Match-up Discussion Lex Luthor Matchup Discussion (Version 1.06)

[Tony at Home]

Yeah, I can't even come up with any of my usual online-warrior-theory-fighter BS that would be a solution to Sinestro. It's so bad.

On the plus side, I CAN think of some of my online-warrior-theory-fighter BS that would help against the Raven matchup. I'm working on another morbidly-obese not-tested-in-actual-matches strategy thread about it right now....

 

[Tony at Home]

Aaaaand here's the stuff I found when working with Raven.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/lex-vs-raven-part-1.39327/

I hope it's good, but it's so hard to account for everything a real player might do by just messing around in practice mode. I did try to take EVERYTHING into account, which is why the thread is massive and has 6 videos, but it's definitely possible Raven has some options to counter this that I didn't think of.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

I'm really emo about the sinestro matchup. I think it might be 2-8 even though I hate saying that. If lex can't get started right away and push it to the corner he is so fundamentally fucked and you might as well not even play. It feels like a kenshi situation from mk9 where lex can definitely beat most sinestros and feel like a 4-6 mu, but when you play someone like cowboy who really understands how to use that character to shut him down it becomes absolutely terrible. Like, I know right now if I had to play someone like cowboy in tournament I would lose and it's not even worth the time. But if I'm just an idiot let me know too.

I've been saying that since Week 2 man And I'm not even a Lex downplayer lol. (Actually, does the Lex community even have a downplayer not named 5Star? )

 

[rev0lver]

Yeah, I can't even come up with any of my usual online-warrior-theory-fighter BS that would be a solution to Sinestro. It's so bad.

On the plus side, I CAN think of some of my online-warrior-theory-fighter BS that would help against the Raven matchup. I'm working on another morbidly-obese not-tested-in-actual-matches strategy thread about it right now....

Raven is annoying as fuck but it's not terrible. Against all of the other zoners you can move around and get in and start doing stuff. Then there's Sinestro's trait that's like the best anti-lex rushdown thing in the game outside Superman w/ trait and Bane w/ level 3 venom.

 

[rev0lver]

I've been saying that since Week 2 man And I'm not even a Lex downplayer lol. (Actually, does the Lex community even have a downplayer not named 5Star? )

Lol I like that we don't downplay for the most part. I upplay a lot but I'm still realistic about matchups and want to figure out how to make them all better. Sinestro is just horrible.

 

[PPJ]

weird opinion but i always thought lex beats raven

 

[Tony at Home]

Yes! PPJ says it- now I don't feel like I belong in a mental asylum for thinking it.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Just played an incredible Joker online. Seems to out zone Lex using teeth to keep you away while spamming guns and littering in a few gas canisters.

When he knocked me down he would always do teeth and either block my wakeup causing a popup or jump over me with j3 causing a very VERY hard to block situation.

The only way I could beat the guy was to get lucky and get a small life lead. Once I made him come after me it wasn't so bad but going after him was a joke. Couldn't keep armor up, couldn't get anything on screen, j3 mostly nullified by joker throwing out close teeth.

Any of you guys played a REALLY good Joker? Just wondering how you handeled it.

 

[Tony at Home]

Just played an incredible Joker online. Seems to out zone Lex using teeth to keep you away while spamming guns and littering in a few gas canisters.

When he knocked me down he would always do teeth and either block my wakeup causing a popup or jump over me with j3 causing a very VERY hard to block situation.

The only way I could beat the guy was to get lucky and get a small life lead. Once I made him come after me it wasn't so bad but going after him was a joke. Couldn't keep armor up, couldn't get anything on screen, j3 mostly nullified by joker throwing out close teeth.

Any of you guys played a REALLY good Joker? Just wondering how you handled it.

I've ran into some really nasty Joker players online- one that was reeeeaaaally good with using the teeth with background bounces- basically looped me till I finally got lucky and blocked it or corp-charged out of it. He had some filthy stuff on the corner.

But yeah, the few times I managed to win was because I could get the life lead and turtle him out. Joker doesn't really have a good way to open people up….

Also, what's with his shin-kick/body-flip thing? For whatever reason, sometimes that crosses up on me and sometimes it doesn't. It happened around 25% of the time- he would do the flip and land behind me.

