Injustice Post Evo Question: Numbers after Evo

[Doombawkz]

He always has trait in footsies because all he has to do is wait a second and it's there. J2 is mainly used in footsies or after a MB batarang in which case you couldn't D2 either.

You called Batman a sub-par character first, then I called you a sub-par Bane.

I didn't do bad at Evo dick. I lost a very close set against the Evo champ KDZ and still made it out of my pool afterwards. It takes a lot more than a safe jump in to win Evo and in tournaments much of the results have to do with your path to the end.

UsedForGlue for example has figured out a way around Batman's damage scaling that allows him to get more damage of one trait bat meterless than his current 1bar max damage combos. How's that for tech jackass?

I don't insult you to get my point across, it's for my own satisfaction.

I'm not talking footsies, I'm talking pressure. As in you aren't more than a CL away from the opponent. Trait is amazing when you have time to get it out, time it to your jump, and hope the opponent stands there and takes it.

He is a sub-par character. Dependence on trait, average everything. If you are going to pick someone who needs trait to be successful, you may as well pick Bane since he can actually do damage and doesn't need you to play into his game.

I never said you did bad, but that's selective reading for you. I asked why you hadn't won since you have this unstoppable tech that lets you bounce in on people with constantly safe jumps and always-up trait. If you have this amazing phenomenal character who can do all of what you say, then why are we even bothering to play anyone else? In short, if its as good as you say, then you with all of your skill shouldn't lose to anyone because you have the ability to jump in on anyone at any time without being stopped.

That's nice, anything else? Because as nice as it is, its also old. I asked for something new.

Fair enough, you play Batman so I can only assume you are easily satisfied with a lesser result.

 

[Duck Nation]

AK Pig Of The Hut I'm not sure the balance of the game is what you swear it is, to be honest. A lot of people are running solely off tournament results, but tournaments are also getting swarmed with Superman, Bladam, Aquaman and the like. When you have such incredibly strong player preference factoring into it, you're almost inevitably going to see those filter through to the top of the game. Has there ever been a top 8 in any Street Fighter game that didn't have a Ryu in it? Half the damn SF community plays him - of course he'll be there.

I'm not intending to put this like they're bad characters or anything. I do think there's a strong case to be made for them in any metric that they are very powerful (and yes, maybe a touch too much, but I'm not willing to make that ruling yet, personally). What I do think we're just not seeing is how a lot of underrepresented and underplayed characters stack up, because we know very conclusively that, say, Sinestro, can be very dangerous.

I think a more solid argument is to ask about the work involved versus results garnered and compare the characters in the game on that basis. Understanding Superman is not terribly hard, whereas a character like Sinestro will take a lot more investment. Is that fair? Well, you tell me. Personally, I'm not rushing to get up in arms about it, because we've seen the like before. The most popular game in the FGC right now is a sterling example, because even though the skill floor is rather difficult to penetrate (thanks option selects), you'll find SF4 players routinely cracking jokes about how much less work one character has to do in order to succeed. Meanwhile, Gen - one of the noted most difficult characters in the game - just won Evo! Hell, Wound Cowboy and his Shang, as I understand it, are a homegrown version of the same story.

Bringing up Kabal raises a question, essentially, of accessibility. I don't view Superman being easily picked up and played as a terrible issue, because we're still not seeing anybody unskilled take him anywhere. Having a simple toolset does not necessarily mean having the ability to maximize that toolset, and when KDZ goes out and does what he does with that character it's because he's a very solid and very dedicated player. Kabal would not have such an "easy" path to victory, but is it such a huge improvement to have people spend hours in training mode or poring over a forum before they can begin to apply it?

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

Yesterday I actually didn't play Black Adam at all in training. I find the character super boring. I'm thinking about dropping him purely for the fun factor. I'm hoping this dials up the fun factor for me personally. We will see.

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

Yesterday I actually didn't play Black Adam at all in training. I find the character super boring. I'm thinking about dropping him purely for the fun factor. I'm hoping this dials up the fun factor for me personally. We will see.

I find this to be hysterical because I was thinking about PICKING UP Black Adam, this weekend. lol

 

[Perdition]

KDZ just came in here and dropped the best post in the thread.

 

[Doombawkz]

46% meterless no jump in.

