Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl Matchup Discussion

[Tiger Wong]

Btw Tiger Wong, Sinestro's fireball is a mid. It keeps getting bigger the more distance it travels, its duckable close to mid range but around 3/4 or more you cant duck it.
Also you can dash the boulder on reaction (as soon as his hand goes up you dash).

Hm. You're right about the fireball being mid from full screen but it's more because it seems to track more than the size. It goes down the farther from his hand it goes. Not that it really matters.

Dashing the boulder.... hm.... maybe that's how you do it. I've been trying to dash it as soon as I see him move and I dash early and the thing tracks me and hits me. When I'm WW (who I use vs Sinestro) I can double dash on his hand movement and be on his face and not get hit. But HG's dash is so floaty and slow that I can still get tagged with it. Kinda why I think I said, you have to have a perfect dash to get past it. With WW, I can jump and then air dash fast enough to get away from the boulder most times.

But again...... I'll try to dash on reaction.

Maybe.

IDK. I came to terms with this matchup long ago. I don't even fuck with it. I just pick WW. lol. Maybe If I dig MMH's style I'll pick him for Sinestro.

I'm kinda like that vs DS now as well. It's too difficult to get anything going and too easy for DS to keep me out AND he's got 50/50s AND a BS jump-in.

 

[Tiger Wong]

And speaking of BS jump-ins.......

What's everybodys thoughts on the Batman matchup?

I'm leaning towards 5-5. I can't go 6-4 to either side. Batman has some attacks to take her out the air but they only hit at a specific spot so they're not too difficult to plan for and get around. We can even fly around the bats when he sends them (they're not excatly the fastest things in the world) and MC as they go by to hit him as he tries to jump in (because every Batman uses the bats to cover their approach.

But Batman's J2 is the most BS jump-in in the game.

I have stood there blocking when I SWORE that stupid thing was a crossup..... I KNOW there's no other spot for it to crossup..... and the damn thing hits me in the front.
I have stood there holding back when there was NO WAY he could've crossed me up...... and he lands on my back crossing me up.
There's been times where the bastard jumped in with J2 and it looked like he was gonna hit me in the chest with it...... and ended up on the other side of me for a crossup.

It's bullshit. And you combine it with the bats and I don't what the fuck to do for blocking. I wish I could record some of it. It's total BS. You gotta D2 him without the bats, but GOD FORBID you do it late. You're gonna be juggled for an hour because all Batman players know his combos.

I have no answer for his B23. Yeah, if you're quick enough you can jump the bomb. This doesn't really help me. I keep forgetting to try to see if I can fly or WE the damn thing. (Maybe now that I wrote it down, I'll remember to do it). His 223 may be -1 on block but it has holes in it. Lots of Batman players use it after a J2. Here's what you do.......

If you crouch block right after first 2, you can duck the 2nd 2 cleanly and punish him with a D2 or a D1. BUT you have to do it quick enough because you'll hit by the 3 if you're too slow. Or......
If you crouch block right after the 2nd 2 (but not before the 1st 2) you can duck the 3 and punish it with a D1, D2, 3, or sweep.

All of this is moot when you play good Batman players, because after you punish it the 1st time, they'll just do a single 2.

Other Batman players will do 122 after J2. You can punish him with a D1 after the first 2.

Does anybody know if you can punish him after a blocked grapple from mid screen to full screen? What is it on whiff?

 

[Boodendorf]

And speaking of BS jump-ins.......

What's everybodys thoughts on the Batman matchup?

6-4 in Batman's favor, because he can outzone her.

j2 is the least of HG's worries actually, grapple, batarangs, bats are what makes the matchup a pain. It's tough getting on him and once you're in his cqc is even better, but not as annoying.

Batman has so many tools to bring you down fullscreen and half-screen and can cover both air and ground at the same time using j4 and grapple, and if it's successful he can confirm into mb grapple into a long combo that will end into b23 4 and we all know we don't want that.

His parry isn't anything you should worry about either, you can beat it with your usual pressure (we2/3).

Hawkgirl's one of the few characters that has a little surprise against every batman mainers' favorite string: She can reversal mace charge the second hit of b23 (right before the explosion) and punish Batman if he tries to use 4 right after it. Makes the matchup a whole goddamn lot easier once you're used to do that.

Once he has bats out, either you wait patiently and risk getting pressured or do it like me and go for a sweep or a throw. He'll block standing more than 3/4 of the match so you have more chances hitting him with sweep or throw and getting rid of his trait.

Being above him is dangerous because of his anti air batarang/grapple, which can give him a full combo, which is bad for us.