 

[Tony at Home]

Does anyone here have an answer for what to do against a Batman after a blocked b3? Is there any way for me to prevent him from getting a completely-free j2 other than corp-charging (which is a bit risky)?

I played multiple Batman's online this weekend. They both loved to go for a b3, and a j2 after I blocked the initial b3.

I couldn't anti-air with standing-2 in time (sometimes it hit but it was inconsistent, I think it only hit because the Batman player was a bit slow a couple times)
11 was whiffing randomly, but sometimes hitting.
I couldn't backlash in time either.

It was bad because I don't want to deal with those trait-cancel-strings, and with the range on that b3, I basically had to preemptively yol0-corp-charge a lot at mid-range just to avoid having to block it

 

[Qwark28]

I've ran into some really nasty Joker players online- one that was reeeeaaaally good with using the teeth with background bounces- basically looped me till I finally got lucky and blocked it or corp-charged out of it. He had some filthy stuff on the corner.

But yeah, the few times I managed to win was because I could get the life lead and turtle him out. Joker doesn't really have a good way to open people up….

Also, what's with his shin-kick/body-flip thing? For whatever reason, sometimes that crosses up on me and sometimes it doesn't. It happened around 25% of the time- he would do the flip and land behind me.

it depends on the distance, look it up in practice mode

 

[Spacepopsicle]

Does anyone here have an answer for what to do against a Batman after a blocked b3? Is there any way for me to prevent him from getting a completely-free j2 other than corp-charging (which is a bit risky)?

I played multiple Batman's online this weekend. They both loved to go for a b3, and a j2 after I blocked the initial b3.

I couldn't anti-air with standing-2 in time (sometimes it hit but it was inconsistent, I think it only hit because the Batman player was a bit slow a couple times)
11 was whiffing randomly, but sometimes hitting.
I couldn't backlash in time either.

It was bad because I don't want to deal with those trait-cancel-strings, and with the range on that b3, I basically had to preemptively yol0-corp-charge a lot at mid-range just to avoid having to block it

After a b3? man the spacing is huge and BM jump is so high, uppercut (d2) that shit all day

 

[rev0lver]

Does anyone here have an answer for what to do against a Batman after a blocked b3? Is there any way for me to prevent him from getting a completely-free j2 other than corp-charging (which is a bit risky)?

corp charge

 

[Tony at Home]

After a b3? man the spacing is huge and BM jump is so high, uppercut (d2) that shit all day

Thanks, that should work.

Lmao dunno why I didnt think of trying that. I guess I'm so used to anti-airing with standing-2 I totally forgot d2 was an option.

 

[Spacepopsicle]

I can't find the MU charts we have but KF, is so ridiculously good, (sorry RibzZz) and fuckin brain-dead. lets go fullscreen and send out 2 daggers that break shield and if I catch you jumping can do 25%, lets go in with my safe forward advancing low combo starter that leads to a vortex both of which vortex options (low-slide high-F3) are safe on block, fuck it. You knock me down? slide with those inv frames. Why don't I bait it? Cause a competent KF wont always do it and just back up to double dagger zoning, this MU is such an uphill climb, I got KF in a combo? sweet time to go for a reset, slide will break everything, and going for max damage leaves KF either full screen or again knockdown fearing slide. Can Lex do anything to her?

 

[ShadowBeatz]

I can't find the MU charts we have but KF, is so ridiculously good, (sorry RibzZz) and fuckin brain-dead. lets go fullscreen and send out 2 daggers that break shield and if I catch you jumping can do 25%, lets go in with my safe forward advancing low combo starter that leads to a vortex both of which vortex options (low-slide high-F3) are safe on block, fuck it. You knock me down? slide with those inv frames. Why don't I bait it? Cause a competent KF wont always do it and just back up to double dagger zoning, this MU is such an uphill climb, I got KF in a combo? sweet time to go for a reset, slide will break everything, and going for max damage leaves KF either full screen or again knockdown fearing slide. Can Lex do anything to her?

I used to have a lot of problems with Frost. I'm not going to throw a MU number out there, but shield destroys her slide, and so does a jump-back 3 if you read the slide. Yeah, the daggers are a pain, but you just have to avoid them :/ I'd write more, but I'm tired

 

[T4T|Nevan]

I agree with Shadow, getting trait and make the most use of it its crucial to this matchup, it negates all her wakeups. Oh except her parry I think.

