Match-up Discussion Nightwing Match-Up Discussion (1.06 and on)

[14K]

What I can tell so far is that when Lobo has his trait loaded, you should stop using Wing Dings or any projectile for that matter or you'll eat it.
It has so much range and it shoots you right out of the air.

from the couple matchs i had the new improved range is still not full screen cause it whiffed on me full range but i really need to make sure on this... tho i still think going face to face on him is very bad idea... full screen you can somewhat lock him down with sparks and groundpounds for frame traps his shot gun is fast but still not fast enouth it seems , so just time your projectiles correctly and he will feel forced to get in, thats when wingdings come into play... its really not a good idea to be in lobos face now... i took 50 near 60% combos just cause i was trying to open him up and got hit by a stray atack...

EDIT: just tested it lobos nuked shots are not full screen, tho be carefull the 2nd shot goes further than the 1 one so the first one might whiffe but the second will still hit

 

[Noobtastic]

I don't really have any match experience against Raven or Harley and I don't know the MU very well.

Any Tips?

 

[14K]

ok guys so managed to get some more games in with a lobo player, very nice one in fact... i would urge you guys to go check out the new "tech" or mixup they came up with just to be familier with it cause it can be quite a hand full if you dunno what is going on... its a pretty nice reset situation and very ambiguous that leads up to more than 70% to 1 full bar.. but to the point shall we.

after taking a better look at this matchup and with a few hours of game with it its not as bad as i tought... yeah lobo can hit pretty hard but outside your tipical chain mixups he doesnt have a ol lot to fight NW with.

Points i took from the fight: his Shotgun Blasts be them charged or not are not full screen so Sparks and Gpounds work perfecly to keep him at bay

2. he has a pretty fast forward dash, but his jumps are not that great against NW and he can eazly get a round of wingdings in before lobo gets even close

3. if your zooning is on point you should always prevent the shotgun blasts from even coming out, other than that lobo should have a pretty hard time getting near you if you know what your doing...

4. if shots are infact loaded avoid CQC but if you do find yourself near him and not a lot of options to run away you still have a lot of options on both staff and escrima... staff can more easly deal with him up close than escrima simply by its range but keep in mind Lobos chains still outrange NW staff so yeahhh just something to look out for...

5. all in all the best option is zooning since lobo will have a pretty hard time doing anything... he will struggle to get in and he wont be able to out zone you even with shotgun blasts, CQC is tricky for NW cause he cant keep it with Lobos dmg all that well... since if you hit him u get tops 52% in the corner thats best case scenario but if he hits you, he will land atleast 50% in any part of the screen.. if he really wants to hurt you he will get around 60% at a cost of a few resources...

Sajam was right this is probably still not in lobos favor but i can see it being a solid 5-5 now considering that both characters now have low and high points on the match NW being how well he can zone Lobo and Lobo can pack a punch if he even touches you...

 

[Chongo]

I don't really have any match experience against Raven or Harley and I don't know the MU very well.

Any Tips?

Block low against Raven when you're up close, she doesn't have any overhead starters besides f3, which you can react to.

If she throws a shadow raven, regardless of whether it hits or not, do not dash. She gets a free soul crush check. After you block a soul crush its safe to dash in.

In trait, her pillars are neutral and her full screen grab is -6. You have options in both stances. In escrima regular dashes will do, in staff flying grayson instead. Her pillars don't track, so the mindgame is after you block a full screen grab, will she go for a pillar or another grab? You can dash in escrima if she goes for back to back grabs. If she pillars, it depends on what pillar she decided to do. If she read the dash and did mid pillar, she'll punish you, but if she thought you were gonna stand still and did far pillar, you'll be safe.

I do no recommend just waiting trait out, she'll gain back a lot of meter and do a lot of chip, and it recovers very fast. Only time I would do it is if I had a huge life lead and time was almost out.


Harley I really can't comment on, but you always will want to block her cartwheel standing. It's -7 if you block it standing, -6 if you crouch it. It's really ghetto.

Blind_Man is probably the Raven of USA and knows the NW mu very well, I'm sure he wouldn't mind playing a few sets + trying to help.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

I don't really have any match experience against Raven or Harley and I don't know the MU very well.

Any Tips?

If you're on psn add chemical_venom. We'll play.

 

[Noobtastic]

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Noobtastic]

If you're on psn add chemical_venom. We'll play.

I'll add you.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Now that it's been a week since the patch dropped, would be curious to hear what matchups people think have changed (materially). Thoughts?

 

[Dasblackman]

Wonder Woman is a matchup we need to pay more attention to, character has been slept on and in the right hands she can shut us down

 

[Sajam]

Wonder Woman is a matchup we need to pay more attention to, character has been slept on and in the right hands she can shut us down

I've played against a lot of WoWo. She is strong, but NW doesn't fair badly in the matchup once you understand WoWo and her frame trap game.

