Clearing Up Community Misconceptions

[Tom Brady]

you are making the game look bad if everytime you mention mk, all you talk about is the problems.

I talked good about MK9 for almost 3 years. Going forward i still never bashed it, I just gave the serious issues that are present, which in turn is seen as bashing.

NO ONE will ever tell me that a game where you cant even fucking hit Down + a button consistently is a game that IGAU didnt live up to, hence players dont play it as much.

 

[Big Pampering]

I talked good about MK9 for almost 3 years. Going forward i still never bashed it, I just gave the serious issues that are present, which in turn is seen as bashing.

NO ONE will ever tell me that a game where you cant even fucking hit Down + a button consistently is a game that IGAU didnt live up to, hence players dont play it as much.

I respect that, and I am aware of the 8-2 matchups like kenshi vs subzero and props for repping that low tier. But at the same time some players in mk would cry if they have to play a slight disadvantage matchup, god forbid they have to play a 6-4 matchups. Also back then we would allow kabal and kenshi players pick rooftop day at every damn tournament as if they didnt have enough advantage in the matchup. At the very least in injustice the community decided on random stage being the tournament standard.

 

[trustinme]

Exactly lol. 9-1's are completely bullshit

what in mk9 or in general for fighters?

 

[REO]

I feel like some people have a point when talking about MK9's balance. Maybe the game's balance wasn't as bad as some tried to exaggerate it. Maybe the game did come down to more on player skill than character tier (which is a recipe for a good game). Even a character like Kabal could be seen as not that bad because there was only one player making the character consistently look like an "S+ character". What if he was just another top tier character? Same can be said for Kenshi. Only AK Pig Of The Hut was making the character look like a problem that needed to be addressed. Go down the list of characters and you will find this true for many characters. Tournament results with character variety spoke volumes on it's own. Having mid tiers like Mileena, Sub-Zero, Shang, etc. place consistently in tournaments meant we had something we took for granted.

We all shouldn't have pushed MK9 off the boat for Injustice. We should have shared the boat. But I'm afraid at this point the life vest will not reach the part of the ocean MK9 sunk in.

 

[Tom Brady]

I respect that, and I am aware of the 8-2 matchups like kenshi vs subzero and props for repping that low tier. But at the same time some players in mk would cry if they have to play a slight disadvantage matchup, god forbid they have to play a 6-4 matchups. Also back then we would allow kabal and kenshi players pick rooftop day at every damn tournament as if they didnt have enough advantage in the matchup. At the very least in injustice the community decided on random stage being the tournament standard.

I feel like some people have a point when talking about MK9's balance. Maybe the game's balance wasn't as bad as some tried to exaggerate it. Maybe the game did come down to more on player skill than character tier (which is a recipe for a good game). Even a character like Kabal could be seen as not that bad because there was only one player making the character consistently look like an "S+ character". What if he was just another top tier character? Same can be said for Kenshi. Only AK Pig Of The Hut was making the character look like a problem that needed to be addressed. Go down the list of characters and you will find this true for many characters. Tournament results with character variety spoke volumes on it's own. Having mid tiers like Mileena, Sub-Zero, Shang, etc. place consistently in tournaments meant we had something we took for granted.

We all shouldn't have pushed MK9 off the boat for Injustice. We should have shared the boat. But I'm afraid at this point the life vest will not reach the part of the ocean MK9 sunk in.

It was never the mu's that killed MK9, it was everything else. To play a bottom tier character, fight the best match of your life in a 7-3 or 8-2 mu, then lose because of something like an input bug? You feel cheated. The WORST feeling isnt losing, I can respect losing when I throw it all at you and you still come out on top. But to lose when you have a 1% lead with 2 seconds left, you try to crouch under a high kitana fan to avoid the chip, and the game makes you stand up because of system issues... stuff like that killed MK9...

 

[CrimsonShadow]

We all shouldn't have pushed MK9 off the boat for Injustice. We should have shared the boat. But I'm afraid at this point the life vest will not reach the part of the ocean MK9 sunk in.

I know what you mean, but:

Honestly I don't think anyone pushed MK9 of the boat.. It was falling off the boat anyway, for about a year's time, and people were playing it because there was nothing else similar. People expressed real issues with the game that were unable to be dealt with due to time, budget, or whatever else.

Doesn't mean that it was a bad game, but a lot of people had big, legitimate issues and had been making that clear for months.

So once there was something else to play, a lot of people simply said the goodbye they'd been holding back for months while we were begging people to register for tournaments and keep the game alive so that people could donate their travel dollars to being hit by 90% resets.

 

[Tom Brady]

Shall I go on?