After getting into her vortex, it's her f3 hard to react to?

 

[Tony at Home]

After a b3? man the spacing is huge and BM jump is so high, uppercut (d2) that shit all day

So I tried this out using a friend to help test as Batman, and it only seemed to work half the time (note that my friend isn't experienced with this game so he may not have been doing the inputs as fast as he could)

So after a blocked b3 from Batman, if Batman jumped and did a j2 that hit in front of Lex, a d2 would catch him. However, if Batman jumped and did a j2 that crossed lex up, the d2 would whiff. It seems that until Batman does the j2, his hit box is not big enough to be hit by the d2, so if he doesn't do the j2 until Lex is crossed up, it hits Lex and can't be AA'd by d2 most of the time.

So basically it was a 50/50 that Lex would AA Batman, and because the only thing Lex can get is a shitty d2-scaled combo, it tends to trade in Batman's favor


I guess I'll opt to following up that blocked b3 with a corp charge and hope it isn't sniffed out.

 

[Galactic Geek]

If someone tries a crossup by jumping in, if you can read it in time, I find that u+3 works wonders & even gets you a free Lex probe or gravity mine.

 

[rev0lver]

So I got bored and updated Black Adam, MMH, and Sinestro in the OP. Then somehow everyone after Raven got deleted. Fuck

My Sinestro strategy was "pick a different character" though so maybe it doesn't matter.

 

[rev0lver]

weird opinion but i always thought lex beats raven

Yes! PPJ says it- now I don't feel like I belong in a mental asylum for thinking it.

I don't mean to say this to invalidate what you do against Raven, but you guys need to play Blind_Man

 

[Blind_Ducky]

I don't mean to say this to invalidate what you do against Raven, but you guys need to play Blind_Man

Naw man I'm a fraud according to testyourpatience

But in all seriousness there is no fucking way lex beats Raven

 

[Fromundaman]

Naw man I'm a fraud according to testyourpatience

But in all seriousness there is no fucking way lex beats Raven

I sadly don't have the luxury of playing the best raven around, but I do play one semi-regularly and it always felt even-ish to me or slightly in Raven's favor.


I'm not trying to disagree per se, but I would like to understand what makes the matchup so terrible.

 

[Tony at Home]

I still get destroyed by Ravens, but it doesn't feel as bad as Sinestro.

Demon stance really gets me- feels like I can't do anything about it if I don't react quickly enough to the initial activation. If I don't get shields up, BEST CASE scenario is I eat around 15% chip damage and she builds insane meter doing it.

But otherwise I'm in the boat of not understanding why its a horrible matchup. Her wake ups are bad and that always a big thing for Lex.

I was just playing a Deathstroke player online and was reminded what happens when the opponent has wake-ups that get them out of freaking EVERYTHING.

I did manage to play a good Raven online, and I'll update my Lex vs Raven theory-thread accordingly with part 2: "Demon Stance, and how it pretty much fucks up everything Lex does"….

 

[Fromundaman]

But here's the thing: Demon stance seems to be just a two way mindgame.

Pillars do a shit ton of chip and build good meter, but they have to be manually aimed, which means the Raven has to guess where you are/will be and you have to guess where she'll fire. If you properly dash out of a pillar, you can CC if in range or start traiting and dash cancel. Yes her next move will break the armor, but it just got you 2 free dashes and depending on the distance a punish.

Now of course, that gets blown up by the full screen grab (Event horizon right?), but the grab does damn near no chip and doesn't generate *that* much meter, so you can safely block that forever and ever and be fine, and with every blocked attempt you're wasting out some of the trait.

The teleport can be reacted to and you can attempt to punish whatever she does out of it or just stay still and block (Although that option gets blown up by teleport>grab, though that gets blown up by a neutral jump).


All I see is basically a full screen guessing game. Now yes, the risk reward is heavily skewed in Raven's favor if she's full screen with trait, but that doesn't really seem horrible at all, especially since if we have a trait up when she activates it we can eat any one attack for free, allowing us to get in easier.