Match-up Discussion Martian Manhunter Match Up Discussion

[Tony at Home]

As Lex, since I started ending all my setups with an u3--close mine--level 1 shields (puts MMH full-screen away, and a mine at my feet), MMH matches have not been giving me too much trouble.

Then again, I've won a bit too many matches because the MMH player didn't know overhead tele is full-combo punishable when shields are up. As the character develops I might not get away with that as much.

Feels 5-5.... Anyone else have any thoughts on Lex v MMH?

 

[Espio]

From what I gathered last night using him, he is going to shut down my main badly. HG players are gonna have to really study this match-up.

Check this out for a set in the match up, maybe this will help .

http://www.twitch.tv/egpwonderchef/b/444663263

1:04:23 starting point.

 

[rev0lver]

I think it's pretty even atm. I've been playing REO a ton over the past week so we're still developing counter-strategies and such. Lex/MMH setups make a lot of stalemates with each other. MMH outzones him but Lex trait does a lot of good.

I wouldn't end with an u3~close mine. All it's good for is beating a teleport. And he can just wakeup with the ground blast thing and prevent you from traiting and start zoning you out.

gishtezashqip7797 what does Rayo think about the MU

 

[AK Stormthegates]

I feel like superman is 5-5. Traited d1 stops alot of f23 pressure, bf3 on wakeup stops for box dash shennanigans, and MMH's zoning game does VERY well against supes in my experience with the matchup.

 

[Treadmill]

What's specifically giving you trouble?

I've played it a few times with one of my friends, the matches seemed close, but I fight their Doomsday a lot so I dunno :/.

I'm no expert on the match up by any means though.

If the doomsday does it right they are alternating between using mb shoulder and them trait after knockdowns so he is always in your face with tons of armor. You can't zone because of trait and mb shoulder. Set ups don't work for the same reason. I can't get damage because of his trait. I can't find consistent way to keep him from activating trait whatsoever. If I pushblock I get a mb shoulder for my troubles or a trait up.

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[Espio]

If the doomsday does it right they are alternating between using mb shoulder and them trait after knockdowns so he is always in your face with tons of armor. You can't zone because of trait and mb shoulder. Set ups don't work for the same reason. I can't get damage because of his trait. I can't find consistent way to keep him from activating trait whatsoever. If I pushblock I get a mb shoulder for my troubles or a trait up.

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I should preface this by saying I don't have a whole lot of match up experience versus Doomsday, but some of my thoughts so far:


I actually fight Doomsday the same way with MMH as I do with Hawkgirl, a lot of spacing/moving in and out alongside pressuring him before he can get his stuff started on you. I usually use MB back 3 to blow up pressure, never really use meter for pushblock because it's not particularly good versus Doomsday and of course against Doomsday's trait MB back 3 doesn't work, but it can be used to check his other options like venom and of course supernova plus jump ins for decent damage.

For trait, try to find strings, pokes etc that recover quickly because from what I understand of his trait it reduces hitstun, but there is still hitstun that he suffers from moves. Other possible options are to try to wait it out, but of course he gets in rather quickly so that's not necessarily the best thing you can do.

Martian Manhunter's style of zoning doesn't seem to be particularly effective against grapplers and armor heavy characters so he has to play more footsie oriented and I think trait to outrange Doomsday can be a huge help offensively and defensively to compensate for zoning being limited

MB pillar can blow up Supernova if you read your opponent's going to do a supernova and you're unsure if they're going to MB or not and you can do a teleport combo, which will at the very least discourage it.

Standing 3 blows up jump ins particularly with trait activated. I need to use it more versus Doomsday, but I feel like it would be really good for checking body splash jump ins, especially with J'onn has his trait activated.

J'onn probably does lose to him though. I'd like to play the match up a lot more with Martian Manhunter, I think there' a lot of counters that need to be looked into for him.

 

[Treadmill]

I've played this match a lot offline. Using trait to out reach him sounds great on paper but if he had any meter its irrelevant. Mb b3 does help from time to time but it's totally yolo. Trying to get snything on screen to keep him from using trait often times just results in a mb shoulder and you are completely screwed all over again. Dd using trait to build meter them using meter to buy time for trait is really hard to deal with. It seems like he has armor constantly and all it takes is a random shoulder cross up splash or supernova while you try any move and you have no way of getting him off you.

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[AK Stormthegates]

What are people's thoughts on the zatanna matchup so far?

 

[Espio]

What are people's thoughts on the zatanna matchup so far?

Seems to be very patient, footsie based battle as they both cannot really zone each other much although Martian Manhunter seems to have superior range even without trait activated. MB pillars seem to be able to blow up her teleports and levitate well. His down 1 outranges her stubby one pretty handily. Other than that it's too early to say much else for me.

