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Clearing Up Community Misconceptions

coolwhip

Master
That's fine, but people had seen the problems imbalance caused once and didn't want to stake the future of the community on a coin flip of "maybe it will/maybe it won't" happen again. The truth is that the SoCal scene was in serious trouble, the midwest scene was in trouble, and other scenes were flagging as well until the changes were made. That's strictly on a factual basis; people just weren't showing up.

It's like you're riding in a car that's speeding at 70mph in a rainstorm and you're telling everyone to relax because you might get lucky and it might not result in an accident. After hydroplaning and being in a serious wreck once, that's a chance I will never take again.
Midwest was in trouble because they initially just didn't like the game as much as MK. Not because of any balancing issues. With the exception of M2Dave, they were actually those who weren't crying about Scorpion (obviously since PL, Slips, Bit, etc...). Chicago in general just struggled to get into the game until after EVO. Though I agree that F23 killed the hype for a short while. There was a post-EVO lull in some scenes. The difference of course, is that Superman was proven to be too much after dominating EVO. Scorpion was never allowed to prove whether he's that broken or not. But regardless, that is really not the point.

Anyway, at the risk of being redundant, I'll reiterate my point one last time: Everyone should have been been demanding nerfs for Scorp and Superman. I don't dispute that. But just throwing around "do this or else the game will DIE" is just done way too liberally, for the slightest inconvenience. The same applies for "quitting" the game. I'm not familiar with other scenes, but I really don't think they are as trigger-happy with threatening to quit the game, or announce their intentions to do it as frequently as the MK community. Hell, I wouldn't mind it if anyone actually ever stuck to their decision to quit.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Midwest was in trouble because they initially just didn't like the game as much as MK. Not because of any balancing issues. With the exception of M2Dave, they were actually those who weren't crying about Scorpion (obviously since PL, Slips, Bit, etc...). Chicago in general just struggled to get into the game until after EVO. Though I agree that F23 killed the hype for a short while. There was a post-EVO lull in some scenes. The difference of course, is that Superman was proven to be too much after dominating EVO. Scorpion was never allowed to prove whether he's that broken or not. But that is really not the point regardless.
That's your personal view -- but I have friends in that scene that I catch with up on a regular basis, that have said clearly multiple times that the patch and renewed chances for new characters to win was a major factor in revitalizing the scene. I'm not guessing at this; it's straight from the source.

And as for Scorpion, Slips said he needed to be toned down -- I'm sure both Slips and MIT would rather be playing a footsies/reads scorpion than a jumping-bean random tele Scorpion, because that's what they were both known for and enjoyed in MK9. MIT and I have already talked about this. REO clearly said he didn't enjoy playing that way and felt not enough thinking was required. The guy who won South East Asia Majors said likewise. No one wanted Scorpion to be what he was metagame-wise.. Except maybe PL :)
 
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coolwhip

Master
That's your personal view -- but I have friends in that scene that I catch up on a regular basis, that have said clearly multiple times that the patch and renewed chances for new characters to win was a major factor in revitalizing the scene. I'm not guessing at this; it's straight fro the source.
Dude, listen, I like debating things with you because you know, you're actually intelligent. But you continue to ignore basic points, while coming up with others that I never disputed. The patch absolutely renewed interest in Injustice. When did I ever debate this? What I'm saying though, is that Chicago initially struggled to get into the game because they didn't really like the mechanics (I'm just repeating what 16 Bit and Dizzy said, which is pretty much straight from the source. To be clear, 16 Bit wasn't speaking for himself, but for his teammates). Moreover, they actually started enjoying the game a couple of months before the big patch (I remember 16 Bit's appearance on the KCP with REO and Pig, and he specifically talked about that). Something happened (maybe it was the realization that MK was officially done after EVO), and they gave Injustice a chance and actually started liking it. It was in fact in August when they started doing the weekly tournaments too. This too, is a fact, and this too, is straight from the source (being the stream!). Of course, the patch only made things better, especially since many guys over there play characters that weren't considered top tier, so it certainly made them even more excited to play the game.

