Sajam's NW Matchup Chart (Subject To Change)

[xInfra Deadx]

NW's staff zoning is strong against Ares, he struggles dealing with any pressure from NW because of bad backdash/wake up options. Godsmack can be backdashed/flying grayson'd out of on reaction. Ares can get going in this matchup with a decent setup and a good teleport, but he lacks real speed/mobility to make it happen often enough.

Well I guess I need to run into better Nightwings then...

 

[Sajam]

Not unless on a read, J3 reaches very far and very fast and can be done before he even reaches max height, at which point he is +-1/2

can NW do 48% with his combos? thats the damage joker does with J2 and he can get up to 29% meterless/35% 1 bar off of a J3 on hit

J3 is an awesome aspect of joker because it has great advantage, its like a ridiculously awesome JIP.

By vortex I mean this setup, its nearly 100% a guess if the sweep is done at lowest height and sometimes not even the joker player will know which side hes gonna end up in. http://testyourmight.com/threads/huge-new-ambiguous-crossup-tech.35875/

Both have answers to each other but i dont feel NW has something that straight up breaks the fundamentals of jokers gameplan, especially since joker loves low mobility in his zoners and a sub par aerial game compared to J3

NW can air to air with jump back 2. He can even confirm off of it with forward j2 into 1 flying grayson for like a 30% air to air. His d2 in staff is also good enough to AA Joker's j3 in a lot of situations.

NW can get mid 40's off of a hit in staff for a bar off of a jump in, or 39% meterless. In escrima he gets about 23% that leads into setups that can do 40ish or 20s that lead back into themselves.

I actually saw that post, but I thought NW could escape with flying grayson in most situations. Still, outside of that setup very few are tough to deal with, and while in staff flying grayson can get out of a lot of them. The more the NW player panics, the better it gets for Joker I think. He has the tools to fight Joker, but a few wrong guesses can make this matchup harder than it needs to be.

 

[Qwark28]

NW can air to air with jump back 2. He can even confirm off of it with forward j2 into 1 flying grayson for like a 30% air to air. His d2 in staff is also good enough to AA Joker's j3 in a lot of situations.

NW can get mid 40's off of a hit in staff for a bar off of a jump in, or 39% meterless. In escrima he gets about 23% that leads into setups that can do 40ish or 20s that lead back into themselves.

I actually saw that post, but I thought NW could escape with flying grayson in most situations. Still, outside of that setup very few are tough to deal with, and while in staff flying grayson can get out of a lot of them. The more the NW player panics, the better it gets for Joker I think. He has the tools to fight Joker, but a few wrong guesses can make this matchup harder than it needs to be.

flying grayson i have tested and he does not get out, you can also bait it for a better punish than the air to air you'd get but its still free damage for joker

Noone in the game can AA joker J3 when done before he has even reached max height, its a situation where you wont even have time to get out of your pre jump frames, much less J2.

Try it in practice mode, you cannot react to it unless you know its knowing and you still do it pre emptively.

NW won't AA joker that much because joker has no reason to delay a J3, J3 works by giving you more advantage the deeper you do it, at deepest its +13 or so while at the apex of the jump its +3 or so, he can easily just get in with a neutral framed early J3 or +1 to beat your own D1 with his.

are you on XBL by chance? online is not the best place but i can give you a feel of how i play this matchup.

 

[Sajam]

flying grayson i have tested and he does not get out, you can also bait it for a better punish than the air to air you'd get but its still free damage for joker

Noone in the game can AA joker J3 when done before he has even reached max height, its a situation where you wont even have time to get out of your pre jump frames, much less J2.

Try it in practice mode, you cannot react to it unless you know its knowing and you still do it pre emptively.

NW won't AA joker that much because joker has no reason to delay a J3, J3 works by giving you more advantage the deeper you do it, at deepest its +13 or so while at the apex of the jump its +3 or so, he can easily just get in with a neutral framed early J3 or +1 to beat your own D1 with his.

are you on XBL by chance? online is not the best place but i can give you a feel of how i play this matchup.

I meant preemptive jump back 2, or b1 at a distance. Jump back 2 on reaction isn't really that effective against Joker I've found. Also, doing jump back 2 has very little risk to NW, and creates more space to zone with. Even if he does get in with j3, I feel comfortable enough when Joker's in to not panic.

I'd play, but I'm from SoCal so I have doubts about the quality of both of our experiences. No harm in trying I guess.

 

[Qwark28]

I meant preemptive jump back 2, or b1 at a distance. Jump back 2 on reaction isn't really that effective against Joker I've found. Also, doing jump back 2 has very little risk to NW, and creates more space to zone with. Even if he does get in with j3, I feel comfortable enough when Joker's in to not panic.

I'd play, but I'm from SoCal so I have doubts about the quality of both of our experiences. No harm in trying I guess.

yeah i agree then thats you can read and beat J3 with a combo like you said but you kinda see the problem when youre trying to fly around poking with a stick like a chimpanzee while joker might not even do that


my GT is qwark28, ill be on sometime later

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Favorable in every MU but the ones that count.

 

[Jay Rupp]

Why is DS 4-6?

