NLBC Spooky Stream Drama

[G4S Silent Jay]

Yeah, but a lot of Zero teams are like that and Chris G still takes out more than his fair share. Just something about Flux's team, I don't know what it is, but it sits as a literal breaker for Chris's team. As far as Sanford goes, if he had a decent Rog I'd be like "eh, ok." He didn't.

Spooky's set up I saw once, and its monsterous.

Ah, I see the point then. I don't watch enough AE to say for certain on anything.

And I think it's also Flux personally playing against Chris constantly. When I was still really into Marvel and they both still went to the Break I'd watch those two play each other 2+x a week in tournament. So I think Flux manages to play against ChrisG better than most other Zero teams simply from playing the MU all the damn time.

And yeah, I can see why he'd be pissed then (never been to NextLevel either so I have no idea what getting his set-up in there is like).

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Yeah, clearly theres going to be a rift between the people that feel that way and the people that have the opposite opinion. I hope everyone realizes that it's a ecosystem and everyone has to do their thing and we get back to playing some honest matches.

Do you think this would be as much of an issue as it is if the players doing it at least put on a good show about it?
Like, even playing characters or teams out of their norm, if they could at least do a good job of hiding it, don't you think it would be at the very least less of an issue?

Having only played on stream a few times and gotten blown up (in-match and especially by YT viewers and stream monsters) from not being able to play with tournament nerves. But I have spent way more of my time watching streams and when top players pick some out of the norm character choices, at can at least do a somewhat decent job, the stream gets so hype about it. So wouldn't that hype from viewers be a good thing form a TO/Streamer/Sponsor stand-point?

 

[Vocket]

uhh i think it kills the scene even more when streamers & sponsors are dictating what players can and can't do... be honest here, these guys were playing that game out.... they were having fun.... them playing different characters at this weekly was more interesting than what normally would have happened... spooky raging into 'who fucking cares' hurts the scene more than anything that chris g/sanford did tonight

Fighting games will never be taken seriously as a competitive sport, or as valuable entertainment if people don't give enough of a shit to at least play the game they signed up for. The spectators, the organizers, and the players are all part of the experience and if one them fucks up then whole experience is fucked.

Spooky had the the right and the power to put what he considered a disgraceful exhibition because it would be an insult to the spectators and of course a big insult to the TO's. Playing on the big stage should be an accomplishment, not a chance to dick around, especially when there is money on the line.

 

[c_brandon]

Fighting games will never be taken seriously as a competitive sport, or as valuable entertainment if people don't give enough of a shit to at least play the game they signed up for. The spectators, the organizers, and the players are all part of the experience and if one them fucks up then whole experience is fucked.

Spooky had the the right and the power to put what he considered a disgraceful exhibition because it would be an insult to the spectators and of course a big insult to the TO's. Playing on the big stage should be an accomplishment, not a chance to dick around, especially when there is money on the line.

this was a weekly guy.... the equivalent to spring training baseball or preseason football or something... COME ON USE YOUR HEAD

 

[Danger317]

I'm glad spooky is putting his foot down on collusion, but on the other hand I wanted to see Yang play LOL. fuck man

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Fighting games will never be taken seriously as a competitive sport, or as valuable entertainment if people don't give enough of a shit to at least play the game they signed up for. The spectators, the organizers, and the players are all part of the experience and if one them fucks up then whole experience is fucked.

Spooky had the the right and the power to put what he considered a disgraceful exhibition because it would be an insult to the spectators and of course a big insult to the TO's. Playing on the big stage should be an accomplishment, not a chance to dick around, especially when there is money on the line.

I think this has a lot to do with the double-edged sword of having top players at your local weekly.

Purely from a player stand point, while it's amazing to have them there because you can play against some of the very best and get better by playing them and to see if you can beat them. There's also the downside of knowing for a lot of them, this is just practice or a fun way to try out some shit that they'd never pull at a major, and know that you might not do well, while still taking it seriously.

Now for the viewer perspective, these are the guys you wanna see play most of the time, but you also wanna see them playing at their highest level because that's why you enjoy watching them. Which gets hindered when they don't take it as seriously as viewers would like.

And then from the TO/Streamer/Sponsor perspective, players not taking it seriously seems to give them the feeling of "If they're not even gonna take this seriously, why the hell should I/we even bother?".


I think it's that rift that causes a lot of issues.

Now, with locals, I think this is a bit extreme because, at the end of the day, it's still just a local, and aside from a few such as WNF and NLCB (sorry of there are more people take seriously, I just can;t remember them right now), not too many people even care.

I think this is a rule that should be more enforced at Regionals/Majors, where there should be a more clearly defined outline for it to avoid issues with mistakes, and then weeklies/locals go about their normal business.