I just really don't see how any of that is relevant to what I said. Essentially you're saying "had it not been for the patch, the game would have been in trouble." Well...yeah. Did anyone really ever think otherwise? Did anyone really think that BA, Superman, KF and others should have been left untouched (except guys that played BA and Sups that is). Or that Ares, Lobo and Shazam didn't deserve buffs? Except, we all knew that NRS would be patching the game all along. From day 1, we knew there would be constant patches because NRS said as much, and because we've seen it in MK. So why on earth was everyone suggesting the game would die? That's my whole problem, and that was my one and only point (before you took it in different, irrelevant directions). You're trying to convince me that the patch was beneficial. You don't need to. I know it was. Except we always knew there would be many patches, which makes all the death claims all the more baffling. To use your car analogy, it's as if I'm speeding at 100mph but I know for a fact that I'll get there safely (say I have a crystal ball), yet I'm freaking out that I won't, for some reason. The reasonable thing to do would have been to wait for the patch and then see if it would "save" the game or not. And that's not to say that suggestions for the patch shouldn't have been made. But there's a difference between that and claiming a game would die after a tournament, which we've seen a hundred times. The game was supposed to die after CEO because of Scorpion, then die after EVO because of Sups, then die because NRS kept delaying the patch details, and now it's going to die after NEC. My question is, why? We knew there would be patches after CEO and EVO. And so far, there's little to suggest that it would die after NEC (unless you care to contradict your OP).

And as for Scorpion, Slips said he needed to be toned down -- I'm sure both Slips and MIT would rather be playing a footsies/reads scorpion than a jumping-bean random tele Scorpion, because that's what they were both known for and enjoyed in MK9. MIT and I have already talked about this. No one wanted Scorpion to be what he was.. Except maybe PL :)
Again, when did anyone (except maybe PL :) ) dispute that Scorpion needed to be toned down? So what's the point you're making exactly here? I'll repeat: Scorpion should have been toned down. Of course, I only said that in about every single post I've made about the topic.

PS: you took a shot at PL but neglected to praise REO. Isn't there a rule here that you have to praise him at least once in any post that goes beyond 100 words? :)
 
Why don't people just armored B3 MMH's overhead teleport on reaction?

You can see the startup frames on both versions of his teleport.

They even buffed the universal damage on Armored F3 and B3 starters in the latest patch.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Something happened (maybe it was the realization that MK was officially done after EVO), and they gave it a chance and actually started liking it. It was in fact in August when they started doing the weekly tournaments too. This too, is a fact, and this too, is straight from the source (being the stream!).
Well, this isn't a debate here again because I'm speaking from the source. 'Something happened'.. Yup, I wonder what it was. Take a second and think about when guys had to be putting in most of the work on the patch in order to release in October. Consider that guys were already playing with the changes at work at this time and were excited about what they'd mean for the game and the roster. Then consider that half of the guys live together or are in close proximity to each other and discuss these things. Put the pieces together and it'll make sense.

You are guessing -- I am not. Already had these discussions with the people involved. Nothing to argue unless you want to argue with them.
 

coolwhip

Master
Well, this isn't a debate here again because I'm speaking from the source. 'Something happened'.. Yup, I wonder what it was. Take a second and think about when guys had to be putting in most of the work on the patch in order to release in October. Consider that guys were already playing with the changes at work at this time and were excited about what they'd mean for the game and the roster. Then consider that half of the guys live together and are in close proximity to each other and discuss these things. Put the pieces together and it'll make sense.

You are guessing -- I am not. Nothing to argue unless you want to argue with them.
That still doesn't contradict any of what I said one bit, especially since I didn't even disagree. Yeah, they knew there would be a big patch and I'm sure they had more details than the rest of us. As a result, they started getting into the game. So?

How does that negate the fact that EVERYONE knew there would be a big patch all along, and thus, all the "the game is going to die" talk (which GGA never subscribed to, in fairness) is even more stupid since WE KNEW THERE WOULD BE A HUGE PATCH. Good grief, how is that so difficult to comprehend?

You're still trying to convince me that the patch saved the game and got many interested in it. I'm still trying to convince you that I AGREE, and I never disputed that. Except that there was always going to be a patch. The patch was not some NRS knee-jerk reaction to all the stupid "Injustice will die after X tournament talk." And everyone knew there would be a patch. So why on earth were they predicting it was going to die?

Now, if you can get an answer to THIS question "from the source," I'd very much appreciate it. Until then, and until you bother realizing what the hell I'm talking about, I'm done with this. I get it, you have sources. Bravo. CNN on alert. What you don't get, is my point.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
You're still trying to convince me that the patch saved the game and got many interested in it. I'm still trying to convince you that I AGREE, and I never disputed that. Except that there was always going to be a patch. The patch was not some NRS knee-jerk reaction to all the stupid "Injustice will die after X tournament talk." And everyone knew there would be a patch. So why on earth were they predicting it was going to die?
No one knew how good the patch would be (and there were a lot of people who weren't holding out high hopes -- I won't name names). Except, there were some people who already knew how good the patch was going to be, for specific reasons :)

The game didn't get new life just because 'it was patched' or because 'people knew it would be patched'.. It's because people felt they did a good job with it, once they were aware of the changes. It was the first time I've seen a "Congratulations NRS/Thank You NRS" thread here in months.

