Which fighter do you feel is MOST in need of help to compete better with the others? - the poll

[sling1414]

Dude, Parappa's newest skin is straight up Suit & Tie. That's pretty pimp.

@Spore
A lot of characters can do the reverse wake-up thing. Bane can do it off of 22 late dash in the corner.

But the purple coat man!!!

 

[AssassiN]

NW is Skarlet tier !

Flash got like a million buffs, it's only fair NW gets the same treatment.

 

[GEMINIVice]

Why Hawkgirl doesn't have an air dash but has an attack in the air that lets her air dash is beyond me, but lookin at all the characters does she really need the "most" help...? She seems a lot more solid than someone like Shazam...

Every one up in the poll needs the help (personally could careless about Scorpion). I'm speaking for Hawkgirl, because that's the one I have experience with. Yeah she does good damage from combos in a low number of hits. But it's hard to land a decent combo with her if the opponent likes to block high (or just hold back most of the match). The BnBs she has involve an opener that hits either Overhead, High, or Mid.

The arc on her jump is high (useful against projectile spammers, but bad if trying to crossup).

Her specials are good. But for me, I really don't want to abuse them to the point where I risk showing a pattern and being predictable.

 

[Doombawkz]

But the purple coat man!!!

But he is sooooooooooooo old.

 

[Tony at Home]

I vote for my nigga Scorpion , it seems bias tho but Scorp and MMH are the only chars that i care. And the Scorpion nerf is stupid.

Scorpion will be un-nerfed, at least in terms of damage. The damage reduction was so ridiculous i'm 90% sure it was just an NRS scheme to discourage casuals from playing nothing but him, since online it was nothing but Scorpy's for a few weeks.

They'll be like "ok, they're trying out new characters, we can un-fuck Scorpion now!"

 

[Qwark28]

Why isn't Nightwing in this poll?

beucase fuck off

 

[SaJa]

Flash got like a million buffs, it's only fair NW gets the same treatment.

Flash was Shazam tier before getting buffed. Makes sens

 

[Doombawkz]

Every one up in the poll needs the help (personally could careless about Scorpion). I'm speaking for Hawkgirl, because that's the one I have experience with. Yeah she does good damage from combos in a low number of hits. But it's hard to land a decent combo with her if the opponent likes to block high (or just hold back most of the match). The BnBs she has involve an opener that hits either Overhead, High, or Mid.

The arc on her jump is high (useful against projectile spammers, but bad if trying to crossup).

Her specials are good. But for me, I really don't want to abuse them to the point where I risk showing a pattern and being predictable.

The addition of an air dash could help with all that.

Her specials are good though, and at the risk of sounding like I'm downplaying her needs I don't see a problem with something being abused when it is abused in a good way. I've played some of the best Hawkgirls and I have to say that barring her inability to properly wake-up against Bane... she is solid and has good power in good places. That's not to say she is perfect, but no character should be.

I never see hawkgirls using b.13 set-ups either :/ Makes me sad because that is probably one of her better strings since it can be made to provide an extension to your combos and all, and also gives some wicked oki ability.

 

[Groove Heaven]

Yes and spectators aren't perfect.

It costs him 1 bar, that's not much of a cost since he gets most all of it back.
Also saying 90% is an overestimation then saying "He has it, but its difficult. His practical stuff is 80%" when to a spectator the difference inbetween an amount as small as 5% per combo isn't noticeable. Its not people flaunting numbers like "Oh he totally gets this much off combos." Its people saying "He has done what looks like 90%+ combos in resets". Most people who say numbers, from what I've seen, either hear it from other people or observe it themselves. I've observed Superman getting 71% in the corner so I know he can. I've observed a Cyrax at EVO getting in and plowing out near-death off of one touch, the amounts of which looked like almost 90% or so.

You said DJT won EVO using 90%+ combos, and I pointed out that you're wrong. You're going "BRO IT'S ONLY A 5% DIFFERENCE" when I straight up told you you're off by 10-20%. Don't give me some backpeddling malarchy that it's implied that you don't actually know the damage values. I've seen hundreds of cases of people making positive statements about his damage and being wholly wrong when knowing his actual damage output is as easy as watching match footage and adding 2 numbers together.

