[REQUEST] Red Hood for DLC

[Zero-Shift]

No shit. Did I say otherwise?

Your implication was Batgirl's martial arts skills in game aren't sufficient enough to render Canary's inclusion moot. I was just disagreeing.

 

[Tiger Wong]

I like Canary more but honestly we already have a female martial artist from Birds of Prey

No, you don't. BG is barely a martial artist and definitely not nearly the fighter BC is.

There is maybe 1 martial artist with martial artistesque moves and that's Batman.

And if anything, she has more "wiggle room" than Red Hood since.....
1) BG and Batman got gadgets all taken care of
2) Deathstroke got guns up the wazoo.

I like Red Hood too, but to say he's got more "wiggle room" as a character than BC is laughable on the surface. That doesn't mean NRS couldn't do some crazy shit with his movelist to make him different like they've done with Zod.

But if you're trying to base what's in the game now to BC and RH and say "Red Hood would probably be more unique" is borderline crazy talk.

 

[14K]

No, you don't. BG is barely a martial artist and definitely not nearly the fighter BC is.

There is maybe 1 martial artist with martial artistesque moves and that's Batman.

And if anything, she has more "wiggle room" than Red Hood since.....
1) BG and Batman got gadgets all taken care of
2) Deathstroke got guns up the wazoo.

I like Red Hood too, but to say he's got more "wiggle room" as a character than BC is laughable on the surface. That doesn't mean NRS couldn't do some crazy shit with his movelist to make him different like they've done with Zod.

But if you're trying to base what's in the game now to BC and RH and say "Red Hood would probably be more unique" is borderline crazy talk.

in a way i think your right but on the other hand im contradicting myself saying your wrong and let me explain why and in a way kinda try to say something similar to what Zero-Shift is saying...

Red Hood has Above average Martial Arts training, maybe very par on par with Canary even tho we dont get to see it much, their martial Arts Backgrounds are very diferent tho so im not going to go very much into that since it brings little relevance to the topic at hand...

another thing is that is see her in this game as "countergrappler" if that makes any sence, by this i mean her martial arts are mostly about using the opponents momentum and force against himself, in a way i translate this into an advanced type of parry system, in a way similar to the works of aquaman trait but with some "changing the upperhand" kinda thing where she could trait up and fallout in the middle of a combo by using a parry, im i making sence? also the Sonic scream but thast would just be very sindel like so i dont feel there is much need for me to explain that... but that is basicly as far as i can see her go, on the other hand we have red hood.

like i said on par martial artist to BC, but the array of weapons he knows how to use and basicly has with him makes him out to be more suitable for criativity then Canary...

He has Rhas Knife, as well as his Bionic arm Blades that showcase properties of gliding as well as cutting abilities, dual Guns as a staple, the All Blades that can only be used to its true power by him bleeding on them... this could prove an interesting Trait of ability in game that hasnt been done before... this is obviously just exemples and in no way im i counting out Canary as a possible good character to have... im just trying to say in way the room for criativity goes more to the Red Hood side than Canary but that parry system im speaking of is also something i would love to see in game...

Could you imagine a character able to change the pace of the game to her advantage even during an opponents combo? seems broken yes but properly tweaked and with enouth CDown to be on one hand usefull on the other no broken as it can be spammed seems very cool idea to me

 

[Zero-Shift]

But if you're trying to base what's in the game now to BC and RH and say "Red Hood would probably be more unique" is borderline crazy talk.

It's not really that crazy. I have faith NR can make any character sufficiently different from the roster based on preconceived notions. I just personally believe Red Hood has more potential than Canary if only slightly because I've spotted him using some rather exotic weapons at times. Granted, I haven't read a great deal of material for either character but I've read more stuff with Canary for what it's worth.

Just because I'm uncreative doesn't mean Canary couldn't be a worthy addition and the same goes for Red Hood or any other character people are clamoring for.

