Improving Injustice!

[Juggs]

Lately a lot of people have been complaining about something in regards to Injustice. Some people say Superman or other characters are broken or too good, other people say there's problems with the actual design of the game, and then some people say there needs to be universal gameplay changes.

I'm not here to lecture anyone because I too have complained about the game in some way or another. But, I have gotten tired of all the complaining though as it seems every single topic on TYM these days either starts out as complaining or turns into complaining. And I don't want to complain about the complaining either so I decided to attempt to make a constructive thread on what is needed to improve the game.

Now, I have no illusions that this will somehow be the one thread on TYM that is constructive, or that everyone will post reasonable responses in a constructive manner. But I hope you guys at least try and take this seriously and not just troll like you do in every other thread, lol. I want this thread to try and stay generally positive, if such a thing is even possible.

What I want is your opinion on gameplay elements that you think need to be altered in order to make improvements with this game. I'm not talking about balance changes because those are always all over the place and usually there's 1 decent idea out of 100. So please refrain from posting character specific stuff.

I love Injustice and I'm having fun with it, but think it could be so much better with a few adjustments here and there. I'm not trying to get the game that I want or trying to buff MY characters or anything like that. I just think that this game has so much potential it's missing out on by just barely missing the mark on a few things. I also want to say I'm not a game designer, I'm not a game tester, I'm just a player with my own opinions and can only speak to MY opinions.

With that said, here's my thoughts on what I would improve/change:

Universal Gameplay Changes:

1. Faster walk speed - I think the number one thing that would really improve this game on a fundamental level is universally increasing the walk speed for every character. This would help in more than one area. It would help against zoning by allowing you to simply walk in between projectiles. You can already do this, but the walk speed is so slow that they will have already built so much meter, done some chip damage, and ran out the clock... all while you do nothing but try and advance on them. Another area this would help out is the footsies. Arguably the weakest part of Injustice is the lack of solid footsies. With the walk speed being as slow as it is, and dashes having longer recovery, you don't get very strong footsies in this game. This is also due to jump ins being really powerful, but one of the other reasons jumping is so prevalent is because it's the only way you can get that mid range mobility. Walking inches you across the screen, and dashes jolt you pretty far but have a lot of recovery, so that mid range distance is really only covered by jumping. The walk speed is also one of the reasons why advancing normals are so good in this game (Superman's f23, for example).

2. Another Universal d2 Buff - The original d2 buff was really good and really helped the game a lot. But I think they need to be beefed just a little more to really discourage jumping. Jumping being the first and best option would be okay if you could be punish for a easily readable jump-in attempt. But a lot of the time, you can know for a fact that they're going to jump at you, and still either trade with your anti-air, or flat out lose to their jump-in. The d2 buff helped a lot, but there's still very little risk jumping in since the d2 anti-air (for a lot of characters), just isn't as consistent as I think it ought to be. D2 just needs one more little buff and I think it would be perfect!

3. Starting out with one bar of meter - I recently heard this mentioned by I think Perfect Legend. He made a great point on how you would actually be able to MB B3 at the beginning of a match to catch some people who always try to get a quick first hit if we were to start off with a bar of meter. It would be a whole other level of yomi when you actually can do MB attacks at the start of the match, much like in MK9. It would also increase the pace of the match a bit not having to build that initial first bar of meter.

4. Normalize Interactables! - I really honestly do love interactables and think they're a good addition to this game. They add a lot, but being SO good they also take away a little. I don't want them nerfed so they're not ever used, not at all. I want people to use them all the time, just as much as they do now. But, instead of 15%, maybe only do 10%. Instead of a really big hitbox, make it a medium sized hitbox. Just small "normalizations" to make them not so overbearing. Again, I really want to stress how much I want interactables to stay a big part of Injustice. I just don't want them being the main focus of the match.

There's some more stuff that I would like changed (such as adding more recovery to moves so that they can be punished), but these are the main 4 for me. This thread may have been a terrible idea, but who knows, maybe something good can come out of it!

 

[Rathalos]

Remove respawning interactables.

 

[AYSAMO]

Remove respawning interactables.

or have them appear randomly on either side of the screen instead of always on the right side of the screen on every map.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

Respawning or multi use interactables such as the pig, dumpster, Atlantis wheels, ect. are too much. One time use on everything imo.

I think the walk speed and jumping in this game is great. It's a much more active game than what we are used to, and that doesn't mean it's scrubby like a lot of people assumed out of the gate. This game wants you to be doing something at any given moment; I think slowing it down will make it a lot less fun to play and watch.