I'm saying his 90%+ combos are combo video material, and many Cyrax players have proven this at a high level (no disrespect to them, that shit very very difficult). It's as if you were telling me Kung Lao is too good because Doctrine Dark pushes these insane 70%+ triple-spin, double-divekick combos.

 

[sling1414]

You said DJT won EVO using 90%+ combos, and I pointed out that you're wrong. You're going "BRO IT'S ONLY A 5% DIFFERENCE" when I straight up told you you're off by 10-20%. Don't give me some backpeddling malarchy that it's implied that you don't actually know the damage values. I've seen hundreds of cases of people making positive statements about his damage and being wholly wrong when knowing his actual damage output is as easy as watching match footage and adding 2 numbers together.

I'm saying his 90%+ combos are combo video material, and many Cyrax players have proven this at a high level (no disrespect to them, that shit very very difficult). It's as if you were telling me Kung Lao is too good because Doctrine Dark pushes these insane 70%+ triple-spin, double-divekick combos.

Regardless of whether these 90% combos are actually done in high level play the fact still remain, HE HAS A FKING 90% COMBO

 

[TheSpore]

Her specials are good though, and at the risk of sounding like I'm downplaying her needs I don't see a problem with something being abused when it is abused in a good way. I've played some of the best Hawkgirls and I have to say that barring her inability to properly wake-up against Bane... she is solid and has good power in good places. That's not to say she is perfect, but no character should be.

I never see hawkgirls using b.13 set-ups either :/ Makes me sad because that is probably one of her better strings since it can be made to provide an extension to your combos and all, and also gives some wicked oki ability.

Your right about HG and the Bane match-up is one I know quite a bit, but yeah her specials are to abusible and they really can become extremly predictable, her MC as a wake-up is her best wake-up, yet can be easliy stopped, and using WE as a wake-up is too slow and punishble. The B1 3 string is a great and fast punisher, but B1 can lead into a few good combos, liek B1WE3, whcih if yit puts you in a cornerits gonn be painful for you and her mix-ups in the corner are hard to figure out. She has a solid corner game IMO, but her B1 also can lead to trait 23 or even a trait 2 MC. Again though you are stil relying heavily on those specials.

 

[Doombawkz]

You said DJT won EVO using 90%+ combos, and I pointed out that you're wrong. You're going "BRO IT'S ONLY A 5% DIFFERENCE" when I straight up told you you're off by 10-20%. Don't give me some backpeddling malarchy that it's implied that you don't actually know the damage values. I've seen hundreds of cases of people making positive statements about his damage and being wholly wrong when knowing his actual damage output is as easy as watching match footage and adding 2 numbers together.

I'm saying his 90%+ combos are combo video material, and many Cyrax players have proven this at a high level (no disrespect to them, that shit very very difficult). It's as if you were telling me Kung Lao is too good because Doctrine Dark pushes these insane 70%+ triple-spin, double-divekick combos.

5% per combo x Resets require 2 or more combos = 5x2(3...4...5...etc) = 10% or more. However, its not a 10% chunk but two or three smaller 5% chunks which, yes, would naturally go unnoticed to people not specifically looking at damage. As much as you want to match wits with me and be correct, you should actually read what I am saying as I explicitly say "per combo" in my statement you responded to. This is especially true if he does any extra form of damage that isn't just a flat unit of damage (41% into 39%, or 44% into 36%, for example, instead of simply 40%/40%.) as this doesn't allow for us to make any real observation on it as a set of wholes. We see damage that could be closer or further apart, or in bigger and smaller chunks, and for the people who are watching we only have the grand total to go off of. Unless he does only that reset, it would be impossible to say for sure as a spectator that his damage is 80% or 82% or 90% because the noticeable difference between the two combos and any other residual damage just isn't evident to people not specifically looking for it. If he squeezed even 3% extra off of both combos, that would make it an 86%, something that would be nearly impossible to discern from a glance from 90%

This is also made difficult for the spectator that the only value we see is the value of the second combo after the reset. We have to base what the amounts are in a fast paced game where the next combo is likely already coming out and theres extra bits of damage everywhere. I would have to go back and really look hard to tell you exactly how much damage he did with his reset, so don't act so high and mighty as though no one should be able to miss this and no one should ever make the mistake. I main Cyrax, and even I wouldn't be able to tell you off-handed that it was for sure a certain percentage.

