Sajam's NW Matchup Chart (Subject To Change)

[Qwark28]

NW has strong setups and get goings just as fast, but it depends on what the NW player is going for.

It just depends on what setups/stance that player is comfortable with. I could see some people trying to play the MU in escrima ducking gun shot with ground spark and trying to anti air with well placed wing dings or staying in staff. Or trying to go in with escrima to switch into staff and bait parry/use stand 1 into ground pound to maintain frame advantage and keep Joker grounded. Almost every NW player plays different, so it depends on the player.

IMO, escrima is the best stance vs Joker, you really don't want to give up mobility vs him, especially when his parry is good vs staff too.

 

[GuamoKun]

Sajam I kinda hate to ask and keep bringing this up but why do YOU see HG as a 4-6?

Since I'm like your little lap dog maybe hearing your reasoning will change my mind?

 

[Sajam]

IMO, escrima is the best stance vs Joker, you really don't want to give up mobility vs him, especially when his parry is good vs staff too.

The thing about parrys is that I don't usually consider them that big of a threat against staff since if he guesses it, he's getting about 40% meterless. His neutral jump in staff is so good for blowing up parry.

 

[Sajam]

Sajam I kinda hate to ask and keep bringing this up but why do YOU see HG as a 4-6?

Since I'm like your little lap dog maybe hearing your reasoning will change my mind?

Well, you basically have to respect her options when she's in the sky, but you can use ground spark cancels to fake her out and get under her. If you alter the way you move around enough it gets harder for her to deal with it, but her air control is incredibly frustrating for sure.

I think the biggest issue with HG isn't the MU, it's how easy it is for her to just blow you up with like 3 mb mace charges if you get impatient. Plus Guamo, we both know you just pick Zatanna against HG and teleport away and chuck rings all game.

You dirty man.

 

[Qwark28]

The thing about parrys is that I don't usually consider them that big of a threat against staff since if he guesses it, he's getting about 40% meterless. His neutral jump in staff is so good for blowing up parry.

parry is not something you just throw out, i throw it out when im 100% sure d1 is coming, its something to use once or twice a game. it should be there as a potential option

 

[Sajam]

parry is not something you just throw out, i throw it out when im 100% sure d1 is coming, its something to use once or twice a game. it should be there as a potential option

Yeah, but any time you do parry it's a bigger risk then a reward.

Plus, NW doesn't give much up for a well spaced neutral jump in staff. He is still in range for at least stand 1 no matter what.

 

[GuamoKun]

Well, you basically have to respect her options when she's in the sky, but you can use ground spark cancels to fake her out and get under her. If you alter the way you move around enough it gets harder for her to deal with it, but her air control is incredibly frustrating for sure.

I think the biggest issue with HG isn't the MU, it's how easy it is for her to just blow you up with like 3 mb mace charges if you get impatient. Plus Guamo, we both know you just pick Zatanna against HG and teleport away and chuck rings all game.

You dirty man.

I haven't even played a Hawkgirl since Zatanna was released.

Also, I sometimes pick NW in that MU because I'm a masochist....but isn't it possible for HG to play ultra ultra ultraconservative and lame, and literally hit me ONCE and then like fly away the whole time? Like Sub-Zero vs Cage in MK9?

 

[Sajam]

I haven't even played a Hawkgirl since Zatanna was released.

Also, I sometimes pick NW in that MU because I'm a masochist....but isn't it possible for HG to play ultra ultra ultraconservative and lame, and literally hit me ONCE and then like fly away the whole time? Like Sub-Zero vs Cage in MK9?

I mean, theoretically you can get lamed out by any character if they touch you once and duck and weave well enough.

She can't stay away from him forever, but her normals, especially her d1, give him lots of problems if he isn't the one initiating the pressure.

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah, but any time you do parry it's a bigger risk then a reward.

Plus, NW doesn't give much up for a well spaced neutral jump in staff. He is still in range for at least stand 1 no matter what.

it only matters that the option is there, i have one extra option you need worry about and i could simply not use it. if we go with risk/reward then i could read the jump and 2/d2 it for a combo into a setup.

its just one extra option that 90% of the other cast does not have.

 

[GuamoKun]

I mean, theoretically you can get lamed out by any character if they touch you once and duck and weave well enough.

She can't stay away from him forever, but her normals, especially her d1, give him lots of problems if he isn't the one initiating the pressure.

I really want to test out some theories wif you. ;_; bby gurl why haven't we played more often.

I guess I'll try to approach HG differently.

 

[Sajam]

it only matters that the option is there, i have one extra option you need worry about and i could simply not use it. if we go with risk/reward then i could read the jump and 2/d2 it for a combo into a setup.

its just one extra option that 90% of the other cast does not have.

A psychic d2 could definitely be a thing, but just having a parry should never be enough to scare NW players away from staff pressure.

We could theory fight the MU all day, but I think be can both agree they both have good options and setups that the other character has to deal with. It could be worse, we could be fighting Superman/BA/Aquaman instead of a NW/Joker.

 

[Sajam]

I really want to test out some theories wif you. ;_; bby gurl why haven't we played more often.

I guess I'll try to approach HG differently.

Don't approach HG differently.

Pick Zatanna and throw hella rings. Trust me, it's better for your soul. We need to spend more time playing/hanging out Guamo

 

[Qwark28]

A psychic d2 could definitely be a thing, but just having a parry should never be enough to scare NW players away from staff pressure.

We could theory fight the MU all day, but I think be can both agree they both have good options and setups that the other character has to deal with. It could be worse, we could be fighting Superman/BA/Aquaman instead of a NW/Joker.

Agreed, its exactly why I have it as even.

