Why is Quan Chi considered low tier? He seems compleatly untouchable.

[Mr. Rager]

Quan Chi can be overwhelming at best in the right hands. But nothing too serious. I've played some sick Barakas too. Kinda isnt fair that kung laos destroy them. they need just alil bit more netherrealm studios, just alil more buffing and they will be seen everywhere.

 

[spongebob]

QUAN CHI IS DEFINITELY NOT LOW-TIER. HE IS VERY POWERFUL IN THIS GAME. IN THE CORRECT HANDS HE'S DEADLY; HE JUST REQUIRES A MORE DIFFICULT LEARNING PROCESS TO MASTER HIM.​

Fuckin hell stop posting like that and contributing nothing it's annoying.

ALSO YOUR POST HISTORY IS HILARIOUS.​

 

[Vilén]

I'm too lazy to read this thread and am mostly ignorant in the ways of playing Quan-Chi.

So someone here should explain to me like the ignorant, lazy man-child that I am, exactly what makes Quan-Chi... competitive, I guess? I can't figure it out, and that bothers me. Because I loooooooved this dude in MK4.

Here are the Quan-Chi pros I've found:
- Sick uppercut
- Sick sweep
- Mercilessly spamtastic fireball
- Trance rapes zoning for full combo
- Low hit box
- Can make him glow during fatality

Here are the Quan-Chi cons I've found:
- No damage without successful mixups outside of trance-trade
- You fail pretty hard if you can't react to his high/low game.
- You have to commit to the trance after , so if they do manage to block this easy-to-see-move, you get raped.
- Completely free on wake-up.
- Normals not called "uppercut" or "sweep" are ass.

I'm sure I have to be missing something here.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

I wouldn't say competitive.... But definitely a challenge. I think it's his constant ability to adapt to his mix up game. For example, Quan Chi does a jump in punch. You block it. You know he has three options. Let's say, you think it's going to be B+3, 1+2 (the low to medium). So you go to guard it, Quan then can dash forward as you telegraph your blocks. Once you raise up he moves in with the low. I'm sure you know where the rest would be going.

The point being is that his mixups can be deadly, because once he gets the hit, you're potentially locked in into a very long and brutal combo (save he has meter) that you have to spend a breaker on.

I'm also a big culprit of not using his enhanced trance. Ex Trance can be a game winner, especially if you're setting up for Quan's rune trap.

Under The Mayo made a really good write-up on MKU about Quan Chi avoiding breakers in this frame trap.
That's here: http://www.mortalkombatunited.com/showthread.php?8771-Avoiding-Breakers-with-Quan-Chi

With a combination of working in Ex Trance and the ability to avoid breakers into your gameplay, you'll be a mix up master.

Skull is pretty decent. It's a good way to get that meter built.

F+1, 2 can cover some distance and can be good for cross-up evasion, but it's not something to just toss out unless it's called for.

Committing to trance after U+3 is lame, agreed. Along with the fact you can't trance off of 2, 1, U+3.

He's not completely free on wake up, his uppercut can be pretty handy, but he's definitely on sale.

Quan Chi is lacking in some areas. Some areas that are very important to compete with the entire class. BUT Quan Chi is not someone to be brushed aside.

EDIT: B+3, 3 can be used as an anti-air and can be linked to trance.

 

[Vilén]

Hm. Interesting.

What would you give Quan-Chi to make him competitive? I have some ideas, but Quan-Chi is so on-the-fence I'm horrified to think of the implications of buffing his shit.

I wouldn't have a problem with being hit confirmable like his + is, though. I can say that much right now, just for how telegraphed the move is.

Where is his regular Rune right now? I heard some shit about NRS buffing it, but I'm effectively unaware. I think it should have big + frames on block, personally. But like I said, I'm not well versed in the concept of playing Quan-Chi, but I think being able to pressure with string~close rune x N a la Shang Tsung would be reasonable.

 

[Subby]

I always thought he had a great offense. His mixups are SO hard to defend against. All of his under and overheads look identical! Not to mention his overhead looks like a low.

 

[King]

I don't play quan that much and whilst he definately does have loads of glaring weakness he still has loads of strengths. Isn't he the only char in game with true 50/50's that lead into combo's?

Nope. Scorpion is also a true 50/50 character.

shouldn't he be mid tier at least?