B2 orbs 22b1 j2 divekick b23 u1+3

-Yes it is true you can MB f3/b3 his wake ups but then you are burning a bar on the chance that he might wake up. You can do that to most if not all characters to force them to respect you from the ground. Ill gladly let you do it and just block or depending on the f3/b3 back dash and whiff punish.

For the life of me I can't land the damn thing, but I'll take your work for it.

Burning a bar for +9 is pretty nice on account of the you have to respect me when I have a bar. If you refuse to wake-up, theres lots of other meaty set-ups I can do as well, and when your in the corner that's another story entirely as well. Anyways I'm just saying his wake-ups can be stopped, and I personally find them easier to stop than some wake-ups are.

 

[Smarrgasm]

For the life of me I can't land the damn thing, but I'll take your work for it.

Burning a bar for +9 is pretty nice on account of the you have to respect me when I have a bar. If you refuse to wake-up, theres lots of other meaty set-ups I can do as well, and when your in the corner that's another story entirely as well. Anyways I'm just saying his wake-ups can be stopped, and I personally find them easier to stop than some wake-ups are.

But it just becomes a guessing game. We each get the same reward. We each burn a bar and we each get around 35% (im just ballparking on bane f3/b3 damage). Honestly, against black adam its best to just play your game the same as if he were standing up. I will never stop waking up with lightning cage just because you make me pay for it cause its that good.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

People do realize what makes Superman strong is his insane versatility right? It's not just F23. He can approach every match up in the perfect way because he has pretty much everything. Air dashes/decent high low for mix up. Amazing zoning in that pretty much everything he does is incontestable if done properly. A wake up for every situation. Super good ability to whiff punish pretty much anything in the game due to F23, which also gives him very good frame traps. Pretty decent walk speed/amazing dashes. And an anti air for defense, which is huge in this game. He has everything, and that's what makes him so good. That being said I think he could be really balanced with just a couple minor tweaks to his lasers.

 

[dribirut]

WNF - How are numbers after Evo?

NLBC - How are number after Evo?

Training Sessions - How are your numbers after Evo

What is the geenral consensus in your region, scene, etc about the game and its future after Evo

Any complaints, suggestions, etc that people wish or are looking for?


Atlanta Scene:
I think we are taking the game seriously still with a grain of salt because many are worried about this game being dominated by 5 characters. Its almost as if not playing the top 5 characters then you arent playing the game

next Atlanta BNB is Aug 1st so we'll see, Hopefully things continue to go well and I expect Atlanta to take TFC seriously and do well. We are all picking up the top 3-5 characters in the game until further changes if any happen. Like seriously when playing INjustice why would you EVER pick lobo, bane, etc when you can just pick Superman black adam and Aquaman

We are having our Level up gatherings start back next week and hopefully we'll all get a better sense there.

i want this game to continue to grow and do well but am concerned when you have 3-5 extremely dominate characters holding the game's potential back.

ive said it before and ill say it again. how is this game more balanced than mk?

 

[KDZ]

Superman's.
ZONING.
IS.
MEDIOCRE. AT BEST.

People refuse, absolutely refuse to learn, positively absolutely refuse to learn.

 

[Doombawkz]

But it just becomes a guessing game. We each get the same reward. We each burn a bar and we each get around 35% (im just ballparking on bane f3/b3 damage). Honestly, against black adam its best to just play your game the same as if he were standing up. I will never stop waking up with lightning cage just because you make me pay for it cause its that good.

Depends, it'll be in the area of 35% venomless but I probably won't be venomless against BA of all people. I think at level 3 our most damaging string off of f.3 is... like 48% or so meterless (not counting the beginning f.3). At level 2 its about 40% free I think.

That's if we just do the combo. We also have junk like b.23 command grab set-ups that'll net in the area of 55% meterless if done right.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Superman's.
ZONING.
IS.
MEDIOCRE. AT BEST.

People refuse, absolutely refuse to learn, positively absolutely refuse to learn.

Having air/ground options that have 0 recovery frames and are positive on block is huge. Saying it's mediocre is like saying Guile's zoning is just okay. It's the set ups he gets off his zoning with his normals that makes his zoning good.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Depends, it'll be in the area of 35% venomless but I probably won't be venomless against BA of all people. I think at level 3 our most damaging string off of f.3 is... like 48% or so meterless (not counting the beginning f.3). At level 2 its about 40% free I think.

The main thing is, against bane i will only ever wake up if he doesnt have venom on. If he does im just asking to get blown up.