 

[Doombawkz]

Your right about HG and the Bane match-up is one I know quite a bit, but yeah her specials are to abusible and they really can become extremly predictable, her MC as a wake-up is her best wake-up, yet can be easliy stopped, and using WE as a wake-up is too slow and punishble. The B1 3 string is a great and fast punisher, but B1 can lead into a few good combos, liek B1WE3, whcih if yit puts you in a cornerits gonn be painful for you and her mix-ups in the corner are hard to figure out. She has a solid corner game IMO, but her B1 also can lead to trait 23 or even a trait 2 MC. Again though you are stil relying heavily on those specials.

I dunno, I think I did something like 123 into a delayed b.13 and it made the mace only hit once going up and once going back, allowing me to combo afterwards.

Also Hawkgirl v Bane is a 5-5, so from the fact that Bane blows out all of Hawkgirl's specials she has to have something good about her outside of those.

 

[GEMINIVice]

Her specials are good though, and at the risk of sounding like I'm downplaying her needs I don't see a problem with something being abused when it is abused in a good way. I've played some of the best Hawkgirls and I have to say that barring her inability to properly wake-up against Bane... she is solid and has good power in good places. That's not to say she is perfect, but no character should be.

I never see hawkgirls using b.13 set-ups either :/ Makes me sad because that is probably one of her better strings since it can be made to provide an extension to your combos and all, and also gives some wicked oki ability.

Yeah her specials are good, but like I stated before, if a player likes to hold 'straight back' or likes to block high then all those good specials are gonna get blocked. None of her specials/MBs are unblockable or hit low.

And the way some Hawkgirl players use those moves, NRS may be thinking about nerfing some of them (such as making Mace Charge unsafe on block).

 

[TheSpore]

Yeah her specials are good, but like I stated before, if a player likes to hold 'straight back' or likes to block high then all those good specials are gonna get blocked. None of her specials/MBs are unblockable or hit low.

And the way some Hawkgirl players use those moves, NRS may be thinking about nerfing some of them (such as making Mace Charge unsafe on block).

I pray they don't nerf her any, cause she is a solid characetr with only a few issues to her.

 

[Groove Heaven]

snip

I understand your explanation for why people are off, I'm just not ok with that meaning it's fine for them to spread incorrect information on the forums. We're all trying to get better here, throwing out bloated figures you didn't bother to check helps no one and there's no excuse for doing it.

And it's still just kind of ridiculous when the answer is on the screen 100 times in the EVO footage. We don't take our damage information from looking at a health bar and generalizing, the game tells you numbers. Just add them together. This is why combo threads don't go, "It does a little less than half your opponent's health bar," they say "47%." DJT did the same bnb over and over again (off of 12 his does like 80%), and yet announcers are just off-handedly going "This is gonna do 90%."

This community doesn't believe he does "90%+" (seriously, that number shows up so often it hurts) because they're looking at health bars and guessing, though. This community just spreads the lie that he does 90%+ every time he touches you and people just kind of believe it without actually checking it out, then continue to regurgitate it over and over again, further ingraining the idea, and it seems the same thing is gonna happen with Supes. That's what my original gripe was with. People throw out asspull numbers when we as a community should be as scientific and precise as possible.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Hawkgirl. Wish she would get something that helps her get in and do combos a little easier. I don't want to have to rely on her specials most of the match.

If you want this, Mace charge and Wing Evade 3 need to be unsafe.

 

[Metzos]

Lobo, Ares, Shazam, Joker and Bane.