I like the idea of starting with one meter, it makes for a more developed meta game right off the bat. I would imagine they played around with this idea during testing though.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I disagree with meter on match start.

As it stands, push blocking your opponent at the start of the match will grant you 1 bar of meter.

Let me clarify. If you can build 1 bar of meter before the first hit. Should you push block your opponent's attack before the first hit of the match, you are granted the first hit of the match.

This will not speed up gameplay, infact - it will dramatically reduce it. He who pushblocks first - wins.

AK Juggs Perfect Legend

Thoughts?

 

[TomlulsBrady]

I really like the walkspeed idea tbh. I think the ground mobility is more of the reason why people have trouble with certain characters zonning like superman rather than the actually projectile its self.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I couldn't agree more with walk speed and starting with a bar of meter. I FREQUENTLY think about how much starting with a bar as GA on a stage like a arkam asylum would help vs those TV's.

Same as GA vs Superman or GL where I am 99% of the time forced to block a f2 or b1....its sooo dumb

 

[godlessmode]

Remove respawning interactables.

Or if they spawn, make them spawn randomly, this crap where an interactable spawns constantly from the 2p or 1p side creates a nonsense advantage based on starting position.

Other Suggestions:
1. Build meter on block. Pushblock is meant to stop block-pressure nonsense, but if you don't have meter and are stuck in block pressure, you're SOL - AND the opponent still builds meter.

2. Alternative to changing walk speed - allow players to block halfway through their forward dash. This still makes dashing punishable, but gives more room for dashing around zoning as a way to close distance faster.

 

[xSMoKEx]

Agree with everything said by Juggs tbh.

 

[Red Venom]

I feel like all characters should be universally be able to dash cancel perhaps pushing the stance change button to do so (giving it some real use) or better yet make the stance change block instead. We can dash cancel our launcher's but the start up is slow so it kinda just leaves you open to punishment. I'm looking mainly for a change in gameplay mechanics that allow you to play footsies in a better kind of way. I want to be able to fake people out with a dash then cancel it so I can bait and punish. Not to mention jumping for certain characters in this game is suicide, Except for the few with air-dashes who can cross you up like nothing while others have to have some sort of set-up to cross up. Even then it's not guaranteed but hey what's a win without risk?

 

[coolwhip]

Movement in general is my biggest issue with Injustice. So yeah, faster walkspeed would be highly beneficial. It just looks/feels wrong when jumping is the best way to move around the screen. Slow walkspeed makes whiff punishing tricky at times, and that in turns leads to a lot of risk free nonsense. There also needs to be a little bit of a recovery after jumping up to reach for interactable. There have been numerous times where my opponent would jump, go for the interactable, I'm able to dodge, and yet he's already recovered and blows me up for attempting to blow him up. A lot of things in this game just feel risk free, which leads to some auto-pilot or random stuff (or maybe it's because most of us still suck).

Jump-ins are way too powerful, and only a handful of characters seem to have really good, consistent anti-air options (and some of those who do, can just throw their anti air move without any sense of timing, and it will have priority over everything. At worst, it will trade with the jump-in. And yeah, I'm talking about Aquaman).

I feel interactables in general are a cool idea, but one that needs a few modifications in terms of execution. For instance, having respawning interactables AND the ability to MB them is just too much. If my opponent has a life lead on Atlantis and if he's got meter (which you almost always do in this game), he can just turtle in the corner. I just can't get anywhere near him or I'm dead. And it's not like I can just bait it once and be done with it, since he can do it multiple times.

I like this game, it's hella fun, but there are some tiny things that are way too aggravating for me to fully enjoy it. With a few tweaks, it really has the potential to be a phenomenal fighting game.

 

[AK Harold]

I have to disagree not because I do not think these ideas are necessarily bad though. I would love to see these ideas exist in a new iteration of the game, but please just stop messing with this game so much. Problem is these things you ask for are for what we want (and percieve to need) now. Learn to play the current game better. If that is not enjoyable, take a break and let everyone else figure out how to deal with it for you maybe.

1. Walk speed - forcing certain characters to commit to jump or dash is part of footsies. Specialize a character and learn to deal with it or pick a character you feel that is better at that part of the game.

