The Superman Nerf Chronicles

[TJ Casters]

The only that Superman needs nerfing is... Everything. Seriously neuter that ****. So tired of Space Jesus popping up in my Green Lantern comicbooks and saving the collective multiverse... Again. Seriously, literally every other superhero is just there to stall till Supes decides to turn his attention to the threat at hand. Except for Batman who sometimes decides to save the multiverse through the power of deus ex and bad writing. A descendant of Krypton who has the same power set as Supes receives a green ring and has a metricton of willpower and is chosen to inherit the literal embodiment of the god of willpower itself? Trolololo nope nope you're still not as powerful as Supes!!

So you're angry because Superman is a popular comic book character and you would like for him to be neutered? This is not reason to nerf him. I'd say someone is cranky and needs to take a nap and/or eat a snickers.

 

[Error]

If we're going to compare Superman's trait to The Flash's how about we give it the same recovery and prevent Superman from blocking when it's active.

 

[Knoterror]

If we're going to compare Superman's trait to The Flash's how about we give it the same recovery and prevent Superman from blocking when it's active.

Yeah, sounds totally fair. I like that it wouldn't be balanced because Supermans trait doesn't slow down time. Good thinking.

 

[Error]

Yeah, sounds totally fair. I like that it wouldn't be balanced because Supermans trait doesn't slow down time. Good thinking.

Watching Superman play slows down time, dear anti-error. Besides, it breaks armor and increases damage, while Flash's scales damage.

 

[TAS_DASH]

I wouldn't nerf superman, or anyone else, just buff the others. On another note, superman is definitely beatable as he is, but in the nrs community will just nerf their problems away instead of adapting.

making everyone stupid is not a good option. I don't want everyone to be broken. Then this game will have absolutely no fundamentals and the game will be even worse

 

[TAS_DASH]

if f2 was high it would still allow him to do what he does best with it. Whiff punish and use it counter jump aways or blocked strings that have push back. What it won't allow him to do is f2,3 pressure all day. f dash a back dash into another f2, and wait for you to push a button and f2 that whiff. I think that this is fair and now allows thinking rather than I know I can spam f2,3 breath all day. He will still also be very good even if this happens, just not dumb. He also needs to lose his delayed MB eye lasers. If you block and then dash he can MB on reaction to the forward movement. GL can do that, too. It's just bad for fundamentals.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

making everyone stupid is not a good option. I don't want everyone to be broken. Then this game will have absolutely no fundamentals and the game will be even worse

Wait, this game has fundamentals? Also I'm not calling for anybody to be stupid broken. Superman currently isn't even broken. Is the best? Yes for sure and that's okay. It seems the whole nerf train just never ends with this game. First Slade then scorpion (I did agree with the pre hot fix scorpion being op.) Now superman, then in a little bit it will be aqua man and black Adam.

 

[Bildslash]

Pffft... whatever....

 

[TAS_DASH]

Wait, this game has fundamentals? Also I'm not calling for anybody to be stupid broken. Superman currently isn't even broken. Is the best? Yes for sure and that's okay. It seems the whole nerf train just never ends with this game. First Slade then scorpion (I did agree with the pre hot fix scorpion being op.) Now superman, then in a little bit it will be aqua man and black Adam.

yes that's right a lil bit of BA then Aqua and a couple of more characters will begin to balance this game out. If this is done then the lower characters will be able to compete in a much better match up. Reduce the top 7 and everyone else gets better which results in better balance. No need to buff just yet. The top 7 have stupid elements that hurt fundamental play. That's all I want gone. Supes will still be top tier or near top if the 7 top get the stupid things removed.

 

[4x4lo8o]

1. Back-dash if you think he is going to loop the string

2. Press buttons if you think he thinks your going to back-dash

Back dash isn't a universal option. Some characters just get stuck in pressure again if they back dash.

Dash forward isn't the only thing he can do if he thinks you're going to back dash, so 'pressing buttons if you think he thinks your going to back-dash' can get you punished even if you were right and he thought you were going to back dash. The guessing game isn't nearly as simple as you're making it.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

yes that's right a lil bit of BA then Aqua and a couple of more characters will begin to balance this game out. If this is done then the lower characters will be able to compete in a much better match up. Reduce the top 7 and everyone else gets better which results in better balance. No need to buff just yet. The top 7 have stupid elements that hurt fundamental play. That's all I want gone. Supes will still be top tier or near top if the 7 top get the stupid things removed.