How about attacks that are normally 0 or - on block that randomly become +10?

How about doing a mu by saying "ermac has a high hit box, he loses to jax because of the random adv on f413 causing a block infinite"....

No one cares about shit mu's, its manly the system issues and how those issues caused shit mu's, rather than the character tools actually causing some of them.

 

[SonicFox5000]

who will you learn matchup with if there is no one to play against? Online? oh please!!

Actuallllyyyyyyy

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Actuallllyyyyyyy

 

[REO]

It was never the mu's that killed MK9, it was everything else. To play a bottom tier character, fight the best match of your life in a 7-3 or 8-2 mu, then lose because of something like an input bug? You feel cheated. The WORST feeling isnt losing, I can respect losing when I throw it all at you and you still come out on top. But to lose when you have a 1% lead with 2 seconds left, you try to crouch under a high kitana fan to avoid the chip, and the game makes you stand up because of system issues... stuff like that killed MK9...

Well, the same exact thing could be said for Injustice on PS3, which some tournaments are still run on. Let's say you're playing a character like Cyborg vs MMH, it's bad enough the match is 8-2 already, but when you factor in the random slow downs, this makes the match incredibly unfair. You go hit someone with a combo while you're on your last pixel, and then the game randomly slows down causing you to drop it and they win. Or Cyborg could read an overhead teleport from MMH and nope, game decided to randomly slow down at that time. GG.

You could be playing a character like Lobo in Injustice, block something crouching and immediately go to punish or poke back with his b+1, game says "LOL, YOU MEAN D,B,1 AIR THROW, RIGHT?". Aquaman then full combos you on whiff with b+1. GG. Come again. I've had this happen to me so many times with many characters, costing me games and the best of a lot of situations.

And don't get me started on a ton of misinformed frame data lingering about. It gives players the wrong idea and forces either further and extensive testing, or to just go with your "gut feeling". I think at this point it would be better to pay no attention to the in-game frame data and wait for someone to come along that can give us 100% accurate tested frame data we can go by.

Then you have the wake-up bugs in the corner where many wake-ups will either not come out or go in opposite direction because someone is dashing forward. OK, cool. I didn't know some characters randomly become Sabrewulf in the corner. Good to know the wake-up game designed to get you off the ground on a read is eliminated in the corner due to an exploit.

Every game has it's problems and issues, but I don't see the need to drop them if you're having fun. That's all that should matter. When it comes down to it, both are good games at the end of the day.

 

[SonicFox5000]

Same here.
I've barely, baaaarely been able to get in any decent playing time the last couple of months other than these last couple of days, and between Doomsday, Grundy and Scorpion, I did a LOT better collectively than I was expecting. Because - online and its woes aside - I've studied the game's mechanics and inner workings enough to know that, unlike in MK where being a Kabal or a Kano player was the difference between life and death, knowledge of the metagame itself is a hell of a lot more important than who you're going into battle with. There are still going to be terrible matchups, it's inevitable, but as R.E.O. tried to tell everyone quite some time ago, this game is a LOT more balanced and deep than most people are willing to give it credit for.
As far as things to do to hold us over until MK10 go, this is better than any of us would've otherwise been sane enough to hope for.

But my fucking god, do I hate Batgirl.
Is it just me? I feel like I can't possibly be the only one who wants to see this woman end up on the wrong end of Joffrey's crossbow. ( SwiftTomHanks )
I would honestly rather have to fight 600 MMH's, every day for the rest of my life, naked, upside down, and forced to listen to Chief Keef on repeat, than EVER run into a Batgirl in tournament.
Do you know why I have never had a problem with Killer Frost? As ridiculous as her design is and a much of a pain in the ass as it i to guess through her shenanigans?
BECAUSE SHE ISN'T BATGIRL.

I'm sorry. I'm done. Promise.

-pet- There there

.......

 

[Tom Brady]

Well, the same exact thing could be said for Injustice on PS3, which some tournaments are still run on. Let's say you're playing a character like Cyborg vs MMH, it's bad enough the match is 8-2 already, but when you factor in the random slow downs, this makes the match incredibly unfair. You go hit someone with a combo while you're on your last pixel, and then the game randomly slows down causing you to drop it and they win. Or Cyborg could read an overhead teleport from MMH and nope, game decided to randomly slow down at that time. GG.

You could be playing a character like Lobo in Injustice, block something crouching and immediately go to punish or poke back with his b+1, game says "LOL, YOU MEAN D,B,1 AIR THROW, RIGHT?". Aquaman then full combos you on whiff with b+1. GG. Come again. I've had this happen to me so many times with many characters, costing me games and the best of a lot of situations.