 

[Prinz]

If you want Hawkgirl to have a better way in, than I suggest a better forward movement during flight. Her mace charge and WE3 are great tools and should not be touched.

 

[Ra Helios]

Dude IDK know where your getting this, but I have thus far yet to see a good CW player have issues with mobility, speed, and zoners. She can zone at least half screen away with a either her whip and her D+F 3, which equates to her being able to cover air, high, and low. She has plenty of speed and mobility and the ability to get in on an opponent on a consistant basis. Trust me those wants are very very un-needed for her. No to make you feel inferior or anything, but I know quite a few damn good CW players and I am one to use often as well.


Well I made thread of what needs buff about catwoman and most people agree with me. Good or not she need to be faster. Her whip is useless when it comes out and it can easily be read. So what you are saying dont make sense to me. I'm amazing catwoman player and she have ISSUES!!!!!!. She can get zone out easy and punish I'f not using catdash properly. Last time I check people was complaining about flash being slow. Guess what. He got buff. Buff. It time for catwoman mobility to be buff and her whip so it can be useful and not useless. Go to the catwoman forum. I posted a thread about catwoman buffs and ninj ingnorantly close it but when other threads said they need buffs I don't see him closing it. A lot of people wee complaining . Most PEOPLE SAY FASTER MOBILITY SPEEED!!!!!!!!. I don't think u r a hardcore catwoman player because if you were u will see what problem she has. N she has PROBLEMs. These problems I posted will make her well balance character. Right now she is not. sorry


Thank you for backing me up, I am not basing this off any assumption or over exaggeration, the evidence of how insanely OPed SM can be in the corner is right on You Tube, just watch some of KDZ's footage. The best example is one where he faces this BM player that was 100% dominating him and he destroyed the player with a straight up 71% combo in the corner. Believe me when I say this he needs a damage nerf, he has some of the most versitale and best strings in the game and is also one the best zoners too. I'm not saying SM cannot be beaten, but if he is left un-checked he will easily become this game's Kabal. Also the Flash needs some attention too, because his abilities tend do some very odd things with the game's mechanics that really show that they are not intentional, like in a corner he can make his opponent's wake-up occur pointing away form him and some characters when he can literally dash straight through them. Zod, should be changing his catch phrase from "I always Win" to "I always Glitch". He has too many strange issues ranging from a couple trait glitches, his carpet burn issue, and I think there is another I am just not remmebering ATM.

 

[TheSpore]

If you want Hawkgirl to have a better way in, than I suggest a better forward movement during flight. Her mace charge and WE3 are great tools and should not be touched.

Touching those tools would kill the character's play tremendously.

 

[HushoftheWind]

If you want this, Mace charge and Wing Evade 3 need to be unsafe.

Mace Charge already been nerfed, its only truly safe when MB.

 

[TheSpore]

Well I will take ytyour word for, because no I am no hardcore CW player, I only use her when I want to have a lil fun I main HG and typically know BG better than I know CW. I almost became a CW main wanted to saty away form her, because I wanted to learn new style of play and unfortunately CW fits me too well so yeah I don't mian her.

 

[TheSpore]

snip .

Not trying to back pedal on you or be a smart ass, but here is a few links for ya, but you are still discounted actual evidence of these combos existing. Below is a links to KDZ's 71% at the 8 Way Run against Darth Arma. Also a link to the 90% Cyrax combo from TonyT, yes it is a combo with resets broken up and added together becomes 90%... Note- for the KDZ vdideo fast foward to the end on the last combo KDZ is doing!

 

[GEMINIVice]

If you want this, Mace charge and Wing Evade 3 need to be unsafe.

I don't think WE 3 is safe, some characters can spam D + 1 after blocking it. I know for a fact it currently isn't safe on wake up. Her Mace Toss takes a long time to recover if it misses and isn't Meter Burned. Her D + 3 in the air is negative on block.

Mace Charge is the only safe special she has on block. But it can be stuffed by a handful of projectiles. Even Lobo's low chain grab beats Hawkgirl's Mace Charge.