Could I ask what are these stupid things that make the "top 7" so good. Please do tell.

 

[TAS_DASH]

Supes - f2,3 breath / delayed MB lasers / OP trait
Aquaman - trait time should be longer / chip damage on trident rush
BA - back dash / regular DK should be more negative
A podcast is coming up soon about this and I will give you the heads up when it's out. But I'm talking about things that are more fundamental issues vs. how good or bad a character is. After that, let the dust settle for awhile and then buff or nerf. Not saying your idea is the worst, as some people would like this game to go that route. I'd more prefer a fundamental route. It's just 2 different solutions for the same problem.

 

[Bildslash]

Back dash isn't a universal option. Some characters just get stuck in pressure again if they back dash.

Dash forward isn't the only thing he can do if he thinks you're going to back dash, so 'pressing buttons if you think he thinks your going to back-dash' can get you punished even if you were right and he thought you were going to back dash. The guessing game isn't nearly as simple as you're making it.

It is in Europe.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

Same question I posed in another thread: If you make F23 high, what other strings does he have that 1. Hit mid and 2. Aren't incredibly slow? The other top tiers have a long reach low starter, a long reach overhead, a get out of jail free card, mechanical bats, good high and low starters, or an insane guessing game where it's safe even on a bad guess.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

Back dash isn't a universal option. Some characters just get stuck in pressure again if they back dash.

Dash forward isn't the only thing he can do if he thinks you're going to back dash, so 'pressing buttons if you think he thinks your going to back-dash' can get you punished even if you were right and he thought you were going to back dash. The guessing game isn't nearly as simple as you're making it.

Tru there are characters that cant backdash the full string but they still have the option of Mb b3/f3 and the other 2

 

[Nutrient]

"Make f2 10 frame start up.

I like this idea it will actually make the scrubs feel better about the superman matchup"

Seems as though you and I think alike

 

[THTB]

*Sees more Superman talk*

Oh. Hmm. Okay.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

All I know is: Superman without Super = S tier. Superman with Super = SSS tier and most players don't even understand why yet.

His Super is an unblockable, unbreakable satellite 2nd trait that hits you when you do any action other than crouching or walking. It can whiff punish anything in the game. But that's not even the best thing about it. The best thing about his Super is that all your options against F23 and all your options against lasers become severely limited until it is used. Jumping and backdashing are no longer safe options if Superman is sitting on full meter. And let's face it, Superman always has Super. And even once he uses it, it doesn't take that much time for him to get full meter again.

A good Superman player will not burn all his meter on MB lasers, MB b3 and wake ups. A good Supes will sacrifice damage and even take damage to ensure that he has super or is 1 bar away from super at all times. That's something KDZ understands that many Superman players still fail to realize: how much stronger Superman's zoning and pressure becomes when he's just sitting on full meter. That's the difference between "Superman" and "15 minutes inside the sun Superman".

People think Superman is #1 in the game now, wait until Superman players get to KDZ's level. No... wait until KDZ actually starts leveling up lol. Don't fool yourselves thinking KDZ has reached his plateau and can't get any better than he is right now.

 

[Knoterror]

Making F2 hit high would cripple the shit out of Superman. He would have next to no footsies whatsoever.

Seriously people. He only has like 4 strings. One is already a fundamentally useless high and B23 can't even combo into MB Breath.

 

[Kiko]

Everyone that says lasers aren't that bad are just thinking frame data and not actual "approaches."


F23 shouldn't be nerfed (it's what makes supes,supes) besides GL has a low just like that only one frame faster.

His laser show (honestly free damage for superman if you are anywhere but up close) dominates matches. As much as you guys want to disagree, let's look at tournies AND casual gameplay if you really want.

The laser show destroys tons of people because of the mind games that go along with it (such as laser mix ups, air lasers, back dashing, f23 punish approaching, jumping attack, cross up jump in, Ice breath to stop you, super breath to push you back to full screen).