 

[14K]

It's not really that crazy. I have faith NR can make any character sufficiently different from the roster based on preconceived notions. I just personally believe Red Hood has more potential than Canary if only slightly because I've spotted him using some rather exotic weapons at times. Granted, I haven't read a great deal of material for either character but I've read more stuff with Canary for what it's worth.

Just because I'm uncreative doesn't mean Canary couldn't be a worthy addition and the same goes for Red Hood or any other character people are clamoring for.

I think there is always potential for any character in terms of Dc and Marvel World , if a character is taken seriously in the community its becaquse he has some type of appeal and thos making him or her a potential choise

 

[Niko Mar]

It's not really that crazy. I have faith NR can make any character sufficiently different from the roster based on preconceived notions. I just personally believe Red Hood has more potential than Canary if only slightly because I've spotted him using some rather exotic weapons at times. Granted, I haven't read a great deal of material for either character but I've read more stuff with Canary for what it's worth.

Yeah, I felt like they gave Zatanna a lot of Canary-esque moves (like the dive kick and multi-kick specials). Not saying they couldn't do something different with Canary, but it feels like they didn't have the idea of her as dlc in mind when creating some of Zatanna's moveset. Feels almost like they were moves that got left over from a scrapped Canary idea.

 

[Tiger Wong]

14K: I agree and I disagree with you.

1) Red Hood isn't nearly the martial artist BC is. BC is top 5 EASILY of all the main stream villians and heroes. Batman vs BC h2h is pretty much even. Obviously Lady Shiva is tops but even she has admitted BC is on par with her.
2) I believe like all of you that Red Hood's style can be implemented in a different way from Batman, BG, NW, and DS. But they're really gonna have to go to the well to do it. It seems so far, like NRS wants all the characters to be VASTLY different from each other. I mean damn...... they already gave BG blades and they can switch to be electric (BTW..... what a stupid ass trait for her to have), his dual pistols are taken by DS, the gadgets he'll use are probably gonna be similar to Batman and Batgirl. It can be done, though.

3) I see BC's style being like Gouken from SSFIV. Jump counter, mid counter, low counter. Everybody else in the game has a mid counter. She'll have all 3. Her trait could be a drawn breath where you hold trait like a buster shot from Megaman/Zero and then she can release it to take away the recovery of moves, start combos, and end combos. And the rest of her normals and specials you can make into nearly anything martial art based.

4) I dont know who Sindel is, and I dgaf. She/he isn't in this game.

 

[14K]

Yeah, I felt like they gave Zatanna a lot of Canary-esque moves (like the dive kick and multi-kick specials). Not saying they couldn't do something different with Canary, but it feels like they didn't have the idea of her as dlc in mind when creating some of Zatanna's moveset. Feels almost like they were moves that got left over from a scrapped Canary idea.

Couldnt agree more...some of Zatanna moves feel very alien to her specialy the ones yu just named... they are more Canary than Zatanna but whatever....

 

[Tiger Wong]

Yeah, I felt like they gave Zatanna a lot of Canary-esque moves (like the dive kick and multi-kick specials). Not saying they couldn't do something different with Canary, but it feels like they didn't have the idea of her as dlc in mind when creating some of Zatanna's moveset. Feels almost like they were moves that got left over from a scrapped Canary idea.

I actually agree with (and fear) this as well. I'm holding out hope and I fully believe that if/when she gets in, she won't be next. She'll be the last character added to the roster for her addition to coincide with Black Canary being added to cast of the Arrow TV show.

 

[Rokay]

I actually agree with (and fear) this as well. I'm holding out hope and I fully believe that if/when she gets in, she won't be next. She'll be the last character added to the roster for her addition to coincide with Black Canary being added to cast of the Arrow TV show.

I don't see it. Kicks aren't Black Canary's thing. She is actually more of a grappler/hand-to-hand fighter because she was trained by Wild Cat. She has a reputation for being good brawler.

Here's a good example:

 

[14K]

14K: I agree and I disagree with you.