Every game has it's problems and issues, but I don't see the need to drop them if you're having fun. That's all that should matter. When it comes down to it, both are good games at the end of the day.

I agree.. I was playing on ps3 yesterday and the slowdown on some stages is ridiculous. Also agree about the inputs giving you db. However... MK9 had slowdown on psn to the point that people actually banned stages. MK9 also had the same issue as IGAU where you can get db instead or crouching then standing and getting B+ the attack. I can remember countless times where maxter would do an air throw and look at me and say "Poppy.. I did a D1". So, MK9 has those same issues as IGAU and more..

Playing on xbox fixes the slowdown issues. The issue of getting db instead of crouching then B + an attack is an overall NRS thing with Mk style commands.

 

[SonicFox5000]

I agree.. I was playing on ps3 yesterday and the slowdown on some stages is ridiculous. Also agree about the inputs giving you db. However... MK9 had slowdown on psn to the point that people actually banned stages. MK9 also had the same issue as IGAU where you can get db instead or crouching then standing and getting B+ the attack. I can remember countless times where maxter would do an air throw and look at me and say "Poppy.. I did a D1". So, MK9 has those same issues as IGAU and more..

Playing on xbox fixes the slowdown issues. The issue of getting db instead of crouching then B + an attack is an overall NRS thing with Mk style commands.

Lol you KNOW theres a problem when even if your playing offline it still lags ;_;

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

what in mk9 or in general for fighters?

In general, even tho i guess MK9 & UMVC3 are the only games with 1-9 MUs

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

I agree.. I was playing on ps3 yesterday and the slowdown on some stages is ridiculous. Also agree about the inputs giving you db. However... MK9 had slowdown on psn to the point that people actually banned stages. MK9 also had the same issue as IGAU where you can get db instead or crouching then standing and getting B+ the attack. I can remember countless times where maxter would do an air throw and look at me and say "Poppy.. I did a D1". So, MK9 has those same issues as IGAU and more..

Playing on xbox fixes the slowdown issues. The issue of getting db instead of crouching then B + an attack is an overall NRS thing with Mk style commands.

Ya when I played xbladez at SCR it lagged when I did Freddy's ex hell spike and I missed my 40% combo. I hadn't played Freddy on ps3 ever so i didnt know this happened. Would have changed the match for sure

 

[KDZ]

..................

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

-pet- There there

.......

I'm pretty sure if I see you in my pool on Saturday, I'm just gonna polish off my whiskey and call it a day.
The hell with that. I <3 you, man, but everytime I watch that vortex, I want to punch a kitten.

That being said, it makes it that much more satisfying learning the MU and kicking her overly happy ass.

And everything Reo just said is 100% on point. There are times when I fuck up, and times when I KNOW I'm not scrubbish enough to do some of the shit this game churns out when I go to work. The whole reason I dropped Deathstroke as a main and never seriously picked up Black Adam is because of how inconsistent they can be on PS3.
BA's B23 into 112 Magic works maybe half the time no matter what stance I'm in. Swear on my soul, it doesn't matter how I time it, it works when it wants to.
And between 323 + F23 Flip doing the same, and my iA Shots damn near never coming out at the height I want them to, it was easier just to put the work in on more consistent characters like Doomsday and Grundy.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

All I ever hear from tom about mk9 since inj release is constant negativity. Which is fine he brings up points to show why he feels this way, but when cdjr, pig, or pl do the same to inj we have to scrutinize them. Yeah I do think pig and jr went to far with the paulo stuff but fuck what do I know. they travel for the game, and constantly lab for the game especially pig.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

a wild KDZ appeared

 

[Tom Brady]

All I have ever head from tom about mk9 since inj release have all been negative. Which is fine he brings up points to show why he feels this way, but when cdjr, pig, or pl do same to inj we have to scrutinize them. Yeah I do think pig and jr went to far with paulo stuff but fuck what do I know. they travel for the game, and constantly lab for the game especially pig.

Im not bashing MK9, I'm just calling out the "IGAU didnt live up to MK9" BS as a cop out. Cant hit D+a button, and IGAU dropped the ball? STOP...

MK9 was good, and I enjoyed it. IGAU is good, and I enjoy it as well..

 

[Tom Brady]

TomlulsBrady
There is also a big difference in just bashing the shit out of a game, and ppl THINKING you are bashing a game simply by listing the actual system issues. IMO it says a lot when people read nothing but system issues and think "this is describing a bad game, YOU BASHER". That fact that listing off system issues has people believe a bad game is being described without actually ever saying the game is bad says A LOT.

MK9 isnt a bad game, and its also a fun game...