Pressuring him is a good thing, he doesn't have much to get out of HG's pressure, make sure to read the jumps and d2 on reaction.

 

[Tiger Wong]

6-4 in Batman's favor, because he can outzone her.


Hawkgirl's one of the few characters that has a little surprise against every batman mainers' favorite string: She can reversal mace charge the second hit of b23 (right before the explosion) and punish Batman if he tries to use 4 right after it. Makes the matchup a whole goddamn lot easier once you're used to do that.

Really? I gotta practice that. Thx.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Ok. After some practice, you can WE the 3 of Batman's B23. And I like doing that better because going from block to neutral to the back+forward motion isn't as easy as the WE.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

OMG i just played the Raven match up today with Ducky ;____; it was HORRIBLE!
It's an average match up until Raven has her trait on, it's impossible to do something! Sorry but i think that match up is 3-7 WITH TRAIT So i would rate it 6-5-3-5 for Raven

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

The match up chart is falling :c
But love her for life

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Raven is a weird MU, you're trying to stay in a position where she cant lift or Soul crush you and bully her, but once she goes into her trait (which you shouldnt be giving her the room to go into without taking some damage or stuffing it completely) she's in control as long as her pillar game is on point till that shit's done.
Its very winnable imo, I'm pretty sure its just ducky being godlike as opposed to the MU lol.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Raven is a weird MU, you're trying to stay in a position where she cant lift or Soul crush you and bully her, but once she goes into her trait (which you shouldnt be giving her the room to go into without taking some damage or stuffing it completely) she's in control as long as her pillar game is on point till that shit's done.
Its very winnable imo, I'm pretty sure its just ducky being godlike as opposed to the MU lol.

Lol no! Without trait you must be carefull, nothing special, but when she gets her trait on... OMG you are not able to move! I swear it. And yes Ducky is godlike, but idk, Her trait lasts so much and she can just run doing lift until it fills again.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

OMG i just played the Raven match up today with Ducky ;____; it was HORRIBLE!
It's an average match up until Raven has her trait on, it's impossible to do something! Sorry but i think that match up is 3-7 WITH TRAIT So i would rate it 6-5-3-5 for Raven

Ducky as in "Blind Ducky" as in top 16 Evo finisher???

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Ducky as in "Blind Ducky" as in top 16 Evo finisher???

Exactly

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Exactly

I have mad respect for that guy. Not only because of the way he plays his character, but his etiquette and maturity. Gracious winner, gracious loser. IMO, that quality transcends his ability in this game. He's the kinda guy you wanna root for.

Anyway, I don't feel the matchup is too bad either. Once Raven's trait is up it's tough, but you just gotta weather that storm.

 

[Espio]

The only time Raven becomes a problem is when trait is active so your best bet is to get your licks in while she's in her normal form. If you're uncomfortable dealing with her demon mode pillars and etc you could just wait it out, the chip isn't that bad.

Soul crush and lift will whiff while in flight and I like to screw up her wake ups with dive kick while floating around her after a knockdown. The times I win against Raven players is usually from pressuring them and pushing them to the corner as she seems to not deal so well with pressure (just my impressions from playing as her and against her). If you get the momentum and a considerable life lead, it can be pretty hard for Raven to come back.

MB mace toss is great for dealing with her absorb/reflect. You can wing evade out of 2,2 3 and punish for full combo I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).

Without trait it would probably be straight up 5-5 or maybe better, but due to trait it's more like 6-4 Raven's advantage although that's just my take.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I have mad respect for that guy. Not only because of the way he plays his character, but his etiquette and maturity. Gracious winner, gracious loser. IMO, that quality transcends his ability in this game. He's the kinda guy you wanna root for.

Anyway, I don't feel the matchup is too bad either. Once Raven's trait is up it's tough, but you just gotta weather that storm.

Yes i thought the same! But that B2~3~trait ender is horrible, it leaves us at full screen and that mf'er with trait ;_; lol! But i feel like raven has no problem letting her away while her trait fills! In my experience with Ducky, it was horrible, but i would like to discuss this match up more too.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

The only time Raven becomes a problem is when trait is active so your best bet is to get your licks in while she's in her normal form. If you're uncomfortable dealing with her demon mode pillars and etc you could just wait it out, the chip isn't that bad.

Soul crush and lift will whiff while in flight and I like to screw up her wake ups with dive kick while floating around her after a knockdown. The times I win against Raven players is usually from pressuring them and pushing them to the corner as she seems to not deal so well with pressure (just my impressions from playing as her and against her). If you get the momentum and a considerable life lead, it can be pretty hard for Raven to come back.