I'm going to avoid doing a huge write up because it's early in the morning, but the long and the short of it for me is this: when she's in whip you should be in staff, when she's in shield you should be in escrima. Don't disrespect her b1 or 33 frame traps, and make good use of j2/FG to snipe her if she tries to go airbourne. NW can play footsies well with her on the ground. Also, don't let her wakeup for free. If she can spin for free, then you are going to have a hard time.

 

[gpmoney]

hows the nightwing Harley match up? I found myself struggling because I have no Harley experience. her reset game is amazing

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Any tips for the Cyborg matchup? I have the worst time closing the gap and get zoned out really hard. I assume I should be in escrima stance most the time (except when I have Cyborg cornered)...

 

[Dasblackman]

hows the nightwing Harley match up? I found myself struggling because I have no Harley experience. her reset game is amazing

Block low, react to overheads.
She has one overhead starter, but it's easy to tell when she's going to do it.
Also, don't let her dash cancel into tantrum, the range on it is huge.
Just pressure her and watch out for tantrum wakeups

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Any advice on cyborg?

 

[GuamoKun]

Any advice on cyborg?

Cyborg's game really relies on you trying to be patient around his zoning. Assuming that the opponent can iaNB correctly, this will be a hard MU. However upclose cyborg has few reliable options outside of d1 into grappling hook or his uppercut move. Cyborg player like to use his b3 because of its range but its slow. Like most zoning matchups, its all about getting in, staying in, and staying in some more.

Howver, unlike other zoners, Cyborgs game is essentially about his iaNB and his Target Acquired move thingy is easy to react to and dash in or if you are gdlk at reacting use Flying Grayson if you have the time. This is different compared to Sinestro who has the fear of his meteors to stop you from jumping or Raven who has Soul Crush to discourage dashing. You will get in eventually but you have to watch out for the grappling hook since it is armored and sometimes works as a good escape tool but most Cyborgs will rely on d1 into uppercut since Cyborg has like no combos.


I'm probably wrong but this is how I see the MU. I did fight @Krayzie's Cyborg offline and he has the iaNB down perfectly but doesn't main him so he might have not done the optimal setups and bnbs.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Anyone feels NW wins pretty easily in the Bane MU? i suck at explaining why i think NW wins, but i feel its in NWs favor a lil.

 

[GuamoKun]

Anyone feels NW wins pretty easily in the Bane MU? i suck at explaining why i think NW wins, but i feel its in NWs favor a lil.

I don't have MUCH MU knowledge but this is what I can kinda make out of it.

Staff spin beats armor on stuff
Stand 1 can check Bane after a blocked charge...
Ground Blast can check him really well on knockdown...and wakeup charge is slow so it can be reacted to and blocked even after a ground spark to check him, but depends on the distance most of the time.
Escrima mobility is kinda good against Bane and you can kinda zone him but Venom is always so annoying so you have to watch out for charge and how it ignores projectile.
Venom cooldown is easy to capitalize with NW in both stances me thinks. You can be aggressive with zoning in both stances since Bane's mobility becomes TURRIBLE and has no projectile invincibility and the increased damage on chip and on hit helps NW.
However one of the best things that helps in this MU is that NW's escrima normals help because Bane is so slow and cant really escape from pressure outside of armoring things with venom but NW can kinda avoid Bane once that happens.
But NW can then pressure the isht out of Bane because NW's normals will actually hit like d12 and b112 and his crossup flipkick stuff because Bane is so big and slow. These are the talking points I can come up with.

Tagging some Bane players.
Maxintensity25
RYX....I should tag Doombawks but he will find out about this eventually :tonyt

 

[Doombawkz]

I don't have MUCH MU knowledge but this is what I can kinda make out of it.

Staff spin beats armor on stuff
Stand 1 can check Bane after a blocked charge...
Ground Blast can check him really well on knockdown...and wakeup charge is slow so it can be reacted to and blocked even after a ground spark to check him, but depends on the distance most of the time.
Escrima mobility is kinda good against Bane and you can kinda zone him but Venom is always so annoying so you have to watch out for charge and how it ignores projectile.
Venom cooldown is easy to capitalize with NW in both stances me thinks. You can be aggressive with zoning in both stances since Bane's mobility becomes TURRIBLE and has no projectile invincibility and the increased damage on chip and on hit helps NW.
However one of the best things that helps in this MU is that NW's escrima normals help because Bane is so slow and cant really escape from pressure outside of armoring things with venom but NW can kinda avoid Bane once that happens.
But NW can then pressure the isht out of Bane because NW's normals will actually hit like d12 and b112 and his crossup flipkick stuff because Bane is so big and slow. These are the talking points I can come up with.

