Match-up Discussion Alright, here is my Deathstroke matchup chart, would like to hear the thoughts of the community

[Ermaculate_Slim]

i have a hard time to get him to stop moving if i use high guns still. his walk speed is fast enough that he can still close the gap. of course you can check him for dashing in recklessly with certain pokes (my go to choices are f3, f23 and stand 3 for plus frames) but that really seems like all you get. and yeah you can punish EX lightning charge for some reason the 2nd hit says its mid in training mode but it totally whiffs on crouching. i just go with 323 f23 flip because of the scaling on d2s. it seems like you have a similar approach to the matchup as i do but i don't see how it doesnt make it still absurdly in flash's favor because it still seems like you are fishing for mistakes like i do and i dont even think fishing for mistakes really should be accounted for in a character matchup, rather a player matchup.

Well you aren't going to keep him out forever of course just when he gets in you are gonna have to block well and play footsies.If you land a d1 you can either backdash to get some distance, follow up with a B222 ,f23 or grab.Since his d1 is low you can do b222 right after to create that mix up.You can either do B222 or just B2 to get em to block high and since they may think you are gonna finish the entire string you can sneak a B1 in there. DS has alot of answers in this Match up you just have to find em.

 

[M2Dave]

The only flash players i have played are Insayne who has an amazing flash and CD Jr. The rest are online randoms who are hit or miss, either solid or scrubby.

I'm fully aware of his damage output, but how does b22 out range his s3? or f3 which causes all advancing moves by flash to whiff? I'm also pretty sure that deathstrokes d2 being 12 frames has a pretty damn good horizontal hitbox to contest the b22. Correct me if im wrong but isn't the b22 the overhead punch?

f+2 is the overhead punch. b+2,2 is something different. b+2 looks like a punch that swipes at you.

Again, this match up is not complicated.

Who beats or goes even with The Flash? Characters that can reliably zone him (i.e., Batman, Superman, Zod, etc.) or run away from him (i.e., Black Adam, etc.).

You can either reliably zone him and/or run away from him and win or you cannot, in which case you lose.

Deathstroke cannot because his zoning tools are too unsafe, so he loses.

Simple as that.

 

[DFC]

So, I have a super hard time against Ares and Wonder Woman. I'm absolutely clueless out there. Maybe it's because watching Wonder Woman combo me puts me to sleep, maybe it's because it's a ridiculously bad matchup. I don't know, but what I do know is that I end up one loss higher at the end of it

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

Do not bother. This forum is stubborn. They will claim 5:5 because low gunshots being punishable anywhere on the screen is no big deal and his 50/50 mix ups are as good as Killer Frost's.

So we are stubborn because we disagree with you?Idk what makes you think just because you claim something is bad makes it fact and law.Also, if you don't play this character anymore why do you even care?

 

[NYCj360]

f+2 is the overhead punch. b+2,2 is something different. b+2 looks like a punch that swipes at you.

Again, this match up is not complicated.

Who beats or goes even with The Flash? Characters that can reliably zone him (i.e., Batman, Superman, Zod, etc.) or run away from him (i.e., Black Adam, etc.).

You can either reliably zone him and/or run away from him and win or you cannot, in which case you lose.

Deathstroke cannot because his zoning tools are too unsafe, so he loses.

Simple as that.

Ah i understand what move that is, that lunging elbow normal, yeah that does out range the up close pokes but isn't 15 frames a little much of a startup?

It definitely isn't complicated man i agree, but it's not so black and white either, this isn't rock paper scissors.

I do trust your opinion on certain matchups so i will have to test out the matchup further myself with some more good players but have you played this match up recently now that you have gotten better at the game? that is if you still play DS.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

A few things I disagree.
Flash vs DS is "almost" 7-3 imo, probably 1 of the worst MU's for DS in the current patch.
5-5 vs Doom? I always felt this MU was in DD favor.
I have watched the punish guide for DS by Tony, still I think a smart Doomsday player won't just throw moves out like whatsoever and can give DS quite some trouble.
About the SuperM MU I feel like this does favor DS, probably not by much, but DS has the favor.
This is just my opinion and I might be completely wrong.

 

[M2Dave]

Ah i understand what move that is, that lunging elbow normal, yeah that does out range the up close pokes but isn't 15 frames a little much of a startup?