2. D2 - Most of the cast that does not have a good d2 deserve to not have one in my opinion. Some have an extraordinary d2 that should be toned down. Everyone should not have aquaman's d2 he needs this with his playstyle. Also, most players so far expect d2 to work on all jump spacings. This in itself would make the game terrible. D2 is a tool for most characters to beat jumps at specific ranges and air to air or respecting jump ins is what most fighting games have. Not a D2 that you use everytime someone jumps. The adversion to jumpin and air game in general from the community is strange to me since I have a lot of experience in other fighting games. Probably the only exception would be 3d but there are some reasons to jump even in those albeit few.

3. That would be interesting, but characters with very strong MB moves would dominate the opening gambit. I like the idea but again I dislike changing core mechanics unless there is a sequal released.

4. Interactables - I wish there were more to make the matches more diverse. The damage is fairly normalized as is with the exception of damage power ups. Lowering the damage would negate setting up interactable resets. Then you would just see people do bnbs without consideration of interact. If they made a new game and expanded the system further I would be very excited, it is a main draw for me to play this game. Maybe make interactable damage red life like in darkstalkers/marvel. So that if it kills it would be worth it, again to integrate that at this stage would make things worse possibly and would rather leave it alone.

Overall, I think supporting the game and playing it out would benefit everyone the most as it would give NRS vested interest in making a new game that would have an overhaul of engine and mechanics.

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

i like respawning corner interactables but then again i use cyborg. they shouldnt do as much damage though obviously
and please remove the double damage glitch when you try to meter burn through interactables with multiple hitboxes. taking a 40 percent unblockable and losing a meter is the dumbest thing ever in a fighting videyogame

 

[Hiltzy85]

4. Interactables - I wish there were more to make the matches more diverse. The damage is fairly normalized as is with the exception of damage power ups.

I hate that characters who get damage buffs have the buff added to interactable damage. Sure, it's situational, but Superman or Bane or Wonder Woman dealing like 30-35% with some of the bigger interactables while buffed is retarded. If grundy decides to go strength chain, that shit is permanent until he decides to change it. At least the other ones wear off.

 

[Tony at Home]

We've still yet to see players who will scale their combos or change them up to keep interactible advantage.

I want to see a player who will follow up their b3 mid combo with the thought: "hey, I may lose 7 percent of damage from the combo, but I might want to instead dash under the launched enemy, and reverse my side so I don't give him/her a free interactible once I'm done"

 

[shaowebb]

My list (without turning this into a character specific mess) is as follows:

• Faster walk speed---- People jump so much because its fast and safer than dashes
• Lower damage on transitions and interactibles---- We can agree that its a bit much in damage. Many feel that transitions are fine and it baffles me...I can MB B3 and its an armored attack that in one hit is an unclashable kill that does ridiculously huge damage...like a third or more of your health and it resets us to fullscreen allowing zoners an advantage. This is a bit much
• No respawning interactibles----self explanatory. They become abusable
• Level the interactible reward for non power types-----There is zero doubt gadget types got shafted here. Interactibles favor power types and they can even MB armor the things to make them even more dangerous. They get unblockable damage, they get to remove the few stage interactibles gadget types can reuse by throwing them and just in general win in their stage options. Level the playing field here because the mobility these tools offer gadget players is punishable and poor
• No unblockable interactions-----self explanatory
• Retool redundant or nigh useless strings into having purposes-----there just seems to be a lot of filler in movesets that either push folks too far away, that have bad frame recovery or startup, or that in general have poor pacing for combos as openers or enders or ...well...or anything. Mess with these to at least make them serviceable for combos. You dont have to buff a character to death, but just make their tools have a purpose if they have strings that have no use what so ever even if its just an option with similar frame data to something else just so it makes folks harder to read on approach with your blocks. It'll keep matches from being so redundant.
• Better Anti Air-----D2 buff was fine, but things are still kind of tough out there in terms of AA. Perhaps other tools may need buffed for this or selective D2 further tweaks. In any case folks are still pretty threatening on jump in this game...that wont change even if they get a better walk to give them another approach.
• Zoning is just too favored------------I have no idea how to really fix this, but so many of the cast become unreliable and the top tier is pretty easy to use since so much of the game favors zoning. Clashes favor zoning, interactibles are used mainly for zoning, the dash system suffers to zoning, and just in general so much of the cast sits in the wings because zoning was made too favorable...it also brings down crowds and dulls excitement which loses the game support at tournies over time. The game pace gets slow and it just wears down over time...many are getting bored and I feel this is probably some of that. It never really turns into the slugfest of MK9 that people hoped to get occasionally.
• Pushblock should be free-------I seriously dont like paying a bar for this. Meter is SO rewarding in this game for armoring b3/f3 and interactibles not to mention for damage on moves. It is nearly NEVER used for defensive purposes and honestly its not worth it as a pushblock is not a guaranteed way to convert and punish offense. It should be free.

