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Strategy Objective discussion for 1.06 Raven and the metagame

Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Sami said:
Thought this was a Raven thread, not Deathstroke.

Quick opinion: bad MUs got worse (lol 2 hits of armour), bad stages got better. Shame they didn't fix the f22 bug (strange as they fixed quite a few bugs in this one) and make some of her normals more useful (looking at the patch notes it's not surprising, as it's mainly bug fixes and BIG changes).
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The armor doesn't make a difference vs cat woman & doomsday. They could have 10 hits and it wouldn't matter.
 
TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
Jackal904 said:
That's all I really wanted (or could think of) for her in this patch. Fix the f22 bug and make f2233 not so utterly garbage.
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f2233 isn't garbage.

TBH, I'm glad they didn't change anything directly, though it'll be interesting to see how these indirect changes affect her.
 
Jackal904

Jackal904

Mortal
TarkatanDentist said:
f2233 isn't garbage.

TBH, I'm glad they didn't change anything directly, though it'll be interesting to see how these indirect changes affect her.
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How is f2233 not garbage? It leaves you at a disadvantage on both block and hit, and it sucks as a mixup because you can react to the f22 part and block high.
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Blind_Man said:
Sinestros B12 is -5 and if he cancels into anything it's a full combo. It helps sinestro because at that distance he had no safe options without trait. I don't think it changes the mu THAT significantly. I still think its 5-5.
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My happy ass will be able to backdash any attempt at pressure :D.
 
cR WoundCowboy

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Blind_Man said:
And if I lift you're fucked or I fwd dash & throw or if I'm feeling stupid I can soul crush you. And you're -5 so are you sure you can back dash a d1?
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Yea, no D1 comes out faster than 6 frames. I can ALMOST do it off of B13 being blocked (which is -9). Also yea if I backdash every time then you can blow me up, but it also gives me more options. Mind games will develop. How fast is the lift?
 
TarkatanDentist

TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
Jackal904 said:
How is f2233 not garbage? It leaves you at a disadvantage on both block and hit, and it sucks as a mixup because you can react to the f22 part and block high.
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You know combos where you end with f22u1? Occasionally, try ending it with f2233 and set up some interesting mind-games and wake-ups.

f2233 is highly, highly, highly situational, but not outright useless like, say, f1 is.
 
Z

ZalliX

Noob
TarkatanDentist said:
You know combos where you end with f22u1? Occasionally, try ending it with f2233 and set up some interesting mind-games and wake-ups.

f2233 is highly, highly, highly situational, but not outright useless like, say, f1 is.
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F1 isn't useless its situational. It also has the 2nd fastest recovering move in ravens arsenal... F1 + Lift cuz they're trying to wiff punish?? GDLK
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
WoundCowboy said:
Yea, no D1 comes out faster than 6 frames. I can ALMOST do it off of B13 being blocked (which is -9). Also yea if I backdash every time then you can blow me up, but it also gives me more options. Mind games will develop. How fast is the lift?
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Lift is 16 frames but it'll catch you back dashing. And I agree mind games will be going around and it'll make that mu more fun.
F2233 and f1 are useless. You're Raven over lord has spoken.
 
S

Sami

Warrior
Regarding f1, you're forgetting that d3 is pretty much a universal safe counter to it (okay a few characters have crappy d3s). If you read the f1 then d3 will win (as f1 will wiff), and if they try to do f1 then lift (can't cancel f1 into lift if f1 wiffs, so you have to do the full recovery of f1 before lift) then I don't think there's a d3 in the game that won't come out and hit before lift becomes active. Please, just admit it's a terrible move that only terrible players (or those who don't know the MU) will fall for :)

As for f2233, it's stupidly easy to block (for somebody who mentioned trying to mix it up with f22u1, there is no mix-up here as when the opponent sees f2 they just standing block every follow up to that string) and leaves you at a huge disadvantage. If it does hit you are left and + frames, but you're also left at point blank range with your opponent having wake-up advantage.

The opponent should always be blocking low against Raven unless they see f3 coming (not exactly difficult) or a f2 combo string starting (they have plenty of time to stand up to block the overhead). Just because it punishes bad players who don't know the one time they need to stand block a Raven combo string doesn't make it a good move. If there was an actual mix-up off it then it might get some actual valid use. Personally I still say turn it into a standing reset for combo enders when knockdown/cross-up attempts are suicide (Lantern, Grundy, etc) but she doesn't want to put the opponent fullscreen. Would give her 3 useful combo enders:

b23 to put them fullscreen
f22u1 or f2~lift for well-spaced hard knockdown cross-up setups
f2233 for close standing reset (make it f223 and have the kick stand them without the secondary knockdown kick)



Slightly jealous of the Ares teleport buffs. Raven is currently limited to only having access to her teleport in Demon Stance and can't do funky funky tricks from it like Zatanna or Ares. Yes I know she can teleport in the air.
 
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