Not really. Quan Chi has the worst wake up game and 2 useless special moves (Skeletal Boost/Ground Burst.)

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Number one on my list would be: A true wake-up attack.

One that doesn't get stuffed by everyone's low-pokes. Even if I have to spend a bar and make it Ex, I'd be okay with that. That way, Quan's defense would improve drastically. Thus, he wouldn't have to spend most of his meter for breakers and some actual offense.

Secondly (and I guess thirdly), would be U+3 being hit-confirmable, and 2, 1, U+3 being able to link to trance.

I know what you mean by on-the-fence. If his D+1, or even all his strings in general, were faster he'd be too damn good.

Skeletal boost needs to be changed to a more beneficial use, or just gotten rid of all together. The move is almost a joke. I need to burn a bar to guarantee what buff I want.

Example:
I make the very unwise decision to end a combo with 1, 1, 2 instead of 1, 1, sky drop. When I do launch the opponent, I activate the boost (not the ex version) and I luckily enough get the damage one. By the time the hand has air hi-five'd my back, my opponent as already done either, A. a wake-up attack, or B. a recovery roll. If it was route A, I would have to either dodge or block depending on what wake-up attack is used. Destroying my buff before it's used. If they take route B, I have to now hop through an obstacle course to get to my opponent.

In The Quan Chi Improvement Thread m2dave states that they should have different button inputs. That idea would be awesome. If this were the case, I would hardly use damage boost. I would just use health boost. It could be pretty creative to get some distance on your opponent and trigger the health boost. Effective? That's a whole 'nother story.

Now about those runes....

His runes are somewhat safe on block. I believe they're safe up to sweep distance. Any closer, if it wasn't an Ex Rune, you'll be eating some combos. Don't quote me on the specifics. I really need to test his rune. If that rune caused knockback like Shang's ground fireballs. I would be doing on-the-fly runes a lot more often. Also, if they were like that, I would be ending a lot of blocked strings with rune.

EDIT:

....2 useless special moves (Skeletal Boost/Ground Burst.)

Regular Ground Burst is debatable on it's uses, King. Ex Ground Burst on the other hand, is very viable. Especially, for setting up frame traps and some sort of 50/50 situation.

In some situations, if your 2, 1 is blocked, you can use Ex Rune to get a stagger state. During this stagger state I believe you can mix up into a F+1, 2 or a B+3, 1+2 into your choice of trance combo to keep the mix-up going, providing they don't fuzzy block it. U+3 can be used, but I would only use it if you know your opponent will block (low), or if you don't dash towards them (giving you space) and you know they won't block and try to punch their way out of pressure.

DOUBLE EDIT: His spacing on his whiff'd sky drop needs to be changed to. Go behind the opponent, they crouch block you eat a combo. All of his strings have pretty decent range. I don't see why he needs to land THAT close.

 

[Rude]

Quan Chi certainly has a high-risk factor to him. The fact that he lacks a decent wake-up alone is pretty damning. However, he does have a very impressive aggro game, and based on the video Mayo did, his mix-ups are pretty hard to read. Add to that his EX skull and Rune that can allow you to continue an even longer chain, and his trance that can win projectile wars reliably, and there is something to the albino necromancer.

I think his lack of a wake-up is a purposeful weakness; one that doesn't need changing due to balance, maybe? What would he wake up with? Skull? Rune?

Just my thoughts. I see potential.

 

[shoshinsha]

Quan Chi certainly has a high-risk factor to him. The fact that he lacks a decent wake-up alone is pretty damning. However, he does have a very impressive aggro game, and based on the video Mayo did, his mix-ups are pretty hard to read. Add to that his EX skull and Rune that can allow you to continue an even longer chain, and his trance that can win projectile wars reliably, and there is something to the albino necromancer.

I think his lack of a wake-up is a purposeful weakness; one that doesn't need changing due to balance, maybe? What would he wake up with? Skull? Rune?

Just my thoughts. I see potential.

Sky Drop should be an 8-frame move, imo. That would solve about 90% of his problems.

 

[Vilén]

Sky Drop should be an 8-frame move, imo. That would solve about 90% of his problems.

Not really. Not that it wouldn't be hilarious to see a character who had a faster version of Smoke's telepunch, only this one sets up a vortex. Usable normals would solve more problems.