 

[THTB]

TomlulsBrady
There is also a big difference in just bashing the shit out of a game, and ppl THINKING you are bashing a game simply by listing the actual system issues. IMO it says a lot when people read nothing but system issues and think "this is describing a bad game, YOU BASHER". That fact that listing off system issues has people believe a bad game is being described without actually ever saying the game is bad says A LOT.

MK9 isnt a bad game, and its also a fun game...

Exactly. A lot of games have system issues. Is it saying the game is bad? No.

SFIV isn't even exempt from input bugs, and the unblockables bug needs no further explanation. These things happen. They may go unfixed, which is unfortunate, but listing them isn't saying the game is bad. I've said that these issues exist and people don't want to deal with them a number of times before. That's not bashing the game, that's just stating facts lol.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

TomlulsBrady
There is also a big difference in just bashing the shit out of a game, and ppl THINKING you are bashing a game simply by listing the actual system issues. IMO it says a lot when people read nothing but system issues and think "this is describing a bad game, YOU BASHER". That fact that listing off system issues has people believe a bad game is being described without actually ever saying the game is bad says A LOT.

MK9 isnt a bad game, and its also a fun game...

I understand that. I am not talking about how you perceive mk9 as a whole all I am saying is since Inj release when ever mk9 brought up you talk about it in a negative light which is fine I do think your valid about your complaints.

Though I did find it funny how on that one episode of the krptyonite podcast you were talking about how good it is to go to evo and not worry about matchups like you did in mk9 than a couple eps later you blamed the balance as the sole reason for you not placing up to your expectations at multiply tournaments including EVO, and that you were ready to quit the game if Black adam and supes didn't get nerf, and now pig basically feels that exact same way you did except with MMH but yet you have pll who go 0-2 on this site telling hes out of line.

 

[TheSpore]

Every game has issues nothing is perfect. I will say this in IGAU I feel the match isn't decided on the selection screen I feel for once I stand a smidge of a chance whoever I main. In MK9 I mained Mileena and though I've heard of people that can be successful with her I just never could do well and I spent a large degree of time on the character now I hated having to do this because Mileena has always been my most favorite of the cast in MK ever, but now I have to use Sonya just to feel I stand a chance. No game should have MU numbers like those mentioned by Tom Brady and R.E.O. made good points as well. I still love the game and I find it sad that many of us have to just drop one for the other, IMO wherever we see an IGAU tourney MK9 should right there as well considering many of us came from MK so many of us are players of both.

What I do disagree with is these MK vs IGAU comparisons, the two games just truly do not compare they really are very different from each other and both play totally different. The issue still exists with too many players trying to play IGAU as if it was MK9 when you can't they do not play the same at all. Look I wouldn't try to play SF like MK because I would get bodied all the time. I do feel at times that some of these problem characters from MK9 if we had banned them we likely could have saved the game's life some, I know coming from the spectator side of things many of us just got tired of watching Kabal and Cyrax matches, or Kung Lao vs Sonya.

Personally IMO and my opinion alone I just feel like IGAU is a better game in general. Oh yeah and Tom I don't get where the AM is just the greatest A-Hole in the game business is coming from, because that character is good, but he is not the best of the game. I still don't feel MMH is on the Kabal level of IGAU. I say we all just play our games have fun for once instead having a dick measuring contest on which game is better, because in the end its all subjective...

 

[Tom Brady]

I understand that. I am not talking about how you perceive mk9 as a whole all I am saying is since Inj release when ever mk9 brought up you talk about it in a negative light which is fine I do think your valid about your complaints.

Though I did find it funny how on that one episode of the krptyonite podcast you were talking about how good it is to go to evo and not worry about matchups like you did in mk9 than a couple eps later you blamed the balance as the sole reason for you not placing up to your expectations at multiply tournaments including EVO, and that you were ready to quit the game if Black adam and supes didn't get nerf, and now pig basically feels that exact same way you did except with MMH but yet you have pll who go 0-2 on this site telling hes out of line.

I wasnt trying to blame balance... 2 characters NEEDED to be normalized to be consistent with the ongoing changes. It was like the days of dealing with Kabal when he had all his tools + a block inf, or KL when he did 90% per combo with 2 bars or 70% in the corner with no meter. I mean, poor Mr. Aquaman's Ares getting BLOCK INFINITED by Superman on stream is a game killer. Makes ppl say "yup.. whens the next FG coming out?"...

However, I had faith and didnt quit and didnt call for anyone's job. I stayed the coarse and sucked up the bullshit the the community loves to heap on its most popular players. When idiots heap shit on me, I carry the shit, not throw it on developers.