Just my $0.02 on that right now, but always an open mind.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Theres a large difference between secondaries, secret characters, experimentation, and colluding with a character.
The idea that Chris G and Sanford counterpicked each other makes complete logical sense tbh

... that is, if either player had been known to play those characters.
Maybe Chris and Sanford did this on purpose to get a reaction out of Spooky.
Both had secret characters? Both legitimately counterpicked?
Who knows, but I think Spooky (albeit a bit too angry) did the right thing in the end.

Colluding seems pretty hard to spot, especially if both suspects are using their mains.

The awards for winning a tourney are used how the winner wants them to be used. Perfectly fine.
It becomes wrong when the tourneys result is fixed though.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Props to Sp00ky

 

[Vocket]

this was a weekly guy.... the equivalent to spring training baseball or preseason football or something... COME ON USE YOUR HEAD

I think this is a rule that should be more enforced at Regionals/Majors, where there should be a more clearly defined outline for it to avoid issues with mistakes, and then weeklies/locals go about their normal business.

Even if its a weekly, it still takes time to set it up, money for travel, and patience to deal with all sorts of headaches that occur from unexpected events. I am not 100% sure if collusion occurred, but that would insult me if I ever played in a tournament where the players did that. I trust Spooky in his judgement, seeing as he has hosted many tournaments, and it is easy too see when somebody is sandbagging, especially when it's with people you know.

Still, the punishment they received was minor, especially since they could have been banned or kicked out. This shit is way too common, and come on it is not hard to put on a show for the stream monsters. They are playing a game that they enjoy and if nothing more, they can at least practice for a bigger tournament by playing seriously.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

well its clear that you were the one that got the gears turning in spookys head.... if you had just said "Sanford is picking Balrog, i've never seen him do this.... etc. etc."... the outcome would have been completely different ... instead you spazz out with the AHHHH THESE GUYS ARE LAUGHING THIS IS COLLUSION AHHHH.... you set spooky off

you have no idea what you're talking about, throughout this entire thread. not one iota. this has been an issue for a long, long, long time. soul calibur was banned from EVO for 4 years because of pot splitting/collusion that occurred in the grand finals of soul calibur 2. no one likes to watch grand finals that are two players fucking around because they've already decided to split the plot, and this IS what happened, anyone saying "HE WAS GOING FOR THE COUNTERPICK" is a fucking idiot, look up on youtube any of the dozens of matches of chris vs sanford, neither of them have ever or will ever need to pick anything else than their main shit to play each other. it was spooky's stream; it was already midnight, people were tired and ready to leave and they still had Marvel to run, everyone pretty much KNEW that they were going to split the pot before they even sat down to play, so they should've just tied for first and taken their money rather than sit down and try to run a joke grand finals with alt characters in a set that could've potentially gone for 10 matches. ain't nobody got time for that. it's spooky's stream and if you don't agree with his choice, unfollow him and don't support NLBC. otherwise, be a good stream monster and scroll your Kappas like a gentleman.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Theres a large difference between secondaries, secret characters, experimentation, and colluding with a character.
The idea that Chris G and Sanford counterpicked each other makes complete logical sense tbh

... that is, if either player had been known to play those characters.
Maybe Chris and Sanford did this on purpose to get a reaction out of Spooky.
Both had secret characters? Both legitimately counterpicked?
Who knows, but I think Spooky (albeit a bit too angry) did the right thing in the end.

Colluding seems pretty hard to spot, especially if both suspects are using their mains.

The awards for winning a tourney are used how the winner wants them to be used. Perfectly fine.
It becomes wrong when the tourneys result is fixed though.

Well, in this particular case, unless I'm mistaken, ChrisG has actually picked Yang on multiple occasions when playing AE. So it wouldn't have been a first for him, and Sanford would have known Chris would possibly try to go to Yang.

 

[BrokenAngels00]

E they can at least practice for a bigger tournament by playing seriously.

Where? They go to weeklies to practice. That's where they get their practice for tourneys in.

 

[BrokenAngels00]

, anyone saying "HE WAS GOING FOR THE COUNTERPICK" is a fucking idiot

On Sanford's stream he said he's good with Rog, that's the only thing we really have to base it off of.

Well, in this particular case, unless I'm mistaken, ChrisG has actually picked Yang on multiple occasions when playing AE. So it wouldn't have been a first for him, and Sanford would have known Chris would possibly try to go to Yang.