 

[Doombawkz]

The main thing is, against bane i will only ever wake up if he doesnt have venom on. If he does im just asking to get blown up.

Even if we don't, I mean our MB f.3 will still eat through and that's basically a free cooldown meaning we will have venom up constantly. If we do, however, you can find yourself looking at anywhere from... I wanna say 50% per punish.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Doombawkz im sorry but the d2 buff really didnt change Black Adams ability to AA that much. Good priority air normals still do really well vs Adam so i stick to pre-emptive jump 1s or AA B2 for better damage. The vertical hitbox really does nothing against good air moves unless the person jumping at you just doesnt know how to place their attacks correctly.

Secondly, Batman did get the best of both worlds for the most part. People cannot jump at him even when he doesnt have bats now and on top of that his j2 still rapes half the cast for free. All you have to do is add in 1 bat and the whole cast cannot stop him from doing whatever he wants. People are still forgetting how dumb bat trait is and if it werent for Superman taking out REO and a couple pauses from Nightmare we might all be crying about Batman. I know its hard to look at the "what if" situation here but lets not forget how good batman is. His only weakness is not having a wake up attack. Big whoop.

I cry myself muttering "jump 2, jump 2, jump2" every night

quite possibly the most braindead setup this side of d4~MS

 

[godlessmode]

Superman's.
ZONING.
IS.
MEDIOCRE. AT BEST.

People refuse, absolutely refuse to learn, positively absolutely refuse to learn.

The only counter to this I would offer is that his air lazer eyes are very significant in the IGAU zoning game. And I personally find it odd that he has them as a tool, when other, dedicated zoners are strapped down to the ground for their zoning. It lets him counter zone most zoners, including on reaction.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Even if we don't, I mean our MB f.3 will still eat through and that's basically a free cooldown meaning we will have venom up constantly. If we do, however, you can find yourself looking at anywhere from... I wanna say 50% per punish.

One thing is you gotta stop looking at everything from the scope of bane. I love your enthusiasm and belief but you gotta take things in to perspective.

Black Adam has great wake ups. Batman is an amazing character.

 

[Cat]

You're talking about the time they spent with the character.

BUT...are the players themselves bad? As fighting game players, period. Are they scrubs? Because that has what has been said. Would they lose if they used anyone else?

Also...I've heard these same arguments the very first EVO that Kung Lao was around. Look back at those topics. People were saying the same things. There were day 1 and week 1 Kung Laos.

You can teach a monkey to do f23. The char is retarted easy. No matter how good a players ability is he should not be placing with a 1 week char or losing to other supermans with their other chars

You can have a skilled player like Cdj spend a ton of time on lets say. Joker. And still end up losing to a average player with a 1 week superman.

That is ridiculous. Why spend time and effort on other chars when you can half as practice with 1 and win.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Doombawkz]

One thing is you gotta stop looking at everything from the scope of bane. I love your enthusiasm and belief but you gotta take things in to perspective.

Black Adam has great wake ups. Batman is an amazing character.

Black Adam has horrible wake-ups, and Batman is a poor man's Bane.
Q_Q Don't break my dreams.
THEY ARE ALL I HAVE SMUCKERSGASM!

 

[YOMI Reno_Racks]

I'm not talking footsies, I'm talking pressure. As in you aren't more than a CL away from the opponent. Trait is amazing when you have time to get it out, time it to your jump, and hope the opponent stands there and takes it.

He is a sub-par character. Dependence on trait, average everything. If you are going to pick someone who needs trait to be successful, you may as well pick Bane since he can actually do damage and doesn't need you to play into his game.

I never said you did bad, but that's selective reading for you. I asked why you hadn't won since you have this unstoppable tech that lets you bounce in on people with constantly safe jumps and always-up trait. If you have this amazing phenomenal character who can do all of what you say, then why are we even bothering to play anyone else? In short, if its as good as you say, then you with all of your skill shouldn't lose to anyone because you have the ability to jump in on anyone at any time without being stopped.

That's nice, anything else? Because as nice as it is, its also old. I asked for something new.

Fair enough, you play Batman so I can only assume you are easily satisfied with a lesser result.

No your talking D2 and it's relationship to J2. Why would I jump2 up close in pressure. You lost your train of thought again.

He's on nearly every top player's top 5. He has safe mixups, good zoning, tools for every situation and while he needs his trait, he almost always has it.