It definitely isn't complicated man i agree, but it's not so black and white either, this isn't rock paper scissors.

I do trust your opinion on certain matchups so i will have to test out the matchup further myself with some more good players but have you played this match up recently now that you have gotten better at the game? that is if you still play DS.

15 frames of start up is acceptable if the move has very good range. Black Adam's b+2 is also 15F. I think The Flash's b+2 has almost as much range as Superman's f+2.

I played Zyphox online and my cousin Master D. offline. The match is very bad. I know I talk about zoning a lot, but the difference in damage output is gigantic, which is the real issue. How can Deathstroke make up 60% of life? You need to hit two combos, yet The Fash only needs to hit one (with trait).

Zod verus The Flash is so much easier. You can safely put a fireball on the screen, push back The Flash to almost full screen away via MB low laser, activate trait, use MB side arm which is 100% safe, etc. Do you see how the tools are there for Zod and not for Deathstroke?

You are arguably the best and most dedicated Deathstroke player right now, but you need to be honest and educate this forum.

If the low tier characters receive buffs in the next patch as Lobo did, Deathstroke will be low tier.

 

[YOMI DJT]

general m2dave you're getting annoying!!! aha

 

[DFC]

I see I've walked into something... interesting. I also got a thorough lashing by da yellow guy, so I'll ask about him too

 

[Mikman360]

Apparently disagreeing with m2dave is being dishonest, even when he acknowledges inferiority in terms of skill.

 

[M2Dave]

Apparently disagreeing with m2dave is being dishonest, even when he acknowledges inferiority in terms of skill.

Deathstroke is neither top 5 nor top 10. His trait is not superior to Zod's.

Something has to speak some sense in this forum.

 

[yaoding09]

Apparently disagreeing with m2dave is being dishonest, even when he acknowledges inferiority in terms of skill.

He is an obvious troll. Why else would he be done with DS but always found in these forums? Its not to help anyone.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

I think Dave has stated more times than I can count that he still uses DS as some sort of secondary, that he's mid-tier, and that Zod is good.

Yet all I see from so many people is shitting on him for talking about DS when he doesn't even use him, for saying that DS is low-tier, and for saying that Zod is low-tier.

Shit, I feel like people are gonna be bitching about Dave longer than he was about Low Shots....


I'd like to point out, Bane is getting buffs because of how downplayed that character is (people who say he's the worst in the game when people who either have or have seen a good Bane know otherwise). Now with all the upplaying I DO see on DS, if anything, he;s just gonna get nerfed harder and fall to low-tier and NOT be usable in a competitive sense.

Starting to feel like half of Injustice is balancing out how people discuss your character.... Talk about them as good? Get nerfed (need it or not). Say they're garbage? Get buffed (needed or not).

I think DS is a solid character, but goddamn, can we at least admit he does struggle in some MUs...

 

[RM Jonnitti]

who gives a shit what happens to the game. we cant do anything about it because NRS humors scrubs. lets just play the god damn game

 

[Mikman360]

Deathstroke is neither top 5 nor top 10. His trait is not superior to Zod's.

Something has to speak some sense in this forum.

You're lying to yourself to make yourself feel better. You find the one post where someone specifically said "Hay gaiz, DS trait > Zod's" and I'll eat my Injustice disc.

 

[haketh]

the fact that she can punish low guns from anywhere shouldnt matter if you can react to all of her zoning tools and punish her for it because why the fuck would you use low guns to poke if you aren't mentally challenged. people still think low guns is the best thing since sliced bread and if you can punish it then they automatically 7-3 deathstroke. i actually think before the low guns nerf it was 6.5-3.5 DS because she reallly had trouble getting in and she really needed to get you in the vortex to get shit started. now it feels like both of you have similar tools and similar damage output.

Low guns and guns in general being off the table is important because they are one of the characters key tools. Without those being on the table for a MU you have to sue his footsies, which are legit but at that range the game is in KFs hands. Do what I did, pick up the character for awhile, I thought the MU was even to in our favor till I started playing her and learned more from Khaotik and watched how Frost plays MUs.

He is an obvious troll. Why else would he be done with DS but always found in these forums? Its not to help anyone.

Because Dave is still extremely knoweldgeable and a good resource for information. Even if he trolls a shitton.