It's just the big man in blue has an option for everything

 

[AK Black Preon]

Haven't posted in a couple months due to 2 deaths in the family. (Injustice Related Below)​

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Okay I've been an out of the box Bane Player. In other words a release date Bane main. With that said I had a hard clime fighting a lot of characters for the first month. There have been balances, checks, ect. ect. and even a Buff for Bane with the dash and venom cooldowns. So I know how much "little" changes can effect a character in a huge way. But lets talk Super Man. Many characters have one or two elements of their game that are exploitable and a certain aspect they can't cover (aka) a weakness or at least a weak area. Whether it be their close-up game, full screen game, mid screen game, corner game, ect. With Super Man, I ask any Super Man player what is his "weakness". What is something he has no answer for and isn't good at? And we're discounting specific situations such as "when I don't have trait and this character has their trait". Seeing as how Supes cooldown on trait isn't super slow and it breaks armor. Honestly Super Man is a character that does not have to care about who is picked or the other player's existence. I had even heard some Super Man players say that "His zoning isn't good". And if I give you that then fine, however he has (XX_Hundred) ways to put you back in laser distance, so if you do get in are we going to act and downplay he can't kick you out with the littlest effort? F23 breath with no meterburn or meterburn into combo. Which is what you see a lot of. He doesn't have to care about any other characters options for the most part. Imagine if Killer Frost had Super Man's lasers...​

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I mean remember, we called Scorpion broken for basically one move. Grant it a horribly integrated move but, Super Man has a cavalcade of his good or better than the opponents options toolbox. Honestly I personally can't think of a situation where I'm sitting there going "This super man is so fucked in hypothetical position A". And lets be honest remember back when Scorpion was A-OK to play? Some characters felt like they were staring on HBO's hit series.​

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Oh and did I mention Deathstroke got nerfed for MUCH less.​

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But in closing I'll say this right here. As tournaments go, with money on the line it doesn't matter if the audience is entertained. It doesn't matter how the opponent feels about the strategy. It doesn't matter what anything else has to say or think as long as I give myself the best shot to take the title. Therefore with that said I suggest anyone THAT worked up over it switch their Main to Super Man. I mean at the high level it might as well be called​

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Super Man: Supes Among Super Men​

Featuring: Other DC Characters and Yellow Sub-Zero​

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Maybe I'm an idiot and have rambled for far too long. Well that's me, long winded and probably wrong.​

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[ColdBoreMK23]

Could you imagine if ChrisG mained Superman?



Mind = Blown


Good stuff those PND.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[4x4lo8o]

Same question I posed in another thread: If you make F23 high, what other strings does he have that 1. Hit mid and 2. Aren't incredibly slow? The other top tiers have a long reach low starter, a long reach overhead, a get out of jail free card, mechanical bats, good high and low starters, or an insane guessing game where it's safe even on a bad guess.

I don't know what other decent speed, mid hitting strings he has, but he wouldn't be the only character without any. I know his 2 hits mid and is 10 frames and other characters get by on similar without having an 8 frame advancing special that leads to 45% damage to punish with

 

[Kiko]

The point that people that bring up Superman not having any lows (mix up game) is stupid.

You're right lets give this guy even more reason to destroy everyone else. Besides he does have mix up game, it's just unsafe.

 

[Bildslash]

All I know is: Superman without Super = S tier. Superman with Super = SSS tier and most players don't even understand why yet.

His Super is an unblockable, unbreakable satellite 2nd trait that hits you when you do any action other than crouching or walking. It can whiff punish anything in the game. But that's not even the best thing about it. The best thing about his Super is that all your options against F23 and all your options against lasers become severely limited until it is used. Jumping and backdashing are no longer safe options if Superman is sitting on full meter. And let's face it, Superman always has Super. And even once he uses it, it doesn't take that much time for him to get full meter again.

A good Superman player will not burn all his meter on MB lasers, MB b3 and wake ups. A good Supes will sacrifice damage and even take damage to ensure that he has full meter or is 1 bar away from super at all times. That's something KDZ understands that many Superman players still fail to realize: how much stronger Superman becomes when he's just sitting on full meter. That's the difference between "Superman" and "15 minutes inside the sun Superman".

People think Superman is #1 in the game now, wait until Superman players get to KDZ's level. No... wait until KDZ actually starts leveling up lol. Don't fool yourselves thinking KDZ has reached his plateau and can't get any better than he is right now.

No man, when he has super you're supposed to play smart and don't move so he can hit you with everything else for free. #Kappa