The effect could have easily gone the opposite way if the patch had been a mess.

Not really much more for me to say on this.
 
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TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
Well I have to say this, I have tried to be reasonable on this site and all I see is a community filled hate. We have Top Players thats rant on about their own shennaigans and even try to convice others why we should all hate a game and everytime a new game drops we have to scream for the next Kabal or for the next broken character. SHit this game has a large degree of balance in it and yet poeple can't just accept shit, they have work harder and harder on breaking it more, because god forbid is the game doesn't have a broken character. I'm Done with this site plain and simple, I shall now just play the games I like and enjoy and move on from there. This site has way too many imature folks that just can't get over themselves or accept others don't share the exact same views as another.
 

coolwhip

Master
No one knew how good the patch would be (and there were a lot of people who weren't holding out high hopes -- I won't name names). Except, there were some people who already knew how good the patch was going to be, for specific reasons :)

The game didn't get new life just because 'it was patched' or because 'people knew it would be patched'.. It's because people felt they did a good job, once they were aware of the changes.

Not really much more for me to say on this.
Fair enough. But those who didn't know "how good the patch was going to be" could have at least waited to see how the good the patch was going to be, before predicting the game's demise. I mean we'll both agree it would have been the reasonable thing to do (not to mention, many of the guys who were freaking out about the game's death had ties to NRS themselves, and had friends in Chicago. So I'm sure they had their sources, and should have used them).

As I said, it comes down to an issue of gross overreaction. The same overreaction to Scorpion is literally being recreated now with MMH. Just replace MB tele with OH tele, and replace "banned" with "nerfed." Replace "CEO/EVO" with "NEC." It's literally the same debacle, only a little less over the top. If you were a bit in line with the Scorpion movement (since you say many would have quit as a result), then using the same logic, you should be in line with the MMH movement. As I said, I actually don't agree with the MMH thing. I think he should be nerfed (as I did with Scorp), but I don't think he's going to lead to the game's death. And judging by the OP, you agree with me too. If people didn't quit because of Kabal, they're not going to quit because of MMH.
 

ThaShiveGeek

Est In Harvey 1989
[quote="If people didn't quit because of Kabal, they're not going to quit because of MMH.[/quote]

You both are right, and this statement sums it up.
 

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
oh the irony of this thread being called 'clearing up community misconceptions' when all it's done is confuse things even further. there's far too many people who use this site for a way to take out their silly frustrations and petty grievances.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
If people didn't quit because of Kabal, they're not going to quit because of MMH.
I hear you.

Just be aware that there are many people who have much lower tolerances for IGAU than they did for MK9 -- the reason why is that they spent two years putting up with and struggling against certain things that they will probably never put up with again. People were excited about a new game because of the possibility of fixing the issues of the old one. Likewise all the people from outside communities who eventually heavily criticized MK9 were ready to write off IGAU from the very start if it had any semblance of similar problems.

MK9 had a longer honeymoon/love affair because it was a surprise -- hey a new, great 2d MK game with more refined mechanics, a slick new look and deeper/better gameplay. It was also a "first love" high-level-wise for a lot of people. But any issues in IGAU that resemble older ones have a "last-straw" effect for a lot of the most dedicated players; thus the strong reactions.

Likewise, when MK10 drops, people will be much more critical faster than ever. It will face a level of scrutiny that hasn't been seen yet because it's the sequel to the game that started a lot of what we have now. Expectations are high and patience will be short.

The reason I agree about MMH is that, character design-wise, he seems far more tolerable (despite his teleport, he still has to make use of his entire toolset to have an effective metagame -- and he was designed with an array of useful, interesting tools, which is more in line with Kabal than the Scorpion situation). Either way I think that IGAU is fine for the forseeable future; but we'll see!

Dude, listen, I like debating things with you because you know, you're actually intelligent.
Likewise :)
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Why don't people just armored B3 MMH's overhead teleport on reaction?

You can see the startup frames on both versions of his teleport.

They even buffed the universal damage on Armored F3 and B3 starters in the latest patch.
If he throws an orb then the teleport will hit you. Plus he can just wait for you to whiff something and catch you on recovery frames.