Chris G.'s alts are Evil Ryu and Yang. And Sanford picked Rog after Chris G. already locked in Yang.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

On Sanford's stream he said he's good with Rog, that's the only thing we really have to base it off of

that's not even remotely the point; i'm sure both chris and sanford could random select and do "good" with whatever character they land on. it was a mockery and a waste of time and spooky didn't want to put up with it, so he didn't. anything outside of that is erroneous.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Even if its a weekly, it still takes time to set it up, money for travel, and patience to deal with all sorts of headaches that occur from unexpected events. I am not 100% sure if collusion occurred, but that would insult me if I ever played in a tournament where the players did that. I trust Spooky in his judgement, seeing as he has hosted many tournaments, and it is easy too see when somebody is sandbagging, especially when it's with people you know.

Still, the punishment they received was minor, especially since they could have been banned or kicked out. This shit is way too common, and come on it is not hard to put on a show for the stream monsters. They are playing a game that they enjoy and if nothing more, they can at least practice for a bigger tournament by playing seriously.

I'm not trying to trash on weeklies, weeklies are a big deal to me since that's all I can get to and I dunno, I've always gone into them going "Well, time to put my $10 into ChrisG's wallet to play some Mahvel. But I'm gonna do my damn best to not go 0-2 and out this time!" (only game I've legit competed in thusfar).

But to be honest, as long as I didn't lose while they were doing it to me, I don't think I'd personally take offense. But I do understand trusting Spooky's judgment, but then there's also anger getting in the way of seeing both sides of things.

But as far as them getting banned or kicked out:

He can't kick them out of the tournament. It's next level's tournament, he just streams it.

But that's also the point I tried to make earlier. I actually don;t think anyone would make a deal of it if the players would at least put on a good show while they did (although with Marvel top-player matches have gotten so boring I actually start hoping for troll/joke/random teams at times). But where better to practice your new stuff than at a weekly event before taking ti somewhere where even more money is on the line and travel expenses are way higher.

 

[Master Chibi]

Is this what it's come to?

You get a literal blessing of having a tournament EVERY WEEK at a fantastic venue, thousands of people tune in to watch you, people pay just to be in the same tournament at you, and NOW you want to continue acting like a child?

Vic is a grown man. This stream is his livelihood. Rules have been established and he's following them.

Honestly colluding is 100% unsportmans-like conduct. You have all damn day to play casuals but if you're messing around during a competition like that the only one losing out is you. Why would even bother entering the tournament? That's like watching the finals of the Stanley Cup, after an entire season of the team busting their ass to get there, and bam out of nowhere the team pulls out a bunch of golf clubs because "LOL IM HAVIN FUN".

Give me a break. If this weeds out folks who have specifically complained that the scene isn't being taken seriously / bringing in more money and yet continue to be part of the problem, well then good riddance. Forget the 'putting on a show' nonsense, you don't have to put on a show for anyone, but grow some balls and take yourself seriously. Why would you be giving anything less than 100% when you compete? There isn't ONE reason you shouldn't.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Is this what it's come to?

You get a literal blessing of having a tournament EVERY WEEK at a fantastic venue, thousands of people tune in to watch you, people pay just to be in the same tournament at you, and NOW you want to continue acting like a child?

Vic is a grown man. This stream is his livelihood. Rules have been established and he's following them.

Honestly colluding is 100% unsportmans-like conduct. You have all damn day to play casuals but if you're messing around during a competition like that the only one losing out is you. Why would even bother entering the tournament? That's like watching the finals of the Stanley Cup, after an entire season of the team busting their ass to get there, and bam out of nowhere the team pulls out a bunch of golf clubs because "LOL IM HAVIN FUN".

Give me a break. If this weeds out folks who have specifically complained that the scene isn't being taken seriously / bringing in more money and yet continue to be part of the problem, well then good riddance. Forget the 'putting on a show' nonsense, you don't have to put on a show for anyone, but grow some balls and take yourself seriously. Why would you be giving anything less than 100% when you compete? There isn't ONE reason you shouldn't.

To be fair, the Stanley Cup is more like if someone pulled a joke/troll character/team out at EVO grand finals. Hell, Play-Off hockey is more of a Major in the comparison. A local is more like just another game for the pros. And you ALWAYS see second/third string stuff in an average game.
Hell, I've gone to Devils games where Marty wasn't starting.... Sure, I wanna see Marty since I paid to go there (which is even more than watching a free stream), but I've gotta to some extent respect the coaches/managers/teams' decisions on what they wanna do.

And a causal is far from a tournament setting, even in the same venue. I can play a few hours of casuals and be just fine, then sit me down in tournament and the whole vibe and feeling is different and I, myself, tend to forget basic fundamentals of a game that I played religiously to get to a point that I convinced my low-self-esteem it'd be a good idea to go to any tournament. Now while I know these are people who don't have the same level of tournament nerves as I do. But you can't honestly say that it's not still there and that a casual setting is different from competitive play and that playing casuals will get someone truly ready for doing something in a tournament setting.

