damage with main BnB being 40%ish but not grundy level
Anti Zone- 0/3 watch DJT88 vs KDZ
Zone- 2/3 If you like Zoning with oa rockets
Mobility- 1/3 Shit mobility
Interactable- 3/3 I pick things up and put them down
Total: 21

IGN - "His okay"
10/10

 

[Red Reaper]

Offense (3/5) Solid Frame Advantage but requires konditioning (since they kan fuzzy guard) and arrows for 50/50's. Lacks good footsie tools to keep the offense going from anywhere but klose range. Most of his moves kan be jumped out of and punished so this limits him even further. Has fast long range dash to start his offense and a long range jump 3.

Defense (4/5) Low hitbox and good hitbox on his AA but slow start up. Backdash doesn't travel far which both hinders and helps him depending on the match up.

Trait (3/5) Arrow's trait is a big part of his game and it's pretty good in some instances. However, unlike plenty of other traits, it doesn't build up over time to bring something better. It requires manual loading which kan leave him vulnerable. So often times (like in the Batman match up), as he attempts to get in or run away, time is on the opponent's side.

Damage (1.5/3) Arrow doesn't do the highest damage in general and he doesn't particularly kontrol stages to mitigate this (with interactable damage). He does do good damage with meter but in order to get this you usually have to start with his low range 111 starter or a jump 3. For the meter it requires and kompared to other characters, isn't that much damage.

Zoning (1.5/3) His arrows recover really fast. However, they only do 1% on hit and he requires manual loading for better Arrows. Savage Blast is great at keeping some characters at bay but due to the start up frames of his arrows and the fact that he has to load him, he usually has to get in for most match ups. He typically loses the zoning wars since a basic arrow (on hit) does less damage than blocking an opponents projectile. Even loaded Arrows don't do much chip damage.

Anti-Zoning (2/3) Low arrows now properly lower his hitbox so this allows for kounter zoning. He also has a fast long range forward dash to get in. The frame advantage on low arrows is pretty low (pun intended) so it doesn't allow him a free dash in but generally helps him aim his own arrows (on hit).

Mobility (3/3) Jumping isn't that great but on the ground he has all the tools he kan ask for.

Interactable Object Control (1/3) Doesn't kontrol space well. Is usually to busy trying to run away from the few characters that he kan zone or is trying hard to get in while floaty jumping over interactables.. Arrows take time to aim so quickly attempting a kounter to stage interactable isn't quite feasible. Staying aiming to scout an interactable is both noticable and punishable since he kan't block while aiming.

Total: 19 / 30


Let me know what you guys think..
SimSim
Jimmypotato
Scoot Magee
7L

 

[Red Reaper]

General M2Dave Do you think adding a couple more options to your scale would offer a better result as to where someone can place their character?

Perhaps something that looks like this:

30 - 25 = S+ Tier (possible top 5 material)

25 - 20 = S Tier (possible Top 10 material)

20 - 15 = Depending on score, character can be considered high tier, upper mid or mid tier.

15 - 10 = Depending on score, character can be considered mid tier, lower mid or low tier.

< 10 = Baby Jesus save this characters.

Just a thought.

That sounds much better. Arrow is around the grey line of mid or lower mid tier and I put him at ~19 so this sounds about right.