I think Quan-Chi is just an incomplete character that NRS half-assed for one reason or another. I think I understand the on-paper logic behind his lack of defensive options, just not the in-practice logic. I have some buff ideas that I think keep in spirit with (admittedly, my idea of) NRS's character vision here.

- Give maybe 1 less frame of start-up
- Different inputs for damage/health bonus on Skeletal Boost (more of a fix than a buff, random is so stupid)
- Can Skeletal Boost after Trance, but this ends the Trance state.
- Decent + frames on blocked Rune for pressure (i.e. ~close Rune x N). His meter game is the best thing about him, but he's so bad at building it, it's embarrassing. And considering his only real defensive options are uppercut and breaker, I don't really see anything wrong with this guy having almost Kabal-like pressure.

He'll still have shitty normals, but I really think the and Rune-pressure-buff are all he needs to become not LOL-tier. He'll still have dick defensive options and ass normals, but you're looking at a character with good lockdown and a great vortex game, but a completely reasonable weakness in that he can't handle being pressured.

I'm not so sure about hit-confirmable anymore. It's interesting, but should his 50/50 game really be completely safe given his vortex ability? Well, if they give him my pressure buff and/or my less-start-up-on--buff, I don't think it should be confirmable, but if they don't, then yeah, it definitely should be. Right now I don't really see + / as the 50/50 it wants to be.

 

[Altaire]

I have to laugh at the people who complain about Quan Chi's lack of wakeup options.

Shang Tsung wants a word with you, motherfucker.

 

[MagicMan357]

My only issue with quan is his horrible normals, you cannot apply pressure with them at all and can easily get interrupted

 

[Vilén]

I have to laugh at the people who complain about Quan Chi's lack of wakeup options.

Shang Tsung wants a word with you, motherfucker.

Shang Tsung has beastly zoning and pressure, though. Quan-Chi's bad at everything; people just want him to excel in at least one area that isn't spending meter. But Quan is so bad people haven't put in a lot of time with him so I don't think most people really understand the spirit of the character.

Quan-Chi should play in a similar vein to Shang Tsung (lol sorcerers). Shang Tsung is awesome at pressure and zoning, while spending meter for combos. Quan-Chi should be awesome at pressure and mixups, while spending meter to fuck your blockbutton in the face. And you don't try to zone either of these shitheads for obvious reasons. But where it's at now, Quan has nothing even REMOTELY good enough to justify his lack of defensive options. Like Shang Tsung, he should be hilariously good when he's in your face, and hilariously bad when you're in his face. At this point, Quan is just hilarious.

I think my buffs are reasonable.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

I have to laugh at the people who complain about Quan Chi's lack of wakeup options.

Shang Tsung wants a word with you, motherfucker.

Shang can use EX Soulsteal on Wake Up, which is armored, to deal with pressure. Quan Chi can't use sky drop, even ex skydrop, to deal with pressure. So, Quan really should have that word with Shang

 

[Vilén]

Shang can use EX Soulsteal on Wake Up, which is armored, to deal with pressure. Quan Chi can't use sky drop, even ex skydrop, to deal with pressure. So, Quan really should have that word with Shang

I didn't realize that move was armored. Yeah, NRS really half-assed it on this character, didn't they?

Unless I get dicksmacked with new Quan technology, I stand firmly by my buff list. I might be a little biased in that with those buffs (really, just if he had a decent pressure game), he'd be my new main. But I don't see how it'd hurt anybody to make this guy better; he wouldn't even be S tier after my suggestions. He's just two inches on the wrong side of the fence. I find it infuriating that this guy is one hotfix away from being competitive and I don't really see NRS giving him anything anytime soon.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

I didn't realize that move was armored. Yeah, NRS really half-assed it on this character, didn't they?

Unless I get dicksmacked with new Quan technology, I stand firmly by my buff list. I might be a little biased in that with those buffs (really, just if he had a decent pressure game), he'd be my new main. But I don't see how it'd hurt anybody to make this guy better; he wouldn't even be S tier after my suggestions. He's just two inches on the wrong side of the fence. I find it infuriating that this guy is one hotfix away from being competitive and I don't really see NRS giving him anything anytime soon.

In all honesty, if sky drop was fixed (wake-up, and distance on whiff), skeletal boost, and 2, 1, U+3 linking to trance, Quan Chi would be fine. Even mid to upper tier.