Hell, even watching pros play in a casual setting is totally different from when you see them play in a tournament, and that's because the mind-set will never be the same.

 

[GrundyFox]

Big props to spooky, it was a healthy injection of integrity that the FGC desperately needs.

Very well done.

 

[Juggs]

It's Spooky's stream.

He didn't want collusion being displayed on his stream.

He kicked them off his stream.

They played off stream.

So why is this a big deal? People have colluded before and will continue to collude unless something is done about it. Neither player was technically punished, they just weren't allowed to play on stream. Which they shouldn't even care because they weren't playing serious anyway. It's more serious at big majors where people spend a lot of money to travel to and get off work and everything for. Collusion at a weekly is still not cool, but stop acting like Spooky is some kind of Nazi for not wanting collusion being displayed on his OWN stream.

 

[BrokenAngels00]

It's Spooky's stream.

He didn't want collusion being displayed on his stream.

He kicked them off his stream.

They played off stream.

So why is this a big deal? People have colluded before and will continue to collude unless something is done about it. Neither player was technically punished, they just weren't allowed to play on stream. Which they shouldn't even care because they weren't playing serious anyway. It's more serious at big majors where people spend a lot of money to travel to and get off work and everything for. Collusion at a weekly is still not cool, but stop acting like Spooky is some kind of Nazi for not wanting collusion being displayed on his OWN stream.

The debate is on whether or not there was colluding or not. There's facts and arguments from both sides.

 

[Juggs]

The debate is on whether or not there was colluding or not. There's facts and arguments from both sides.

Well, unless it was obvious, there's not much to argue about. I don't like people assuming there was collusion just because they pick "odd" characters, but again, it was a weekly, not a big deal imo.

 

[c_brandon]

that's not even remotely the point; i'm sure both chris and sanford could random select and do "good" with whatever character they land on. it was a mockery and a waste of time and spooky didn't want to put up with it, so he didn't. anything outside of that is erroneous.

so you're one of these guys saying.....

Chris and San beat everyone and make their way to the GF of a weekly event... since its a weekly with not much on the line, they decide to have some fun and choose characters that they don't normally play... working on some stuff (this would be like if Pig played Sonya in the GF at Battle & Brew or if PL went to Console Combat and broke out Cyrax or Cage).... these 2 guys in the grand finals of a weekly, using some pocket characters.... start playing it out....

and to you, that is a 'mockery & waste of time" ?

everything would have been fine if they just played the game out... it would have been interesting to see... you know what made the whole thing a 'waste of time'? .... when spooky got up and pulled the cord out of the console.... and then went on raging with 'fuck this fuck that'... that was the only waste of time that happened at NLBC

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

It's Spooky's stream.

He didn't want collusion being displayed on his stream.

He kicked them off his stream.

They played off stream.

So why is this a big deal? People have colluded before and will continue to collude unless something is done about it. Neither player was technically punished, they just weren't allowed to play on stream. Which they shouldn't even care because they weren't playing serious anyway. It's more serious at big majors where people spend a lot of money to travel to and get off work and everything for. Collusion at a weekly is still not cool, but stop acting like Spooky is some kind of Nazi for not wanting collusion being displayed on his OWN stream.

I think this is less about any negativity towards Spooky (except maybe that one guy who seems to hate him) and more about if in this situation, which as far as I can tell is one of the first times people have seen an action take against it, if he jumped the gun and that it might not have even been happening.

At least that's what I'm trying to get across here (as well as to get some opinions on the situation of colluding it's self while the topic is at hand).

 

[c_brandon]

I think this is less about any negativity towards Spooky (except maybe that one guy who seems to hate him) and more about if in this situation, which as far as I can tell is one of the first times people have seen an action take against it, if he jumped the gun and that it might not have even been happening.

At least that's what I'm trying to get across here (as well as to get some opinions on the situation of colluding it's self while the topic is at hand).

think of the next time someone is playing a game on spookys stream... whoever it is... they might want to switch characters and after this the thought 'is spooky going to rage out on me if i do this' will cross their mind.... that is the issue here

 

[Juggs]

I think this is less about any negativity towards Spooky (except maybe that one guy who seems to hate him) and more about if in this situation, which as far as I can tell is one of the first times people have seen an action take against it, if he jumped the gun and that it might not have even been happening.

At least that's what I'm trying to get across here (as well as to get some opinions on the situation of colluding it's self while the topic is at hand).

Maybe he did, but they weren't even punished for it. He took them off them stream and they played off stream. Maybe he made assumptions about it since Chris has colluded before (allegedly), and acted prematurely about it. But again, it's not as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. If this was a major or a tournament where a lot of people traveled to, I would understand people being upset about it.