Aw, C'mon Puddin' -- Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

[nightE89]

I'm prob gonna start getting back into it since NEC is next month fuck time flies

 

[Ramon]

i'll see you there then.

 

[rpg]

Who is this killer frost player =D

 

[CommonNick]

i remember the arguments about this and how hard "my" combos were to be BNBs. It's actually why i stopped contributing so count me out. sorry.

Reconsider. please.
I don't know who are the other members but I've been practicing your combos for hours, and now it's working like magic

To all Harley players:
# We need stage combos(Bounce/interactibles)
# starters section and combos off TS1 section (everything together just looks bad)
# Different enders which lead to different setups.

But to tell the truth, I find it harder to start a combo than to score high dmg. Some people know Harley's setups and know how to block/react to Harley's mixups (which suck btw) no good pressure tools either, so it's kinda hard to hit them, so tips to how to "open" your opponent will be appreciated (because it feels like Harley needs to open her opponent and not wait for openings)

New Harley player, still learning the ropes!

 

[Ramon]

exactly why i never promoted going for her "resets"

 

[CommonNick]

exactly why i never promoted going for her "resets"

I rarely reset, PD(MB) most of the time, but that was not my problem. The lack of mix-up and pressure makes her use her zoning tools to "open" the opponent, I got some tricks(nj - air gun shots-->nj2 if they dash in, nothing special), but there are many, and I'd like to hear about more.

And plz quote me next time so I'll get a notification...

 

[serge]

When you are fighting an opponent that knows how to block Harley's game you need to get into his mind. For exemple, what I do after ending a combo with 112x silly slide, I use F2 to mix my opponent up. If it hits, good I get a 40% combo! If it gets blocked, that's also good because it almost garantees my next mix up to hit. Here's why. After the silly slide, you are holding forward to get the F2. So your opponent sees you walking forward before F2. That's his clue to block overhead. But what happens when you 112 x silly slide, walk forward a step or 2 to make you opponent think you are going overhead but after walking forward 2 steps you suddenly go B22? BAM 40% COMBO! And now he's scared as shit when he sees you walking 2 steps after silly slide.

If he starts using wake ups, MB B3 after silly slide.

 

[Ramon]

When you are fighting an opponent that knows how to block Harley's game you need to get into his mind. For exemple, what I do after ending a combo with 112x silly slide, I use F2 to mix my opponent up. If it hits, good I get a 40% combo! If it gets blocked, that's also good because it almost garantees my next mix up to hit. Here's why. After the silly slide, you are holding forward to get the F2. So your opponent sees you walking forward before F2. That's his clue to block overhead. But what happens when you 112 x silly slide, walk forward a step or 2 to make you opponent think you are going overhead but after walking forward 2 steps you suddenly go B22? BAM 40% COMBO! And now he's scared as shit when he sees you walking 2 steps after silly slide.

If he starts using wake ups, MB B3 after silly slide.

this is what is wrong with this forum. NO RESETS! IT DOESN'T WORK! You cannot pass this on veteran players, and the players you can get it off on, you should be able to beat anyways. Valid mixups are much simpler than you think.

JI2, B22 and JI2, with a momentary pause, B22 is very much valid. You can also punish all jump-ins with b2 since JI's are - on landing.

 

[CommonNick]

When you are fighting an opponent that knows how to block Harley's game you need to get into his mind. For exemple, what I do after ending a combo with 112x silly slide, I use F2 to mix my opponent up. If it hits, good I get a 40% combo! If it gets blocked, that's also good because it almost garantees my next mix up to hit. Here's why. After the silly slide, you are holding forward to get the F2. So your opponent sees you walking forward before F2. That's his clue to block overhead. But what happens when you 112 x silly slide, walk forward a step or 2 to make you opponent think you are going overhead but after walking forward 2 steps you suddenly go B22? BAM 40% COMBO! And now he's scared as shit when he sees you walking 2 steps after silly slide.

If he starts using wake ups, MB B3 after silly slide.

That's why I said she has terrible mix-up game. F2 has 27 start-up! you can even block it online on reaction. (now offline, it's freaking easy to block)

 

[CommonNick]

this is what is wrong with this forum. NO RESETS! IT DOESN'T WORK! You cannot pass this on veteran players, and the players you can get it off on, you should be able to beat anyways. Valid mixups are much simpler than you think.

JI2, B22 and JI2, with a momentary pause, B22 is very much valid. You can also punish all jump-ins with b2 since JI's are - on landing.

Than at least give me something to work with! Come on, it won't take long.
The best I can get against good players is MB B3(47%) or poking with d1xxTS1~combo(41%), which is okay, but not enough...... (not talking about wiff punishing)

 

[serge]

I guess the last 11 months I've spent testing the game vs Snafoo from street fighter was not real and all those mix ups only worked in my dreams. Got it, thanks Ramon!

 

[FlipinFlava]

I guess the last 11 months I've spent testing the game vs Snafoo from street fighter was not real and all those mix ups only worked in my dreams. Got it, thanks Ramon!

tbf, in a tournament setting her resets aren't very reliable

sure they work fine in long casual sets; i can land my resets fine against the people i play with often too, but that's more because i've played with them so much that i know how to read and predict their actions more so than against a stranger

harley's resets aren't particularly good enough to bother trying to establish in something like a ft2 tournament setting

 

[uhfutzafooken]

You can also punish all jump-ins with b2 since JI's are - on landing.

Depends on the jump-in, I think most J3s are actually positive, as are a few J2s.

 

[Ramon]

I guess the last 11 months I've spent testing the game vs Snafoo from street fighter was not real and all those mix ups only worked in my dreams. Got it, thanks Ramon!

by all means. try it against Rico, KDZ, ChrisG, Arma, Fran, Faux, Grr, PLEASE! wait have you gone to tournaments?