EDIT: BTW, his xray is useless, but don't try and do it on crouching opponent, if you do. It hit's high and can be ducked ugghhh lol

 

[The Dude]

Do not underestimate Quan Chi. I do agree.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

You know, I agree with a lot of the issues people have with Quan, but I think a mistake being made is that people want him to be a rushdown character. They see mixups into launchers like Liu Kang's, and they think they need to be on offense all the time. Then, they play higher level players and find out that constant mixups at the speed of Quan are easily read and blocked. And then they wonder what they're supposed to do now!!!

People in MK9 think that if a character can't constantly run at his opponent like "yah yah yah YAH YAH yah yah!" attacking constantly, then there's a problem. I'm not saying that quan isn't limited in other ways... He is. Sky drop should take him further, EX sky drop or EX rune should have armor to be a wake up option. And I absolutely believe the 2 at the end of his 1 1 2 string shouldn't be duckable, so he'd at least have a poke option that pushed the opponent way. But...

Look, when you're fighting better players, the mix ups are simply a reminder that they are there. Come in with a F1 2 skydrop whiff, just to keep them on their toes for the mix ups. Then use the fear to your advantage to get a 2 1 2 EX Rune, followed by a guaranteed throw. Or a blocked crossover 2 1 2 skydrop whiff to build half a bar of meter. The rest of his game is mind games. Reading their projectiles for trances. Uppercutting jump ins. And colliding in the air with a jumpkick into sky drop every time. It's still very hard against Liu and Raiden, but you'd be suprised how well this works against hyperactive characters like Kung and Smoke.

You can do it!

 

[Vilén]

Mind games are a single facet of the game overall. They're a major part of Quan-Chi's game because he has little else. You can play a mind-game oriented style with characters other than Quan-Chi and still do better because those other characters bring something more to the table than fast uppercut, whiff sky drop gimmicks and EN Rune traps. Those traps by the way have the potential to really screw you later in the fight since breaker is your only defensive option and Quan has some of the slowest meter gain in the game.

The idea behind the Rune pressure buff was to 1) make regular Rune not hilariously worthless and 2) to give him a meter battery more fruitful and reliable than spamming skulls and hoping your opponent doesn't catch on to the 2 1 2~whiff Sky Drop shenanigans. And in the process making him good at something other than waiting for mistakes and "mind games", which all characters are good at because, like I said, that's part of the meta-game, not a playstyle.

Look, when you're fighting better players, the mix ups are simply a reminder that they are there.

See, I'm of the mindset that Quan-Chi's tool should be "good" rather than "just there."

 

[shoshinsha]

In all honesty, if sky drop was fixed (wake-up, and distance on whiff), skeletal boost, and 2, 1, U+3 linking to trance, Quan Chi would be fine. Even mid to upper tier.

EDIT: BTW, his xray is useless, but don't try and do it on crouching opponent, if you do. It hit's high and can be ducked ugghhh lol

These are precisely the buffs I'd like to see. Sky Drop gets wakeup invincibility (TRUE invincibility until you start dropping from the ceiling) AND can actually be whiffed whenever you want to whiff it. Skeletal Boost gets different buttons for each boost. 21u+3 can be special canceled. It'd be nice if Trance got invincible wakeup, too, or some ex armor, but I don't want to push it.

Can we organize some kind of movement to bombard Paulo's and/or Ed's twitter with requests for these?

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Can we organize some kind of movement to bombard Paulo's and/or Ed's twitter with requests for these?

I don't think that's necessary. Some of the NRS staff have accounts here. I'm sure they browse the character forums, and I'm also sure they had to have seen The Quan-Chi Improvement Thread..... right?

 

[shoshinsha]

I don't think that's necessary. Some of the NRS staff have accounts here. I'm sure they browse the character forums, and I'm also sure they had to have seen The Quan-Chi Improvement Thread..... right?

If you say so... >_>

 

[M2Dave]

I don't think that's necessary. Some of the NRS staff have accounts here. I'm sure they browse the character forums, and I'm also sure they had to have seen The Quan-Chi Improvement Thread..... right?

They have, and REO talked to Hector Sanchez at Evo and brought some of Quan Chi's weaknesses to his attention. We'll see what happens in the next patch.

 

[chessmaster]

why does it matter what tier he is? there is nothing stopping you from picking quan chi since you dont consider him low tier.