Match-up Discussion Shazams true Match up Chart.

[Doombawkz]

ya that's fine.. I am not looking for consistently, just once is enough. I want to see how the timing is. thx

You don't mind if I do an easier-to-time set-up, do you? It works with the f.223 as well, its just easier to capture with less takes.

 

[killa_solid]

You don't mind if I do an easier-to-time set-up, do you? It works with the f.223 as well, its just easier to capture with less takes.

if it works, it works. dmg before it doesnt really matter

 

[Doombawkz]

I can't seem to replicate the bigger damage one, but this should give a gist of it. This is them punishing non-rolled wake-ups. I'm working on the rolled ones which are even harder, I keep trading but not beating so I gotta keep working on it lol

I think in the second video I keep getting standing 3, but I mean it works xD

Uploading another video in a sec.

Style points. Enjoy. Going off of a raw AT. Got one more coming showing the other 2.

There you go. And as Chef said, this isn't new. Just gotta look into it. I'll probably post a video showing Shazam blowing out BA's wake-ups next.

 

[juicepouch]

Shazam?
b.23 is harder to time, but it does the same thing and punishes super for a near full combo.
Can't block because command grab. Can't jump or backdash either because the game forces you to stay there and put yourself back to neutral.

But ya know...
6-4 Zod minimum, right?

Can I just say that the way you uncover stuff makes me want to go into the lab and uncover more stuff? That shit is tight, yo!

 

[GAMETIME]

Alot of his previous thought Negatives are actually 5-5, LBSH who really put that much time into Shazam?
Not alot of people because he wasn't easy.

I have

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

FYI the Zod thing is definitely not new or character specific. Zod Charge and Palm aren't true wakeups, any meaty in the game will beat them, we've known that for a while.

There are a lot of wakeups in the game that aren't true wakeups, Aquaman for instance I think has no true wakeups, same with Green Lantern.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

And by true wakeups I mean wakeups that are fully invincible until the first damaging active frame, so you can't stuff them normally.

 

[Doombawkz]

FYI the Zod thing is definitely not new or character specific. Zod Charge and Palm aren't true wakeups, any meaty in the game will beat them, we've known that for a while.

There are a lot of wakeups in the game that aren't true wakeups, Aquaman for instance I think has no true wakeups, same with Green Lantern.

I'm aware, Bane 113ing Aqua on wake-up is one of our oldest things because it existed pre-patch 1.
Still, always nice to have it on film.

Not everyone knew, and putting it out there gets people inspired to look for more.

Oh and b.23 blows up Lightning Cage on wake-up too, so theres that. Iirc that is a true wake-up.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

I'm aware, Bane 113ing Aqua on wake-up is one of our oldest things because it existed pre-patch 1.
Still, always nice to have it on film.

Not everyone knew, and putting it out there gets people inspired to look for more.

Oh and b.23 blows up Lightning Cage on wake-up too, so theres that. Iirc that is a true wake-up.

yeah I just wanted to explain to people that this isn't some magical Shazam ability to stuff wakeups

 

[killa_solid]

And by true wakeups I mean wakeups that are fully invincible until the first damaging active frame, so you can't stuff them normally.

Ya I have noticed that. Normals that hit twice fast are really good at stuffing these type of wakes ups too. Like Cw's 3 midscreen after a 122 knockdown and 1f2 after a 1f2 knockdown in the corner. Char like Aquaman cannot wake up against her. and since 33 and 1f2 are + on block it's almost like she gets a pseudo standing reset. it's pretty cool.

 

[Doombawkz]

yeah I just wanted to explain to people that this isn't some magical Shazam ability to stuff wakeups

Well he has something, I need to look into it more but blowing up cage and going clean over slide aren't too shabby all things considered.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Well he has something, I need to look into it more but blowing up cage and going clean over slide aren't too shabby all things considered.

Well with an unsafe move it isn't that great either =/

 

[Doombawkz]

Well with an unsafe move it isn't that great either =/

Blocking gets you command grabbed. Gotta make that guess.
Its sweet-spotted, so no jumps or backdashes will come. So they either block because they've been blown up for trying to wake-up and get snagged for 41% and a reset, or they try to wake-up and get a 37% punish into reset instead.

Its as true a 50/50 as they come, and theres options to make it even more deadly. Its all on if you can convince your opponent to respect you once. Just once, and you've got yourself a lifebar.

Heck, just off of the words you went to the option of simply blocking "the unsafe move" so what do you think your opponent will instinctually do when it comes to it?

Also remember that old f.22xx4 command grab thing I told you about back in the day? With the improved range, I've been snagging some of the faster backdashers clean out of their responses. Superman, BA included. I'm bad as shazam so my timing was a bit off, but ya know... I mean if I can do it, anyone with half an ounce of skill can.

 

[Uber]

1. B12 cannot be punished by anything besides superman's super, so you are incorrect there.

2. Aquaman can damage you from ranges you cannot damage him, and he out ranges you so you lose a lot of damage trying to get in from outside of sweep range.

3. FTD is safe from torpedo unless you are just outside sweep range or closer. From that range why would you torpedo when command throw is guaranteed? If you tried to punish a FTD with torpedo from outside the range I just mentioned, it is you who is getting punished.

You clearly haven't even spent time in practice mode in this MU as everything I just dispelled can be done via training mode vs a cpu dummy.