 

[Vagrant]

Ok... matchup I didn't study very hard and didn't really play anyone exceptional with him until tonight.....

Bane.

I had no idea what the fuck was going on.... When he's armored, when he's not when I can wake up when I can't wakeup, where to block,how to avoid body press, etc.

Mikman360 Any notes on this matchup you can share with me? General gameplay?

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Ok... matchup I didn't study very hard and didn't really play anyone exceptional with him until tonight.....

Bane.

I had no idea what the fuck was going on.... When he's armored, when he's not when I can wake up when I can't wakeup, where to block,how to avoid body press, etc.

Mikman360 Any notes on this matchup you can share with me? General gameplay?

play it hella lame. keep him full screen. when he uses the charge with venom jump over and punish. ideally have him land on a ji3. body press you're just going to have to block, but you can jb3 him if you space it correctly. he has a few thins overhead so block standing. his lows are d1 b1 and b2. b2 is 18 frames nd you can readct to it with training if your reactions are good. mine are pretty ass so i wont react to tht. b1 i think is 17 so maybe if you have really good reactions you can get that. d1 he isnt getting much other than plus frames. you can shoot him all day until he decides to charge at you with venom but just play it patiently and it should be mega free

 

[Mikman360]

Ok... matchup I didn't study very hard and didn't really play anyone exceptional with him until tonight.....

Bane.

I had no idea what the fuck was going on.... When he's armored, when he's not when I can wake up when I can't wakeup, where to block,how to avoid body press, etc.

Mikman360 Any notes on this matchup you can share with me? General gameplay?

Honestly I'm sorta in the same boat as you on that one lol. A good Bane is gonna kick my ass one day just because I don't know him well enough because I just default it to a "Good matchup."

Every rampaging charge I jump over I punish with MB Quick Fire.
Learn to block his dam mixups. As amazing as DS' wakeup game is, it's gonna do jack squat against his armor.
He's got a low starter and an overhead popup. Try to make these reads and block.
Don't pressure him on wakeup when he's got venom. Do NOT try CoD on him.
Keepaway is your friend here. He can't rampaging charge because MB Quick Fire will eat him for breakfast when you jump over it. Hopefully by the time he makes it in by block dashing, he'll be venom withdrawn.
B23F2 is your overhead friend in this matchup. Don't bother with B222, you can't take advantage of the HKD on this guy.
Trait can actually be useful in this matchup... maybe.

 

[YOMI DJT]

I think aqua beats deathstroke because if aqua ducks hi gun, he can get trident punish. He can only use low guns vs aqua. 6-4 aqua

 

[RM Jonnitti]

I think aqua beats deathstroke because if aqua ducks hi gun, he can get trident punish. He can only use low guns vs aqua. 6-4 aqua

i personally saw high guns as being very useful against aquaman from certain distances

 

[Vagrant]

Aquaman can't really zone Ds at all. Blocked FTD is free high gun punish
If you see trident startup you can low gun it on reaction if you practice it enough.

Mid to Sweep distance aquaman is what scares the shit out of me

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Aquaman can't really zone Ds at all. Blocked FTD is free high gun punish
If you see trident startup you can low gun it on reaction if you practice it enough.

Mid to Sweep distance aquaman is what scares the shit out of me

i feel this way too. his normals are a pain in the balls and he does serious chip. trident isnt really that threatening. just dont ue low guns from 3/4 screen. if he starts getting reckless with trident you can punish him and if he has trait, mb machine gun will run out his trait so he cant do more safe tridents. not sure if its practical at all but its food for thought.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Yo.... so, just got my shit pushed in my Raven....

Any tips on this MU?

I'll have some footage later of my tourney nerve ridden match

 

[Mikman360]

Punish every failed grab with Quick Fires
Quick Fire her face if she tries to use trait. She'll get it on eventually, but make it hell for her in the meantime, it has a LOT of startup time. Dont forget air QF for air trait activations.
Ducking > trait. Blocks everything, if she teleports, react with a D2 combo.
Understand her frametraps, do NOT fall for them
No blind jumping midscreen. She's mad negative on failed grabs.
Dont be afraid to blow meter on MB F3/B3. Ravens have to blow a lot of meter to combo you anyways.