I'm interested to see how this match up develops over the next couple months. It will probably be one of his more fun, interesting match ups.

I feel like superman is 5-5. Traited d1 stops alot of f23 pressure, bf3 on wakeup stops for box dash shennanigans, and MMH's zoning game does VERY well against supes in my experience with the matchup.

I agree Martian Manhunter does well versus him, but I don't have much experience personally versus Supes with him as of yet although I've been able to keep up with the Superman players I have played. I need to work on zoning him better.

Do you happen to have any footage from any of the Atlanta scene running this match up?

 

[AK Stormthegates]

Seems to be very patient, footsie based battle as they both cannot really zone each other much although Martian Manhunter seems to have superior range even without trait activated. MB pillars seem to be able to blow up her teleports and levitate well. His down 1 outranges her stubby one pretty handily. Other than that it's too early to say much else for me.

I'm interested to see how this match up develops over the next couple months. It will probably be one of his more fun, interesting match ups.





I agree Martian Manhunter does well versus him, but I don't have much experience personally versus Supes with him as of yet although I've been able to keep up with the Superman players I have played. I need to work on zoning him better.

Do you happen to have any footage from any of the Atlanta scene running this match up?

Currently no but I'll try to get some this Friday when we do the next gathering.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

Anyone been able to play Black Adam? I only played one and I felt completely lost in the matchup. Any advice?

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Maybe I just suck but I'm having a real tough time with HG. Maybe lack of experience but it seems like he has all the tools but I can't seem to put it together

 

[Espio]

Maybe I just suck but I'm having a real tough time with HG. Maybe lack of experience but it seems like he has all the tools but I can't seem to put it together

What specifically are you struggling with?


I actually think Hawkgirl does very well against him despite on paper it being considered a pretty straight forward win. I've been playing the match up often from both sides the last couple weeks and studying the holes in Martian Manhunter's game versus her and vice versa.

It actually might be 5-5 (it seems that way the more I play it and look at how the matches play out), they both seem to have huge potential to frustrate each other and I think Hawkgirl beats him up close too for a variety of reasons including her being safer on her mix ups, more reliable frame advantage off her strings (without having gaps in her strings that can be blown up for full combo like J'onn).

She can wing evade 2 out of 1,1,2 and she easily blows up 2,2, back 3 on reaction with her 6 frame down 1 and she has a 6 frame jab too for that.

Martian Manhunter limits flight and movement somewhat with teleport and MB pillars. His trait can be annoying for her as can orb set ups.

However, MB pillars to check her means you'll have less meter when she gets in past your zoning to pushblock or armor out etc.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

What specifically are you struggling with?


I actually think Hawkgirl does very well against him despite on paper it being considered a pretty straight forward win. I've been playing the match up often from both sides the last couple weeks and studying the holes in Martian Manhunter's game versus her and vice versa.

It actually might be 5-5 (it seems that way the more I play it and look at how the matches play out), they both seem to have huge potential to frustrate each other and I think Hawkgirl beats him up close too for a variety of reasons including her being safer on her mix ups, more reliable frame advantage off her strings (without having gaps in her strings that can be blown up for full combo like J'onn).

She can wing evade 2 out of 1,1,2 and she easily blows up 2,2, back 3 on reaction with her 6 frame down 1 and she has a 6 frame jab too for that.

Martian Manhunter limits flight and movement somewhat with teleport and MB pillars. His trait can be annoying for her as can orb set ups.

However, MB pillars to check her means you'll have less meter when she gets in past your zoning to pushblock or armor out etc.

Thanks man! Some good info.

I also really don't like the cat woman MU

 

[Tiger Wong]

Any thoughts on Aquaman vs MMH?

Played a session a while ago with an aquaman player and here's what I've experienced.

- zoning vs trident is a no-no. It's just plain activates faster than anything MMH tries from that range AND it goes underneath the ground so it beats up teleport.
- close range, AM's back 1 is too quick for him and a great check after a overhead teleport.
- MMH can do him pretty well with his oki setups. AM doesn't have much to answer with as wakeup as his moves don't give him mobility. We can set up almost anything.
- AM's MB B3 is a godsend for him if they want to burn the meter.

 

[dribirut]

I have good mu experience vs : flash, batman, nw, superman, aquaman, gl, bladam, killerfrost, dd, and solomon and the only one that feels like it could possiby be a bad mu is flash.. everyone else feels like winning or at worst 5-5

 

[Jdizzle31]

I was playing a doomsday yesterday and found that i can stop his unblockable with mmh's meteors. On reaction I was stopping him from leaving the screen but it didn't seem to work at full screen. I will take it to the lab later today.