We could try to re-connect or I can play a couple of nightwings and record with my cell, post, have the NW player say what he'd do different offline and maybe figure it out.

 

[GuamoKun]

Don't approach HG differently.

Pick Zatanna and throw hella rings. Trust me, it's better for your soul. We need to spend more time playing/hanging out Guamo

b-b-b-but HOW DO WE SAY NO TO THIS

Zatanna is good. Nothing like teleporting away from Bane charge, DD supernova/shoulder dash, Superman lasers, HG macecharge, Bladam lighting and divekick, Lex Traps and Charge....

I'm kidnapping you so we can play with Dick all day errday unless I'm at school or work

 

[AssassiN]

I agree with these MU numbers, just curious why Raven is 4-6 because I have never played a good Raven.

 

[TakeAChance]

I think Zod is at least a 4-6.

3-7 when his trait is out.

NW beats Joker 6-4.

When you can actually move against the character he outranges him, out pokes him, outzones him, and gives no fucks about that parry.

Joker does great damage, that is true, but in an offline setting you will lose most of your health trying to get it going. I never feel threatned against a joker. The only time I do is when I cannot move or block on reaction. His crossups are good but his options off of blocked crossups are very predictable and scoutable.

 

[Sajam]

I will say that I think Zod could be 4-6, but I have yet to play Pig's Zod.

The last time Chef and I played Zod/NW it didn't feel bad for NW, but I'll hold off judgement until him and I play.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I'm curious to see why you have batgirl as an even match up. I personally find it to be one of her worst.

She basically has no options against staff. She can't jump in (normally, the threat of teleport against anti-airs allows for some jump ins, but jump back 2 can't be tele punished and leads to full combo), she doesn't out range NW, she doesn't out zone him, up close she has nothing she can really do since her fastest normal is a 7 frame high, her b1 footsie tool gets screwed by jump back 2, and d1 really stuffs her up. That ground pound is also really ugh to deal with. I've learnt to block the mid low hit and counterpoke with d1 special, but full screen it really fucks her up. Before we could duck the last hit off MB staff spin but now we can't.

If you play super turtle in staff stance there is very little batgirl can do in this MU. Sure, in escrima she has the advantage, but there's no reason to switch to escrima outside of clash or a throw. (But then just stance cancel groundpound and we're back to normal)

Maybe I'm just playing the MU wrong, but I can't name this as even. It's nowhere near AM bad, but it's not even either.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I will say that I think Zod could be 4-6, but I have yet to play Pig's Zod.

The last time Chef and I played Zod/NW it didn't feel bad for NW, but I'll hold off judgement until him and I play.

I feel like Escrima spark changes the whole game for Zod. However, a well spaced Air Fireball MB means he can get his trait out whenever. That said, I feel like sitting full screen doing escrima spark while his trait recharges just doesn't make too much sense. I always seemed like the more times Zod can get trait out per match, the less likely Nightwing is to win.

I hope you take some stream equipment to NEC. I want to watch all these matches.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I feel like Escrima spark changes the whole game for Zod. However, a well spaced Air Fireball MB means he can get his trait out whenever. That said, I feel like sitting full screen doing escrima spark while his trait recharges just doesn't make too much sense. I always seemed like the more times Zod can get trait out per match, the less likely Nightwing is to win.

I hope you take some stream equipment to NEC. I want to watch all these matches.

try trading ground pound or something with zod's mb air zod ball. the non straight hits only do like 3% or something and if you trade he also gets less advantage over you to use his trait

 

[Qwark28]

I think Zod is at least a 4-6.

3-7 when his trait is out.

NW beats Joker 6-4.

When you can actually move against the character he outranges him, out pokes him, outzones him, and gives no fucks about that parry.

Joker does great damage, that is true, but in an offline setting you will lose most of your health trying to get it going. I never feel threatned against a joker. The only time I do is when I cannot move or block on reaction. His crossups are good but his options off of blocked crossups are very predictable and scoutable.

None of NWs moves outrange a J3 except 2-3 in staff stance.

NWs zoning is easy to avoid in escrima and in staff stance he no longer outzones Joker

Options off of blocked crossups are plenty.

Lag affects both parties, there are tons of setups and combos I don't do because of online that make MB flipkick look like the poor man's Joker J2.

 

[TakeAChance]

None of NWs moves outrange a J3 except 2-3 in staff stance.

NWs zoning is easy to avoid in escrima and in staff stance he no longer outzones Joker

Options off of blocked crossups are plenty.

Lag affects both parties, there are tons of setups and combos I don't do because of online that make MB flipkick look like the poor man's Joker J2.

Nightwings Staff D2 puts the absolute shits to his J3 from anywhere but crossup distance.

Lag does does not effect both parties when one characters core strength is jumping

 

[Qwark28]

Nightwings Staff D2 puts the absolute shits to his J3 from anywhere but crossup distance.

Lag does does not effect both parties when one characters core strength is jumping

Dude, even aquaman and wonderwoman have a tough time anti airing a proper J3, nightwing can only D2 deep jumps which J3 does not do unless you're far away.

When the same character's strength is setups that rely on specific sweep/B3/combo heights, it does

 

[Qwark28]

Some characters have to deal with Joker's jumping, nightwing is one of them.

 

[Gilbagz]

Qwark can joker really outzone in staff?
Cuz when nw ground pounds he goes under gunshot
I find it much harder to get it on a staff nightwing compared to an escrima nightwing.
After a mb ground pound you just have to respect the next ground pound which opens up his zoning game
You can somewhat confirm the mb and go from there but regardless you're forced to go in on a staff nightwing which is horrible
He can jump back 2 out j3 attempts and if we read this all we get is a gunshot
In the corner things are a bit better thpugh