1) Red Hood isn't nearly the martial artist BC is. BC is top 5 EASILY of all the main stream villians and heroes. Batman vs BC h2h is pretty much even. Obviously Lady Shiva is tops but even she has admitted BC is on par with her.
2) I believe like all of you that Red Hood's style can be implemented in a different way from Batman, BG, NW, and DS. But they're really gonna have to go to the well to do it. It seems so far, like NRS wants all the characters to be VASTLY different from each other. I mean damn...... they already gave BG blades and they can switch to be electric (BTW..... what a stupid ass trait for her to have), his dual pistols are taken by DS, the gadgets he'll use are probably gonna be similar to Batman and Batgirl. It can be done, though.

3) I see BC's style being like Gouken from SSFIV. Jump counter, mid counter, low counter. Everybody else in the game has a mid counter. She'll have all 3. Her trait could be a drawn breath where you hold trait like a buster shot from Megaman/Zero and then she can release it to take away the recovery of moves, start combos, and end combos. And the rest of her normals and specials you can make into nearly anything martial art based.

4) I dont know who Sindel is, and I dgaf. She/he isn't in this game.

Well i kinda set up myself there going into the what comic character is stronger here doing this or that... this is always an impass when it comes to this stuff... but i see your point of view...

I think Red Hood has a lot of stuff that can make him quite original without really needing to go to the well to do it, Ds and Red Hood having dual guns doesnt mean they have to use them in the same way I.e (Shazam, Black Adam), BG blades are not even blades.. i dont even know wth those things are, they seem like back scratchers to me... but the All blades are literally dual blades as in 2 swords, and his Rhas knife is meant to be used with his Hand 2 Hand combat... for the Gadgets well yes they are similar, as gadgets go, they are only personalized to his persona for example Red Hood "batarangs" or even personalized Explosives such as grenades and C4 mines... but this seems a bit irrelevant as with his gameplay i douht they would make him plant C4... throwing Grenades maybe i guess but somehow i douht it...

Still think 2 characters can be similar and have the same tools but use them diferently... i dont think this is the case with Red Hood since no one uses Dual BLades in the game specially blades that can only have true power if you bleed on them... Bionic Arm Blades that can make you Glide and cut with a further range than swords... Dual Guns yeah sure Ds has them... i dunno really it seems more a matter of opinion than actuall facts at play here at this point but you know its up to NRS to make good character, character we want and have interest in playing so i think they will try their best to please, this is still a business after all and if the product in not appealing no one will buy...

 

[14K]

I don't see it. Kicks aren't Black Canary's thing. She is actually more of a grappler/hand-to-hand fighter because she was trained by Wild Cat. She has a reputation for being good brawler.

Here's a good example:

well that depends in her iteration, she had many diferent fighting styles thru the years... some wher emore brawly, others where more kicks and punches... tho the more recent iteration of her seems to be more Brawler also to match up some of her past with Wild cat

 

[Rokay]

well that depends in her iteration, she had many diferent fighting styles thru the years... some wher emore brawly, others where more kicks and punches... tho the more recent iteration of her seems to be more Brawler also to match up some of her past with Wild cat

Not, really. It's pretty consistent and established in her character. She's more of an upper body fighter. Of course she kicks too like any and every fighter but that doesn't make her fighting style like Hwoarang. I don't know any iteration where should primarily known for her kicks.

 

[Rokay]

14K: I agree and I disagree with you.

1) Red Hood isn't nearly the martial artist BC is. BC is top 5 EASILY of all the main stream villians and heroes. Batman vs BC h2h is pretty much even. Obviously Lady Shiva is tops but even she has admitted BC is on par with her.
2) I believe like all of you that Red Hood's style can be implemented in a different way from Batman, BG, NW, and DS. But they're really gonna have to go to the well to do it. It seems so far, like NRS wants all the characters to be VASTLY different from each other. I mean damn...... they already gave BG blades and they can switch to be electric (BTW..... what a stupid ass trait for her to have), his dual pistols are taken by DS, the gadgets he'll use are probably gonna be similar to Batman and Batgirl. It can be done, though.