 

[dribirut]

I was playing a doomsday yesterday and found that i can stop his unblockable with mmh's meteors. On reaction I was stopping him from leaving the screen but it didn't seem to work at full screen. I will take it to the lab later today.

nice!.I did that too but not on reaction. so people can we plz start talking mu. this place is deaaad. IMO only flash seems like a possible bad mu. everyone else seems even at worst

 

[Espio]

nice!.I did that too but not on reaction. so people can we plz start talking mu. this place is deaaad. IMO only flash seems like a possible bad mu. everyone else seems even at worst

It's quieter than most match up thread discussions, but at least for me there are very few match ups I get enough to feel confident enough in commenting on at length because I have not played a huge variety of the cast. A couple of people made posts about specific match ups that didn't get addressed so that would be a good place to start so we can all start bouncing ideas and strats off each other.

So far I think Doomsday and Nightwing might be losing match ups around 4-6, while I think he goes 5-5 with Superman and Green Lantern.

Flash I was actually on the fence about and I'd need a lot more experience, but he seems to be able to avoid orbs and zoning on reaction with vibrate and his good dash/get in tools. It's hard to say, I've only fought one Flash in a couple games with him.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

I'm actually not having alot of trouble with the GL matchup. One of my training partners is a very solid GL player. He really can't do much against orb setups other than Might which gets blown up if you just bait it out and I feel its REALLY hard for him to jump in this matchup because of teleport punch. It feels like a 6-4 MMH imo.

Also the more I play against DD the less trouble I have with it. He shuts down your zoning really hard but you can literally run his trait out with the amount of mobility MMH has. He is another character that has trouble with oki orb setups.

I haven't been able to play much against Flash so I really can't give input on it. However I feel like he is one of the characters where you have to sacrifice orb oki in place of high damage combos and putting him fullscreen to get extra chip in. It does seem really rough.

Nightwing sucks. Fuck him I just go secondary. It's not impossible by any means its just really annoying and I feel its just better to take the win and move on.

I'm trying to think up a way to put some casuals up on the video thread I just need to find the best way for me to record them. Ill try my hardest though. Need to keep these boards active this character has alot of dirt I don't people understand yet.

 

[dribirut]

hmm weird I've been hearing a lot of people say they have problems vs nw but I've played quite a few decent ones and havnrt had any problems

 

[Zero-Shift]

Only match-up I currently feel comfortable commenting on is Green Lantern and I think it's an advantageous match-up for MMH. How advantageous remains to be seen but it's at least 6-4.

GL has trouble against good zoning thanks to his crappy mobility. The only way he can close fast is turbine which is risky as hell. MB orbs shut that down completely. His other option is inching forward with air Oa Rockets which are just begging to be hit with a teleport uppercut. Basically if you get Lantern full screen you're forcing him to slowly run a gauntlet just to get to his sweet spot where B1 and Lift are his ideal options and all it takes is one combo ending in B1,3 or Push to force that gauntlet again. Hell, if he uses minigun for safety he risks putting himself back in that situation.

Up close it feels more even so long as you don't really jump. I need to test it but I hear MMH's F2 low crushes. If true this could clinch it for MMH since it would beat GL's best footsie tool and combo starter.

Beyond GL I only really have hunches and first impressions.

 

[Owerbart]

How do you guys feel the Raven MU?

 

[Zero-Shift]

Just tested F2 against Green Lantern's B1 in practice. It totally beats that low starter most of the time. It traded sometimes if I did the F2 late. Most of the time F2 wins though. Also, I was mistaken about orbs shutting down turbine completely. They can be flown over if used at the jump's apex but turbine is still a risky way to approach, not to mention if it's done full screen you can pretty easily react to it with MB Pillar or Tele-uppercut for a quick combo.

I need to try this in actual matches today but for now I'll do a little theory fighting. Now, B1 is a 9f low starter so you're not going to realistically react to it, but it's easy enough to anticipate because what else are GLs going to do at that distance? Make a good read and you get and easy 20-24%. Say they do noting and F2 whiffs, you can go into the D3 part and cancel into orb shenanigans on block o wake-up depending on whether it hits. All you really have to worry about is Lift and being wary of/baiting that is a pretty universal strategy in this game. I think MMH can totally hang with if not best GL up close.

This just has to be a good match-up for MMH. His zoning is strong enough to effectively keep GL out of his desired range. Stay on the ground and you effectively shut down GL's best footsie options it seems. I'm going to try applying this in future matches, and see if it holds water.

 

[dribirut]

so ive been getting a looot more mu experience against a looot of good players and i still havnt found a bad mu for him.. not bladam, superman, aquaman, killerfrost, batman, or wonderwoman.
this character is scary good.. imo easily top 7 probably top 5