It is 4-6, I body NWs without DS's superior zoning.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk

 

[Braindead]

NW: 5-5 (6-4 in escrima's favor, under most circumstances)

can we reflect on the beauty of that line for a second?
NW vs NW MU actually has some stuff u can discuss.
reasons to love NW eh?

 

[Wasted]

Hawkgirl is still 3-7. Almost as bad as Superman, you can't really catch her without really outplaying the player.

The D2 buffs to Escrima don't mean much if you can't get beneath her - D2 hits really really late in its animation and her wakeups ruin you. Even if you make her correct wakeup mace charge and she flies in the other direction, you can't catch her.

 

[Sajam]

can we reflect on the beauty of that line for a second?
NW vs NW MU actually has some stuff u can discuss.
reasons to love NW eh?

And the mirror is one of my favorite matchups.

Neither character start with Black, and end with Adam, or have a large S on their chest.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

NW does not win against catwoman. ill explain in further detail once I have the time.

I can kinda see why from experience with this serious Catwoman player, but Im sure the guys here got a solution for her rush down antics.

 

[Rand0mG4mer]

Since Harley MU is 5-5 what can she do against him?

 

[Lumpymoomilk]

Agreed about Lobo, escrima is kind of annoying but manageable, but staff stance is where the match just gets frustrating.

 

[Sajam]

So I just updated the chart now that the patch has been out a while.

I don't really care about the numbers, but as I was creating the chart/fixing the numbers I was breaking down each matchup a lot. Now I'm gonna focus on writing out each MU and what both characters can do in the MU. That's a work in progress, but I'll get there.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

GL 4-6
Sinestro 3-7

C'mon dawggg....c'mon...

 

[Qwark28]

I strongly believe Joker goes even with NW

 

[Sajam]

GL 4-6
Sinestro 3-7

C'mon dawggg....c'mon...

It's true.

Wound has NW/Sinestro as 3-7 also, and I just played Chef's GL again the other day and beat him. NW does absolutely fine against GL man, you just gotta be patient and make good reads.

 

[CptXecution]

I'm curious about your thoughts on the GL MU.

 

[Sajam]

I'm curious about your thoughts on the GL MU.

NW outzones him pretty badly. He can stay in escrima and throw ground sparks all day, and once GL attempts to jump rocket over them, NW can dash cancel ground spark and punish air rocket by getting under it.

The ability to duck GL's projectiles and be more mobile in zoning is really nice against him. Once you're point blank NW also wins, but it's in between point blank distance and full screen where GL starts to do well. The threat of b13 and lift to punish badly spaced wing dings without meter gives NW issues. Once GL walks you to the corner, NW is also in a really rough spot, but if you can avoid that situation and keep GL away then NW does fine.

 

[Syknis]

Batgirl is 5-5 to me. They both have 6-4 situations in the matchup

I have Aquaman as 6-4 Nightwing, but I haven't played a great aquaman in a long time.

Batman definitely 5-5. Get stuck full screen and you are fucked.

Other than that a really solid list. I really agree with the Doomsday 5-5. He just has to much mobility and armor to effectively feel comfortable doing anything.

That, and his splash negates a lot of Nightwings wakeups.

Play my Aquaman dude. I'm curious

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I strongly believe Joker goes even with NW

At the highest level of play I agree w this. u beat my ass, ur the better player obviously, but with the tools they both have i see it goin even. I can beat ur black Adam tho which is odd hahah.

 

[Qwark28]

At the highest level of play I agree w this. u beat my ass, ur the better player obviously, but with the tools they both have i see it goin even. I can beat ur black Adam tho which is odd hahah.

hadnt played BA in 2 months, just started using him this past week, i definitely need him for some matchups

IMO nightwing is not that scary when it comes to joker, whether its staff or escrima but escrima is definitely the best stance of 2 in this MU

 

[Sajam]

Snip

We'd have to play before I change my mind to heavily.

It sucks that our connections don't work out either, because I'd be curious to play the MU myself. You also have to remember that with two stances certain NW players might be better with one than the other. So it might just depend on who you play which stance works best for them.

 

[Qwark28]

We'd have to play before I change my mind to heavily.

It sucks that our connections don't work out either, because I'd be curious to play the MU myself. You also have to remember that with two stances certain NW players might be better with one than the other. So it might just depend on who you play which stance works best for them.

I don't judge from online much because some players don't adjust to it and both character have significantly less matchups and general reaction time

going from setups and general risk/reward, joker has a lot more continuous offense and punishment going, as well as a counter to everything in staff stance.

That's not to say nightwing doesn't have good shit too, it's just much more seeable, one exception being the hot sauce setup maybe

 

[Sajam]

I don't judge from online much because some players don't adjust to it and both character have significantly less matchups and general reaction time

going from setups and general risk/reward, joker has a lot more continuous offense and punishment going, as well as a counter to everything in staff stance.

NW has strong setups and get goings just as fast, but it depends on what the NW player is going for.

It just depends on what setups/stance that player is comfortable with. I could see some people trying to play the MU in escrima ducking gun shot with ground spark and trying to anti air with well placed wing dings or staying in staff. Or trying to go in with escrima to switch into staff and bait parry/use stand 1 into ground pound to maintain frame advantage and keep Joker grounded. Almost every NW player plays different, so it depends on the player.