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Match-up Discussion Lex Luthor Matchup Discussion (Version 1.06)

Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
So I've found Lex can actually trade evenly with Raven at most distances. Unless of course I'm not able to properly emulate how fast a Raven player can actually throw out projectiles, but I took alot of care in making sure this actually would represent a real situation.

Her soul crush is punishable by Corps Charge UNLESS you block it from 100% maximum distance. For the other 99% of that distance, it is punishable.

At full screen, she only has that high hitting projectile. You can duck under it, and do lance blast immediately after, which leads to this scenario:

If Lex ducks under a projectile, he can get out a lance blast. He will automatically get hit by the next projectile immediately after. However, she cannot follow up that second projectile with a third. Lance blast is much slower, so it only gets to her by the time she would be throwing out the third projectile. If she attempts to throw out a third projectile, the Lance blast will hit her out of the startup. This gives Lex a free probe, or shields. If she doesn't throw out a third projectile, and blocks the lance blast instead, Lex STILL gets a free probe or shields.

It's complicated, but here's the timeline:

1) Raven throws out a projectile at full screen
(these next two things occur at the same time)
2) Lex ducks under the projectile and does a lance blast
2) Raven throws another projectile
3)Raven's projectile hits Lex and does 8 % damage
4) Lex's Lance blast reaches Raven. If she tries throwing out another projectile, it is stuffed on startup, and Lex gets a free probe or shields. If she blocks, Lex still can get out free shields or a probe. (Lance blast is around -12 at point-blank range, but at full-screen it is +infinity due to Lex recovering while it travels)

So in that scenario, Lex takes 8 percent damage from a Raven projectile. For Raven, she will take 1.88% chip from the lance blast, and Lex gets a free probe or shields. The probe is ideal, because she'll then have to dodge orbital strikes.
 
bananasheriff

bananasheriff

Noob
Thead said:
You can jump over the Bolas. If you're full screen, as soon as you hear that distinctive blip of Bola startup, you can wait for her to release and easily jump. Bolas have a lot of recovery on whiff, and a pretty long startup. Mid screen jump into Corp Charge punishes whiffed Bola, and can even stuff the startup of Bola if they leave it too long (deceptively long startup, the Bola can still be stuffed as its leaving Batgirls hand).

The trouble I had was vs Batgirls Cartwheel multi hitting wakeup, with Trait I could sometimes stuff it between the 1st and 2nd hits. Neutral jumping it I still seemed to get me. Is there a sure fire way to stop this wakeup other than standing back and letting it whiff?
Click to expand...

With any lvl trait you should always be able to full combo punish cartwheel between the cartwheel and low or cartwheel and overhead. With trait, d2 between the cartwheel and next hit works for both options. In addition, w/ trait 112 between cartwheel and overhead works for a full combo punish. I'm pretty sure 112 will whiff between the cartwheel into the low.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Thead said:
The trouble I had was vs Batgirls Cartwheel multi hitting wakeup, with Trait I could sometimes stuff it between the 1st and 2nd hits. Neutral jumping it I still seemed to get me. Is there a sure fire way to stop this wakeup other than standing back and letting it whiff?
Click to expand...
Not to be "typical Doombawkz" but a quick video...


Bane's b.1 beats out everything, basically what you should take from it is theres a gap inbetween the start-up and first hit where the invuln wears off. With the right timing work, you guys can probably do the same with your own b.2 or b.1 (the overhead swing seems to have similar frame properties as our b.1, being long active frames and a decent start-up). Not trying to bring Bane into it, but you were talking about the cartwheel so I mean theres at least potential to stop it.

Add in trait and you at least have a bit of leniency with your actions in case you mis-time it, but if you time it correctly you can keep your armor and get a full combo out of it as well. I'll go ahead and make a Lex video showing the timings if I can manage.
 
LaR

LaR

Apprentice
Doombawkz said:
Not to be "typical Doombawkz" but a quick video...


Bane's b.1 beats out everything, basically what you should take from it is theres a gap inbetween the start-up and first hit where the invuln wears off. With the right timing work, you guys can probably do the same with your own b.2 or b.1 (the overhead swing seems to have similar frame properties as our b.1, being long active frames and a decent start-up). Not trying to bring Bane into it, but you were talking about the cartwheel so I mean theres at least potential to stop it.

Add in trait and you at least have a bit of leniency with your actions in case you mis-time it, but if you time it correctly you can keep your armor and get a full combo out of it as well. I'll go ahead and make a Lex video showing the timings if I can manage.
Click to expand...
that wont work against a human because of the big wake up window
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
LaR said:
that wont work against a human because of the big wake up window
Click to expand...
It does for Bane because the move recovers in itself, he is safe if they delay it beyond his hitbox duration.

For Lex, I've found something that might be useful as well. Depends if you find lance blast an attractive option or not.

Or medium mine. Which, by the by, works as a nifty little trap for anyone who wants to wake-up and avoid it.
 