Getting a safe jump in isn't "unstoppable tech", it just helps with getting in and applying pressure.

UsedForGlue just mentioned it 2 days ago. How is that old?

I'm done going back and forth with a mindless person. I'm here to learn, discuss, level up and have good relationships with my fellow FGC, not to keep arguing with a closeminded moron.

I am willing to talk to you in person if you're gonna be traveling to any majors this summer/fall.

 

[KDZ]

Guile's sonic boom comes out frame 2 of activation, and recovers on frame 6 after activation. It has varying speeds that can be used to zone of follow for protection during rushdown. His normals for anti-air are incredible, so jumping over it gets you punished. It is not duckable.

Superman's zap hitbox is active 38 frames after activation, and recovers 6 frames after.
THIRTY 8 FUCKING FRAMES. If hit during the flight of the laser, the laser no longer exists. It can be ducked.

Superman's vision starts on frame 25 and recovers between 11 to 20 frames after on block, 46 on whiff. If hit at anytime the laser no longer exists. It is blockable both ducking and standing. MB causes a 2nd hit which is overhead.

They're not even close to comparable tools.

Block ducking. If you see the laser touch your crouching body, stand and block. Dash after a whiff or blocked laser. Do this twice and you're now in range to interrupt a 3rd laser if they're bad, or to stop his lasers completely if he's good. Because pushback on block with projectiles is rare in this game, esp without meter, this plan works against most zoners. It works ESP well on superman.

Done. That's it. There's the secret.

 

[Doombawkz]

-snip-

2 days is old. Its extremely old... and they say I'm the slowpoke. Get with the times, its all about that MB slide

Blah blah etc etc, you don't have a choice since you get command grabbed. etc etc etc.
Top players that have him, superman, aquaman, GL, flash, BlAdam, WW, Batgirl, KF...
Out of a top 5, 4 of those are a given and none of those 4 are Batman. So he has to fight about 5 other characters for that spot.

So on so forth. He is average, horrendously average and stale. I haven't seen something this stale since Superman 64.

 

[YOMI Reno_Racks]

2 days is old. Its extremely old... and they say I'm the slowpoke. Get with the times, its all about that MB slide

Blah blah etc etc, you don't have a choice since you get command grabbed. etc etc etc.
Top players that have him, superman, aquaman, GL, flash, BlAdam, WW, Batgirl, KF...
Out of a top 5, 4 of those are a given and none of those 4 are Batman. So he has to fight about 5 other characters for that spot.

So on so forth. He is average, horrendously average and stale. I haven't seen something this stale since Superman 64.

Do you plan on traveling to any majors any time soon?

 

[Doombawkz]

Guile's sonic boom comes out frame 2 of activation, and recovers on frame 6 after activation. It has varying speeds that can be used to zone of follow for protection during rushdown. His normals for anti-air are incredible, so jumping over it gets you punished. It is not duckable.

Superman's zap hitbox is active 38 frames after activation, and recovers 6 frames after.
THIRTY 8 FUCKING FRAMES. If hit during the flight of the laser, the laser no longer exists. It can be ducked.

Superman's vision starts on frame 25 and recovers between 11 to 20 frames after on block, 46 on whiff. If hit at anytime the laser no longer exists. It is blockable both ducking and standing. MB causes a 2nd hit which is overhead.

They're not even close to comparable tools.

Block ducking. If you see the laser touch your crouching body, stand and block. Dash after a whiff or blocked laser. Do this twice and you're now in range to interrupt a 3rd laser if they're bad, or to stop his lasers completely if he's good. Because pushback on block with projectiles is rare in this game, esp without meter, this plan works against most zoners. It works ESP well on superman.

Done. That's it. There's the secret.

I can agree his zoning isn't what makes him great, but he has it and they CAN do some good stuff if people don't get past them.
And then once you do, you've got to deal with his up-close game. Ends out he can keep you in or boot you back out to run the gauntlet again. As a Bane, his zoning hurts my soul. Wheres my story-mode AK-47?

 

[Doombawkz]

Do you plan on traveling to any majors any time soon?

Nah, EVO was probably the only one I'm going to bother to go to for a bit. I've gotta work and look after siblings, so I don't have the time or free expenses to go out. That's why I went all out at EVO and grabbed plenty of goodies to take home to the kiddies.