MB mace toss is great for dealing with her absorb/reflect. You can wing evade out of 2,2 3 and punish for full combo I believe (correct me if I'm wrong).

Without trait it would probably be straight up 5-5 or maybe better, but due to trait it's more like 6-4 Raven's advantage although that's just my take.

I will try this! But idk how Ducky did that her trait filled pretty fast while i was trying to get in! Btw.. I guess i gotta work on that! Maybe 5-5 with trait 3-7 ?

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

I will try this! But idk how Ducky did that her trait filled pretty fast while i was trying to get in! Btw.. I guess i gotta work on that! Maybe 5-5 with trait 3-7 ?

Wish I could have seen your matches. We could analyze Ducky's play vs. our character. I myself need to start recording matches. Time for us to jump on the bandwagon aspyxia and pick up some vid capture card like HDPVR or LGP, lol.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Its not 7-3 with trait dawg, you just block -__- if she tries Soul Crush or Event horizon (the fullscreen pull) you get a free dash, the pillars you just have to block them till she does something coz HG's dash sucks and a SC/EH will catch you if she does it after a pillar as theyre -1 on block.
One of Raven's issues is actually people that turtle and lame her out as she doesnt have much to open you up.

Without her trait on if you're mid-range (far enough for the lift to miss) and high enough both Soul Crush and Lift will miss, hell alot of time even if you're close the lift will whiff if you're at max height.

Plus her wake up is omega ass, you can go nuts on her after a knockdown, especially in the corner.


I played this MU enough from both sides as HG and Raven are my mains, its not 7-3 or even 6-4 imo, it just needs patience whenever she gets an opening and activates trait.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Its not 7-3 with trait dawg, you just block -__- if she tries Soul Crush or Event horizon (the fullscreen pull) you get a free dash, the pillars you just have to block them till she does something coz HG's dash sucks and a SC/EH will catch you if she does it after a pillar as theyre -1 on block.
One of Raven's issues is actually people that turtle and lame her out as she doesnt have much to open you up.

Without her trait on if you're mid-range (far enough for the lift to miss) and high enough both Soul Crush and Lift will miss, hell alot of time even if you're close the lift will whiff if you're at max height.

Plus her wake up is omega ass, you can go nuts on her after a knockdown, especially in the corner.


I played this MU enough from both sides as HG and Raven are my mains, its not 7-3 or even 6-4 imo, it just needs patience whenever she gets an opening and activates trait.

Ok -_- thank you! I gotta work on this match up then

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Wish I could have seen your matches. We could analyze Ducky's play vs. our character. I myself need to start recording matches. Time for us to jump on the bandwagon aspyxia and pick up some vid capture card like HDPVR or LGP, lol.

LOL! Yes! I would like to record sooooo much matches, but idk how to do it with high quality :c i can only with my cam or cellphone or tablet (lol) and it will look bad :c

 

[TurboTaco]

What do you guys think about the Green Arrow matchup? Came across a few good ones lately and have been struggling against them.

 

[Espio]

5-5 in my opinion used to think it was 4-6, but I get a lot of Green Arrow experience now.

Arrows do almost no chip damage or even damage on hit so if you have a pretty notable lifelead, it can be very hard to come back with zoning, which while his zoning can be annoying, it does no damage.

Our down 1 is great for interrupting down 1 arrow pressure. Well times aerial mace charges while in flight can evade ice, fire etc arrows.

Projectile trades are in our favor because even on block mace toss still does more damage than arrows on hit.

Hawkgirl's down 2 keeps Green Arrow's solid jumping normals in check/honest so it's hard to jump in with him at times.

Up close game is relatively even and neither character gets much damage midscreen.

It seems like a very lifelead based match up from my experience.

 

[Boodendorf]

The only real thing you have to fear from Green Arrow are fire arrows. They're too fast to react to (well I only have online experience though so maybe they're reactable to) unlike his other types. You can avoid em by getting at ceiling height and using mace charge.

Every super setup he has are avoidable using wing evade, yeah it's hard but still doable.

You can catch his wakeup attack using mace charge.

d1 beats his d1 xx low/overhead arrow

 

[TurboTaco]

How do you dodge the super set up? do you just wake up with wing evade?

 

[Chongo]

How do you dodge the super set up? do you just wake up with wing evade?

Depends on what super setup. 111 super can be backdashed, b13 super can be neutral jumped out of, etc.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

With hawkgirl you can apparently WE all of them. doesnt matter which one >__>;