Spacepopsicle

Spacepopsicle

Cool Beans
I dont have Batgirl so I can't test, although yes the WU is a pain, I always get in her grill and try to bait it, I'll almost never try to start something while shes down

Side note I'm getting mad at the horrible info the move list has on frames for Lex, his lance blast claims to be +15 hit adv. after testing on Flash it seems to be more like +1
also his J2 claims to be +31 on block, after very little testing this was also a lie (+15?)
good news J3 says to be -4 on block, actually +1 or +2!
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Hit advantage and block advantage of lance blast vary widely based on distance.

It is unsafe on block at point blank range. Safe around corp charge distance, and at high advantage far away...

For the same reason, Batgirls bolas have only decent- but still insanely good- advantage up close, and omgwtf-advantageinfinity at fullscreen.
 
KingBlackToof

KingBlackToof

Noob
I played against a player who used Aquaman / Superman.
Aquaman was a interest fight I enjoyed, I lose the last 2 matches because he started to use his Trait on reaction to any MB.Gravity Pull which just screws me over and I didn't get a chance to adapt before he moved onto Superman.

Would someone watch this video and give me advice vs. Supermans Zoning?
Deathstroke and Cyborg give me similar issues.

(Superman fights start at about halfway.)
 
ShadowBeatz

ShadowBeatz

Dropper of Bass and Bombs
KingBlackToof said:
Would someone watch this video and give me advice vs. Supermans Zoning?
Click to expand...

Definitely one of Lex's worst match-ups. I actually think that up-close, Lex can handle Superdouche, so try to stay in on him as much as possible. When you get a knockdown, put up a probe (or trait dash if his trait is on cooldown. I usually choose to dash forward), and you can start to train him to do what you want. If he wakes up, block and the probe will either punish OR help you punish. If he blocks, get that f2/b13 50/50 going.

But yeah, that's A LOT easier said than done, and his projectile game sucks to get around. Stay crouching to go under Heat Zap, and when he does the ground laser, stand block (it doesn't hit low). Trading a laser for a MB Probe isn't a bad idea either, because then you can start trying to get Orbital Strikes going (the non-MB version is very useful I find, because when Superman jumps straight up to air laser, it'll knock him straight down and you can get another probe). If you're feeling ballsy, you can also try getting knocked down and then using wake-up Corps Charge's invulnerability frames to go through a laser and close some distance (but that's just some of my swagger that probably doesn't fly as "good strategy" :D).

But yeah, basically the key is don't let him breathe. Luckily, SM's wake-ups are kinda "meh," so just keep the pressure going.

*Sent by someone who likes to think he knows a little bit about Lex, but acknowledges that, upon further review, he probably doesn't know jack and you should take these words with a grain of salt (and if you played Lex vs. Superman, I KNOW you have some to spare) ;)
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
it depends on when you hit j3. the later you delay the j3 (idk if it depends on distance) the safer it is.
 
T4T|Nevan

T4T|Nevan

"Burn baby! Burn!"
How does Lex fare against Green Arrow?

I'm going to test a couple of things, but wanted to get the general feel of the matchup. The reason being that most prolly I'll fight against one in an up comming tournament.
 
T4T|Nevan

T4T|Nevan

"Burn baby! Burn!"
*soz but the "edit" doesn't seem to be working*

I've been testing some setups vs Green Arrow and got some results.

While testing I used 112 xx MB GP b3 j2 b2 xx close mine - while traited or not:

- Stinger ~ pushblock ~ mine hits(the intention is to put them on the mine):
. If you're traited pushblocking isn't needed, but if not it will get them on the mine;
. If traited any started can punish Stinger - b13/112/f2/b3;
. Don't delay j2 that much here, because if j2 hits late Stinger will nullify the mine, but if even he pass through the mine, you can punish it on block.

- Hurricane Bow - most likely they won't wakeup with this, but they might do it while thinking the multiple hits will eat Lex trait:
. If you use close mine waking up with Hurricane Bow is caught right away;
. With the threat of a mine or not, a well timmed 112 stuff Hurricane Bow.

Regarding that blockstring - b1 xx probe 2 xx trait 21 xx mine:

- b1 xx probe
. Stinger punished Lex while getting the probe out and GA was able to block the probe hit;
. Savage Shot is the same as above;
. Hurricane Bow is the same as the other, however GA gets hit by probe.

- b1 xx trait(no dash cancel)
. Stinger gets punished - 112/f2;
. Savage Shot gets away and don't even a CC can punish it;
. Hurricane Bow punishes Lex.

I'll be testing more stuff vs GA.

If you have anything to say 'bout this, gogo!
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
I'm really emo about the sinestro matchup. I think it might be 2-8 even though I hate saying that. If lex can't get started right away and push it to the corner he is so fundamentally fucked and you might as well not even play. It feels like a kenshi situation from mk9 where lex can definitely beat most sinestros and feel like a 4-6 mu, but when you play someone like cowboy who really understands how to use that character to shut him down it becomes absolutely terrible. Like, I know right now if I had to play someone like cowboy in tournament I would lose and it's not even worth the time. But if I'm just an idiot let me know too.
 
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