3) I see BC's style being like Gouken from SSFIV. Jump counter, mid counter, low counter. Everybody else in the game has a mid counter. She'll have all 3. Her trait could be a drawn breath where you hold trait like a buster shot from Megaman/Zero and then she can release it to take away the recovery of moves, start combos, and end combos. And the rest of her normals and specials you can make into nearly anything martial art based./quote]

Also, Harley Quinn already has Gun Kata moves and dual pistols too. There are simply more than enough gun-based, gadget, Batman characters especially with 2 spots left.

Black Canary would be a better addition. She has more status within the DCU and is more unique overall. What's the point of a DC fighting game if you fill it up with so many character with no super powers? I like your counter design idea. It really fits her and there isn't a counter-rush down character build that way.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Wait, you're going off of her JLU incarnation?

Ewwwwwwwww........ She can barely beat Huntress in the cartoon.

In the comics, she mops the floor with her. Regularly.

 

[Zero-Shift]

I still maintain the belief that Batgirl should have been Black Canary from the beginning. People actually were asking for Canary and like 80% of that movelist, minimum, could have easily been applicable to her. Man, I really want to know who made that call and why.

Even so could make Black Canary stand out if she was DLC in the future. They're a creative bunch. My mind boggles at what they'd do for Booster Gold if he had a snowball's chance in hell being in this game.

I got Martian Manhunter so I'm pretty much satisfied for what I want in DLC. At this juncture all I really hope for is two decent villains and one of them to be Black Manta.

 

[Tiger Wong]

I also believe BG really screwed up a lot of possibilities for a character and she really wasn't highly requested. I actually think she took Red Hood's spot. Not on the hero's side. But as being the last straw for the "OMG NO! NOT ANOTHER BAT CHARACTER! WAAAAAAAAAH!" contingent.

I really don't see what BG and BC could have in common with movelists. That cartwheel is kinda...... junky. More for a dancer and gymnast than someone like BC. I see BC's martial art style more hard and thrusting. Maybe BG's teleport kick I would say is Dinah's style. But that's about it.

 

[Rokay]

Wait, you're going off of her JLU incarnation?

Ewwwwwwwww........ She can barely beat Huntress in the cartoon.

In the comics, she mops the floor with her. Regularly.

They gotta make it entertaining Black Canary is one of Bruce Timm's favorite character.

I still maintain the belief that Batgirl should have been Black Canary from the beginning. People actually were asking for Canary and like 80% of that movelist, minimum, could have easily been applicable to her. Man, I really want to know who made that call and why.

I maintain that Batgirl and Scorpion stole Red Hood's spot.

 

[Zero-Shift]

I really don't see what BG and BC could have in common with movelists. That cartwheel is kinda...... junky. More for a dancer and gymnast than someone like BC. I see BC's martial art style more hard and thrusting. Maybe BG's teleport kick I would say is Dinah's style. But that's about it.

To my untrained eye Batgirl's fighting looks pretty kick-boxy. Take out the batarangs and the zipline, replace it with sonic scream stuff and I think you'd have a fair movelist for Canary. I'll put it this way, if we got Canary instead of Batgirl with that nearly identical movelist, I don't think anybody would be complaining.

I maintain that Batgirl and Scorpion stole Red Hood's spot.

They stole spots from at least a dozen characters I can name off the top of my head that I personally think were more deserving.

 

[KCJ506]

Batgirl's inclusion was most likely through WB(they do own NRS). It was probably to help promote her new comic series.

And considering NRS made Batgirl different from Batman, Black Adam different from Shazam, Zod different from Superman, whose to say they can't make an actual martial artist that happens to have a sonic scream unique? And unlike Sindel, her sonic scream can have multiple uses. Such as knocking her opponent away with it, including it in at least one of her combos(like Superman's D1 heat vision and Zod using super breath in one of his combos), using it to reflect projectiles back at her opponent etc.