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

We've still yet to see players who will scale their combos or change them up to keep interactible advantage.

I want to see a player who will follow up their b3 mid combo with the thought: "hey, I may lose 7 percent of damage from the combo, but I might want to instead dash under the launched enemy, and reverse my side so I don't give him/her a free interactible once I'm done"

play tom brady.

 

[Hiltzy85]

• Pushblock should be free-------I seriously dont like paying a bar for this. Meter is SO rewarding in this game for armoring b3/f3 and interactibles not to mention for damage on moves. It is nearly NEVER used for defensive purposes and honestly its not worth it as a pushblock is not a guaranteed way to convert and punish offense. It should be free.

Free pushblock would be completely retarded. You already said that the game favours zoning. How is every zoning character being able to push block everything they block for free making the game less favourable to zoning. If I work and get in on a zoner, he can then just turtle me forever and pushblock everything. If I finally break his defenses, he can clash me and win because he didn't have to spend any meter on pushblock, and now I'm back at full screen and he's got a life lead and can go back to zoning.

 

[Juggs]

Thanks for the quick responses guys! I have to head out and probably won't be back on until Wednesday, but please keep posting up, loving the points and discussion so far.

 

[kabelfritz]

the simple thing is theres too much talk not enough play on tym. imagine this site with everyone just grinding out their characers and filling the forums with insight. but i guess thats because this game is not as deep in peoples hearts as mk....

 

[Tony at Home]

play tom brady.

He does this? I suppose it would be especially easy with Aquaman who can just flip you over to whatever side he wants mid-combo easily.

I'll take a look at more of Brady's matchups, I think that would excellent be proof that interactibles don't need a nerf, so long as the player takes into account their existence, as Tom does.

 

[coolwhip]

• Pushblock should be free-------I seriously dont like paying a bar for this. Meter is SO rewarding in this game for armoring b3/f3 and interactibles not to mention for damage on moves. It is nearly NEVER used for defensive purposes and honestly its not worth it as a pushblock is not a guaranteed way to convert and punish offense. It should be free.

This essentially kills rushdown. Every time an opponent gets near you, just push block. If an opponent jumps at you, don't even bother to anti air, just push block. If you're a strong zoning character, a free pushblock means every match is in your favor. Just push block and get back to zoning. Your opponent can't even build meter since he's not touching you, while you're building a crap ton. Spending meter for a pushblock makes perfect sense. Your opponent got in on you and he's pressuring you, you want the easy way out? You better be prepared to spend a bar.

Sorry but that suggestion is ridiculous.

 

[MetalPete]

Either make all wake-ups invincible, none of them invincible, or give each character one option that is fully invincible. It would be pretty disheartening to get poked out of a tiger-uppercut.

Take away the Call of Duty size hit-boxes. I would like to be able to jump over projectiles and certain attacks without being hit just because my foot was there a second ago.

Stop moving backwards when blocking. Throwing a special or using an attack should turn on the block animation instead of waiting for the hit to connect.

Make 3/4 screen the new full-screen. I think this would help balance the zoning matches where it take 30 seconds to get to your opponent.

Make trait drains pause during clashes and transitions.

Make the wager system more strategic. If character X uses full meter for a wager and character Y uses 3/4, then the winner should only heal/damage based on the remaining difference. That way I could choose to use my meter to keep you from getting max-health even though you won the wager.

I actually had a list, but can't figure out what the hell I did with it.

 

[Red Venom]

This essentially kills rushdown. Every time an opponent gets near you, just push block. If an opponent jumps at you, don't even bother to anti air, just push block. If you're a strong zoning a character, a free pushblock means every match is your favor. Just push block and get back to zoning. Your opponent can't even build meter since he's not touching you, while you're building a crap ton. Spending meter for a pushblock makes perfect sense. Your opponent got in on you and he's pressuring you, you want the easy way out? You better be prepared to spend a bar.

Sorry but that suggestion is ridiculous.

Atleast make it cost half a meter jeez with Lobo, Bane, and Doomsday meter is everything.

 

[Eagle Eye]

i agree with everything he said. i just think only certain people need a dash buff. i believe only rush down characters need it rather than the zoners. like raven, cyborg ,etc . like can you imagine raven running around the screen like black adam. that would be ridiculous