Tagging some Bane players.
Maxintensity25
RYX....I should tag Doombawks but he will find out about this eventually :tonyt

I found it first... You think you can talk bane without me?
Lets see...
Yes if its not baited by a backdash. Which it probably will be.
Check us how? In the kind of way you're getting body pressed from, or the whole double punch kind.
We usually won't wake-up charge against NW because of wing dings.
Escrima mobility? Its not good enough, we can still check your backdash with d.2 for free.
4 seconds on venom cooldown is all we really have in this MU since projectile immunity isn't a part. You can't open us up in 4 seconds and do the damage you need to.
We can escape from pressure fine, we outreach you by a mile and our backdash is the best in the game.


You want to know why its 6-4 NW's favour? Wing Dings. Literally just that, and that's all. We don't care about anything else, we just eat through your normal attacks and abuse your mobility.

If you use wing dings avidly?
Its an easy match as long as the Bane doesn't wise up.

If you don't, or the Bane learns to properly punish it?

You don't have the batman's mobility, so to us, everything that's not a wing ding is nothing.

 

[GuamoKun]

I found it first... You think you can talk bane without me?

Do you even into reading comprehension

RYX....I should tag Doombawks but he will find out about this eventually :tonyt

 

[Sajam]

I found it first... You think you can talk bane without me?

Have you ever played this game?

An honest question.

 

[RYX]

I don't have MUCH MU knowledge but this is what I can kinda make out of it.

Staff spin beats armor on stuff
Stand 1 can check Bane after a blocked charge...
Ground Blast can check him really well on knockdown...and wakeup charge is slow so it can be reacted to and blocked even after a ground spark to check him, but depends on the distance most of the time.
Escrima mobility is kinda good against Bane and you can kinda zone him but Venom is always so annoying so you have to watch out for charge and how it ignores projectile.
Venom cooldown is easy to capitalize with NW in both stances me thinks. You can be aggressive with zoning in both stances since Bane's mobility becomes TURRIBLE and has no projectile invincibility and the increased damage on chip and on hit helps NW.
However one of the best things that helps in this MU is that NW's escrima normals help because Bane is so slow and cant really escape from pressure outside of armoring things with venom but NW can kinda avoid Bane once that happens.
But NW can then pressure the isht out of Bane because NW's normals will actually hit like d12 and b112 and his crossup flipkick stuff because Bane is so big and slow. These are the talking points I can come up with.

Tagging some Bane players.
Maxintensity25
RYX....I should tag Doombawks but he will find out about this eventually :tonyt

Staff is a lot better in the MU. If you get knocked down in Escrima you're done lol

NW has to be a super aggro zoner IMO, unless he wants to chip the living shit out of Bane with MB spins I guess.

 

[GuamoKun]

Doombawkz

silly kid trying to cover your tracks with stealth edits.

Flying Grayson or ground spark or even forward jump 1 beats backdash after the charge.

WE can check you on knockdown because NW does have knockdowns that make Bane fly across the screen which doesn't help AT ALL in most MUs but helps in this one because Bane has limited advancing specials on wakeup that can't be "safe" or advantage without the proper resources.

 

[Doombawkz]

Do you even into reading comprehension

Oh yes, I know what you said. "Eventually" has an implication that I wouldn't find it immediately. Which I did.

Have you ever played this game?

An honest question.

Of course not, I just come on the forums and post more tech than anyone on a game I don't own.
Or, a better question, why do you ask? "Honest" doesn't seem to be the right fit. "Stupid", perhaps, or "spite-ridden", but "honest"?
I'd hope not.

Now then are we going to talk MU, or are you guys going to keep assuming rushdown Nightwing is a viable option? I'm more than happy to let sleeping dicks lie.

 

[GuamoKun]

Oh yes, I know what you said. "Eventually" has an implication that I wouldn't find it immediately. Which I did.



Of course not, I just come on the forums and post more tech than anyone on a game I don't own.
Or, a better question, why do you ask? "Honest" doesn't seem to be the right fit. "Stupid", perhaps, or "spite-ridden", but "honest"?
I'd hope not.

Now then are we going to talk MU, or are you guys going to keep assuming rushdown Nightwing is a viable option? I'm more than happy to let sleeping dicks lie.

dammit Doombawkz its Dicks not dicks

Rushdown NW is only viable outside of Venom. Bane is just too slow to reliably and safetly avoid NW's frame traps without meter and he can really wreck Nightwing on the juice.

HOWEVER, what I focus is that Venom will run out eventually, and when that happens its kinda easy to reverse the situation.

 

[Sajam]

Of course not, I just come on the forums and post more tech than anyone on a game I don't own.
Or, a better question, why do you ask? "Honest" doesn't seem to be the right fit. "Stupid", perhaps, or "spite-ridden", but "honest"?
I'd hope not.

Now then are we going to talk MU, or are you guys going to keep assuming rushdown Nightwing is a viable option? I'm more than happy to let sleeping dicks lie.

It's a legitimate question friend, no need to be so defensive.

Most professional theory fighters tend to have never thrown the game in their disk drive.