I've never found the aquaman matchup overwhelming either. All Aquaman really has going for him is his range on FTD. Everytime Shazam blocks FTD, he moves up half a screens distance.Aquamans trait is nearly useless in the matchup. AMs wakeups are all baited with a J2. Water shield is his best option, but he's still gonna eat 20-25 damage from a J2 string unless he MBs. JF trident is punished by HM. Trident rush is punished with HM. AMs ranged attacks can be whiff punished with HM and B2. I don't really see how AM has much advantage here, but I guess I haven't played anyone as good as you with AM. On paper, it seems even.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

 

[Shawi]

I love how pig magically disappeared after you put those videos up, loooool

 

[Doombawkz]

He'll be back. Probably saying something about how I'm a nobody and all his cool shazam friends knew about all the junk I posted and that it works off of most of his knockdowns and blah blah and then he'll give me a swirly to seal the deal or something.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Blocking gets you command grabbed. Gotta make that guess.
Its sweet-spotted, so no jumps or backdashes will come. So they either block because they've been blown up for trying to wake-up and get snagged for 41% and a reset, or they try to wake-up and get a 37% punish into reset instead.

Its as true a 50/50 as they come, and theres options to make it even more deadly. Its all on if you can convince your opponent to respect you once. Just once, and you've got yourself a lifebar.

Heck, just off of the words you went to the option of simply blocking "the unsafe move" so what do you think your opponent will instinctually do when it comes to it?

Also remember that old f.22xx4 command grab thing I told you about back in the day? With the improved range, I've been snagging some of the faster backdashers clean out of their responses. Superman, BA included. I'm bad as shazam so my timing was a bit off, but ya know... I mean if I can do it, anyone with half an ounce of skill can.

Well the thing is 90% of the time you would do a meaty b23 on wakeup, you could instead just wait and whiff punish whatever you would stuff.

 

[Uber]

Well the thing is 90% of the time you would do a meaty b23 on wakeup, you could instead just wait and whiff punish whatever you would stuff.

So true. Safer to hang back and block most of the time. Meaty B23 is only good against certain things, like Green Arrow Savage Blast.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

 

[Doombawkz]

Well the thing is 90% of the time you would do a meaty b23 on wakeup, you could instead just wait and whiff punish whatever you would stuff.

Why would I do it 90% of the time? I can also run up to you and do command grab, f.223, 22xxHM, Mb f.3... The opponent can't get out of that spot until you start so they have to make a 1/3 guess. Do a regular wake-up, do a MB rebuttal, or block. The only problem?

MB f.3 beats wake-up and MB rebuttal (because you can hold and dash cancel it)
b.23 will outspeed most MB b./f.3s, crush a lot of wake-ups, but loses to guarding.
Command grab will lose to a few of them, but if you have them respecting the fact that your first 2 cover those bases then you're set.

So what does the opponent do? Risk a wake-up when your main options beat them? Block knowing that they can only punish if you decide to do the b.23 option?

You have the 2/3 chance of winning out, and you cover all the options. As far as waiting, if you wait they have a chance to backdash. The point of this is it sinks into a sweet spot, a 5 frame gap on wake-up where if they don't input a wake-up option they are forced to reset into neutral, meaning they can't jump or backdash. I have a video of Bane doing it, and Shazam works off the same concept.
If the opponent tries to, they get opened up for free.

Its not an end-all, but its a hell of a start. And b.23, it crushes a lot more than just a few wake-ups. This thing I'm telling you alone would make the shazam/BA MU a 5-5, dead even.

 

[pogse]

off a D3 you can opt F22 on some of the cast and nullify stationary wakeup specials that doesn't have a hitbox earlier than 6 frames (more or less).

d3, F22 can work against:

• Aquaman
• Zod
• Superman (exclude scoop)
• Catwoman (exclude wakeup trait)
• Raven
• BA (exclude lightning charge)
• DD (exclude the move the goes over the lifebars)
• BG (cartwheel)
• MMH (teleports)
• GA (exclude BF3)

Wanted to make a guide with a vid but it's kinda troublesome recording with a camera.

 

[Doombawkz]

off a D3 you can opt F22 on some of the cast and nullify stationary wakeup specials that doesn't have a hitbox earlier than 6 frames (more or less).

d3, F22 can work against:

• Aquaman
• Zod
• Superman (except scoop)
• Catwoman
• Raven
• BA (exclude lightning charge)
• DD (exclude the move the goes over the lifebars)
• BG (cartwheel)
• MMH (teleports)
• GA (exclude BF3)

Wanted to make a guide with a vid but it's kinda troublesome recording with a camera.

I just tested some of them. You can do the same off of an AT ender, and on about the middle 1/3 of them you can also get it off of HM.

Also, b.23 seems to take Scorp tele out before he leaves the screen.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

off a D3 you can opt F22 on some of the cast and nullify stationary wakeup specials that doesn't have a hitbox earlier than 6 frames (more or less).

d3, F22 can work against:

• Aquaman
• Zod
• Superman (except scoop)
• Catwoman
• Raven
• BA (exclude lightning charge)
• DD (exclude the move the goes over the lifebars)
• BG (cartwheel)
• MMH (teleports)
• GA (exclude BF3)

Wanted to make a guide with a vid but it's kinda troublesome recording with a camera.

Does it stuff Catwoman wakeup Trait too?

I think that's actually her best wakeup.

 

[Doombawkz]

See? Slap some old tech out and people start swarming again.

My work here is done, I'll pop back in with more videos of vague relevance and questionable motive when people start to fade off again.
This character has so much potential it's a huge shame to let it go to waste. Makes me sad when Bane had it worse than anyone ever and we stuck with him, but Shazam is being left behind.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

There's no way that Shazam vs Hawkgirl is a 5-5, Hawkgirl has advantage.

 

[pogse]

Does it stuff Catwoman wakeup Trait too?

I think that's actually her best wakeup.

Nope, Let me put that in there.