 

[deg222]

If it hits, good I get a 40% combo! If it gets blocked, that's also good because it almost garantees my next mix up to hit. Here's why. After the silly slide, you are holding forward to get the F2. So your opponent sees you walking forward before F2. That's his clue to block overhead. But what happens when you 112 x silly slide, walk forward a step or 2 to make you opponent think you are going overhead but after walking forward 2 steps you suddenly go B22? BAM 40% COMBO! And now he's scared as shit when he sees you walking 2 steps after silly slide.

If he starts using wake ups, MB B3 after silly slide.

Yeah, f2 is not a mixup, as CommonNick said it's 27 frames on startup, that's half a second to react to the animation.... not reacting to any forward walk animation. I'll give you that you can catch people off guard with a f2 if you use it sparingly, but not 5 times a match as I've seen some Harley's do. Harley's pressure game is all about frame traps now, utilizing 112, 33, f23 xx SS, using b2 to make your opponent's normal whiff, etc.

 

[Ramon]

Yeah, f2 is not a mixup, as CommonNick said it's 27 frames on startup, that's half a second to react to the animation.... not reacting to any forward walk animation. I'll give you that you can catch people off guard with a f2 if you use it sparingly, but not 5 times a match as I've seen some Harley's do. Harley's pressure game is all about frame traps now, utilizing 112, 33, f23 xx SS, using b2 to make your opponent's normal whiff, etc.

exactly. i throw it out to get my opponent into "fuzzy guard" mode and just start delaying my b22

 

[uhfutzafooken]

Yeah, f2 is not a mixup, as CommonNick said it's 27 frames on startup, that's half a second to react to the animation.... not reacting to any forward walk animation. I'll give you that you can catch people off guard with a f2 if you use it sparingly, but not 5 times a match as I've seen some Harley's do. Harley's pressure game is all about frame traps now, utilizing 112, 33, f23 xx SS, using b2 to make your opponent's normal whiff, etc.

How positive is F23xxSS? I tested it awhile back against Corp charge and was only able to beat it out if I cancelled the slide into TS.

 

[Laos_boy]

How positive is F23xxSS? I tested it awhile back against Corp charge and was only able to beat it out if I cancelled the slide into TS.

Its like ~+4

 

[Kabbage]

by all means. try it against Rico, KDZ, ChrisG, Arma, Fran, Faux, Grr, PLEASE! wait have you gone to tournaments?

I took KDZ to 5 at the last tourney I went to. Tough stuff, even if he was just fucking around with his batgirl before switching over to supes for the last match (pre-patch).

But yea, attempting Harley's "resets" aren't such a hot idea against those guys.

 

[CommonNick]

New avatar yeah that's it

 

[CommonNick]

Yeah, f2 is not a mixup, as CommonNick said it's 27 frames on startup, that's half a second to react to the animation.... not reacting to any forward walk animation. I'll give you that you can catch people off guard with a f2 if you use it sparingly, but not 5 times a match as I've seen some Harley's do. Harley's pressure game is all about frame traps now, utilizing 112, 33, f23 xx SS, using b2 to make your opponent's normal whiff, etc.

Frame traps? I never use frame traps. Can you type when 112,33,F23xxSS are useful as frame traps? (I never use F2 and 33, and I use 112 only as a punish or as a combo ender)
I mean, I usually zone(most of the match) and wait for openings with J2/D1/B2/B3(MB).

I got a long way to go =.=

 

[Jermball]

112, 33, f23 xx ss are useful because they leave you in positive frame state, meaning based on the block advantage you will be able to move ?/60 frames before your opponent, so this can potentially throw off timing where someone thinks youre unsafe when you're not, or allow you throw another move out before your opponent, and if they press a button, you will most likely win based on the start up frame of the next move you use.

example.
33 is +8 on block. so if you throw out a D1 which is a 7 frame start up, you WILL beat your opponent out unless they somehow buffer a MB B3 which even so i think is not possible because there is still 1 frame left over they can't do anything about. F23 xx SS gives a false pressure approach, it makes the opponent think you're going to try to silly slide tantrum stance, when thats not the case at all, silly slide for some reason makes people flinch because it starts up in 0 frames. lmao, you can't react to silly slide start up. 112 is great because 1 is her fastest start up poke, and although it's a high, you can create a fuzzy guard situation to deal with that. Also the last 2 gunshots will still hit your opponent if you whiff a 112.

 

[CommonNick]

112, 33, f23 xx ss are useful because they leave you in positive frame state, meaning based on the block advantage you will be able to move ?/60 frames before your opponent, so this can potentially throw off timing where someone thinks youre unsafe when you're not, or allow you throw another move out before your opponent, and if they press a button, you will most likely win based on the start up frame of the next move you use.

example.
33 is +8 on block. so if you throw out a D1 which is a 7 frame start up, you WILL beat your opponent out unless they somehow buffer a MB B3 which even so i think is not possible because there is still 1 frame left over they can't do anything about. F23 xx SS gives a false pressure approach, it makes the opponent think you're going to try to silly slide tantrum stance, when thats not the case at all, silly slide for some reason makes people flinch because it starts up in 0 frames. lmao, you can't react to silly slide start up. 112 is great because 1 is her fastest start up poke, and although it's a high, you can create a fuzzy guard situation to deal with that. Also the last 2 gunshots will still hit your opponent if you whiff a 112.

Thanks, but that's not what I'm asking, what I don't understand is when should I use these attacks, because while I'm playing, F2 and 3 seems too slow to be useful and after 112 I usually jump in 3 but it's not really a frame-trap.

 

[Ramon]

i do it when i know my opponent will be blocking heavily. you can see me do it in a couple of my videos.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]