 

[trufenix]

I just hope she screams t hem up into the air then jumps up a nd screams them back down in her super.

 

[Red Hood]

In the comics, she mops the floor with her. Regularly.

That's what I was thinking.

Batgirl's inclusion was most likely through WB(they do own NRS). It was probably to help promote her new comic series.

And considering NRS made Batgirl different from Batman, Black Adam different from Shazam, Zod different from Superman, whose to say they can't make an actual martial artist that happens to have a sonic scream unique? And unlike Sindel, her sonic scream can have multiple uses. Such as knocking her opponent away with it, including it in at least one of her combos(like Superman's D1 heat vision and Zod using super breath in one of his combos), using it to reflect projectiles back at her opponent etc.

I heard that the first wave of DLC with the season pass was all NRS's decisions and the second wave of DLC was gonna be up to fans hence why there was no season pass. I agree though; they can make Black Canary very well implemented, she was trained by freakin' Wildcat who was an expert in multiple martial arts. So I don't understand the whole argument with her and Batgirl, or that Zatanna took too many of her moves. Although she did focus a lot on kicks she was also a versatile fighter and people underestimate the potential of her sonic scream, although with the projectiles it would make more sense for the to be destroyed or something rather than be reflected.

They stole spots from at least a dozen characters I can name off the top of my head that I personally think were more deserving.

I can name characters who stole spots from more deserving characters in the Vanilla version of this game:

Killer Frost: Captain Cold or Mister Freeze
Sinsestro: Atrotious
Harley Quinn: Poison Ivy
Lex Luthor: Darkseid (He should have at least been in the vanilla.

I have no real problems with the hero side, I don't care for hawkgirl but she does add to the game with her design and gameplay, weapons ect.

 

[KCJ506]

Killer Frost: Captain Cold or Mister Freeze
Sinsestro: Atrotious
Harley Quinn: Poison Ivy
Lex Luthor: Darkseid (He should have at least been in the vanilla.

I have to disagree regarding Sinestro and Lex Luthor. They're Green Lantern's and Superman's respective arch nemeses. And I think it's best that Darkseid is he's saved for the sequel. He's such a serious threat that he would have overshadowed anyone else in the game's story. The focus was on the conflict between Superman's regime and the Earth 1 heroes. Throwing Darkseid in there would have immediately taken away from that. Darkseid is either the primary villain or you leave him out, period.

 

[Red Hood]

I see what you mean about Sinestro, I'm just thinking about this from a fighting game perspective; I just think Darkseid was a more interesting character and better moves than Lex, I wasn't trying to say one character was more important to the other but in terms of more interesting characters Atrocious does the same as Sinestro except he uses blood and necromancy. Lex is hardly played as in this game, especially since his trait is not that good, I mean 1 point of Super armor compared to Doomsday's 20 seconds. But yes story wise he is essential. I don't think Sinestro played too big a part in the story, plus we already had Yellow Lantern Hal.

 

[Zero-Shift]

Killer Frost: Captain Cold or Mister Freeze
Sinsestro: Atrotious
Harley Quinn: Poison Ivy
Lex Luthor: Darkseid (He should have at least been in the vanilla.

I have no real problems with the hero side, I don't care for hawkgirl but she does add to the game with her design and gameplay, weapons ect.

Lex and Sinestro absolutely deserved spots. They're among the most prolific villains in the DCU so they were rightfully included just on principle. Only way you could exclude arch enemies is if they never fight on their own. For example Dr. Sivana. I do agree with Harley and Frost though. Harley should have been Black Manta. Firestorm isn't in the game so Frost should have absolutely been Captain Cold. That way all the founding Justice League members had their arch enemies.

Darkseid would have been a poor launch character for story reasons but since DLC seems outside the game's own story I think he would make excellent DLC material, especially since he already has an in-game model to work with. Just be sure Michael Ironside voices him if possible.