NRS zoning

[SolomonGrundman]

D2

Yes I know d2 beats Cyborgs air, the problem is getting close enough to do it. Ever played a really good Cyborg?

 

[Hellbringer]

Yes I know d2 beats Cyborgs air, the problem is getting close enough to do it. Ever played a really good Cyborg?

Yeh

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

Wait, so you want me to think that one good players opinion, which obviously has an extreme bias favor for his character vs the big bodies I.e. dooms, bane etc, is enough to make a logical example of how hard it is for Grundy to beat cyborg? I can only imagine the heartache you go though on a daily basis of getting mopped up 9-1 by a cornucopia of cyborg players.

I actually dont have any bias towards big characters, just that matchup.
youre looking at what i said regarding pre-patch cyborg (big bodies being extremely easy to block infinite making those matches unwinnable)

 

[SolomonGrundman]

Yeh

Well a good Cyborg counters Grundy completely. Beats his air game, can't use hands against Cyborg, walking corpse is just free damage from cyborg. Only thing you can do is hope they make a mistake and d2.

Also, not complaining about Cyborg btw, I think he takes a lot of skill to play correctly. Just defending the other post.

 

[CiscoRey]

One thing that I've learned from most fighting games is that playing with big/grappler/rush-down characters will require you to understand more of the game's nuances than a zoner is required to know. Which is why zoning characters appeal so much to casual players—it's that much easier to learn how to back dash and spam projectiles/intractables. That being said, unless the engine revolves around a simple rock/paper/scissors model (i.e.: DoA), balancing characters can be a tough task for developers that aren't even trying.

 

[SolomonGrundman]

One thing that I've learned from most fighting games is that playing with big/grappler/rush-down characters will require you to understand more of the game's nuances than a zoner is required to know. Which is why zoning characters appeal so much to casual players—it's that much easier to learn how to back dash and spam projectiles/intractables. That being said, unless the engine revolves around a simple rock/paper/scissors model (i.e.: DoA), balancing characters can be a tough task for developers that aren't even trying.

Make Grundy's mb hands much faster to counter ds spam, give Bane's running dash faster frame startup. Hire SolomonGrundman for buffs.

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

One thing that I've learned from most fighting games is that playing with big/grappler/rush-down characters will require you to understand more of the game's nuances than a zoner is required to know. Which is why zoning characters appeal so much to casual players—it's that much easier to learn how to back dash and spam projectiles/intractables. That being said, unless the engine revolves around a simple rock/paper/scissors model (i.e.: DoA), balancing characters can be a tough task for developers that aren't even trying.

lol that bias
yeah morrigan is a lot easier to play with than wolverine
dhalsim is a lot easier to play than cammy











Kappa

 

[BaronVonRupert]

Make Grundy's mb hands much faster to counter ds spam, give Bane's running dash faster frame startup. Hire SolomonGrundman for buffs.

I've always wished that when you mb swamp hands that it would activate when you decide to press mb. either super early or late. would help him out a ton imo. maybe too much but it would be awesome

 

[CiscoRey]

Make Grundy's mb hands much faster to counter ds spam, give Bane's running dash faster frame startup. Hire SolomonGrundman for buffs.

Those aren't bad suggestions at all. Again, a tough task for developers that aren't even trying.

 

[SolomonGrundman]

I've always wished that when you mb swamp hands that it would activate when you decide to press mb. either super early or late. would help him out a ton imo. maybe too much but it would be awesome

Yea, being able to control when the mb armor comes out would help. Instead of mbing the hands only for the animation to not come out because deathstroke is firing non stop.

 

[CiscoRey]

lol that bias
yeah morrigan is a lot easier to play with than wolverine
dhalsim is a lot easier to play than cammy

Kappa

Not much bias. There's obviously exceptions to the rule. Dhalsim happens to be one of those exceptions—his ridiculously slow movement has always deterred noobs from using him. I have encountered some pretty fucking annoying Dhalsim zoners in SF4—most of which crumble when the zone breaks down.

Even so, Dhalsim is a very poor example of the typical zoning character found in most fighting games today.

 

[trufenix]

Even so, Dhalsim is a very poor example of the typical zoning character found in most fighting games today.

Fraud detected

 

[CiscoRey]

lol that bias
yeah morrigan is a lot easier to play with than wolverine
dhalsim is a lot easier to play than cammy

Kappa

Come to think of it, is Morrigan really a zoning character? I've always—at least as far as MvC3 is concerned—considered her to be a bit more of a rush down character.

 

[CiscoRey]

Fraud detected

??

 

[fong03]

Actually, unless I specifically read a jump, then she can still hit me with the charge on reaction to the animation where I raise my arm before the boulder hits. She can also air dash to avoid the boulder, then punish.

Now admittedly, if I read a jump, then yes I can boulder, but this is a risk/reward thing. If I misread you and boulder thinking you'll jump, then I just gave you a free 2-3 dashes and usually a free punish, depending on where on the screen you are. If I misread a dash and either fear blast or shackles, you get one free dash (Unless I MB FB) on block, maybe two for Shackles, or you can punch me in the head if you'd jumped.
However. I can't hit you with any projectiles on reaction unless you randomly press buttons from full screen.

The reason I used Sinestro as an example is because it's a matchup I've played quite a bit and one of the examples he gave of zoning she can't get in on.

The timing on that has to be perfect though. You almost have to make the right guess to dodge it. Now if you can bait the boulder, yes you can punish it. And if you're on the ground, you can get in with two dashes and punish. I just don't think it's as easy ad you make it sound. Granted, I'm not a top player so it could just be a skill gap. It just seems to me that he does have to tools to keep you at bay.

But we're arguing over finer points because we both agree that he does not have the tools to completely keep her out. One correct read or mistake by Sinestro and she is in.

 

[SaJa]

now i get NRS is probably tired of complaints and so are the people. but what the hell is up with almost every character with the exception for certain characters like catwoman, wonderwwoman,flash,solomonG,bane,etc can zone. like do you guys think before giving these characters certain abilities. like do you guys know how hard it for certain characters to get in when you have majority of the online players running away and zoning. like what the hell do you guys expect us non zoners to do. like you have raven that has full screen grabs, sinestro whos zoning is hard to get by. deathstroke(no words) and the rest of the cast. if you have non zoning characters they should be able to stay in your face like an annoying bitch. for an example. Wonderwoman has no real safe way to get in so what the fuck can she do against zoners, and her d1 is negative so thats a pain. you guys need to change this now. zoning is to dominant in this game.

Zoning will always have the best spot online, and then when you play offline, you just realize every char can deal with it easily.

 

[Jeffreys]

i hate those too bro.
i have experienced those zoner guys at xbox live too. For example a noob that pick up superman and did the annoying laser all the time! instead i picked raven and at last i had 10% health and he had 60%. but with two combos thanx to raven teleport i've beaten him up!
i will agree totally with u. Also batgirl is the worst zoner in the game. Some noobs pick her and wait for you to jump and then do that trick that hang the character in the air by the rope!
Do you know how to handle batgirl in this way? I think batgirl is the most annoying zoner in the game.
sorry for my bad english guys!
I hope you got what i meant!

Batgirl is a counter zoner and her teleport is heavily punishable on block. Batgirl is an amazing character and I would not suggest jumping at all in this matchup.

 

[NY_Jailhouse]

batgirl is godlike but needs to take extreme risks at times and might get punished profusely

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

this thread should have ended right after this post. i'm not even going to read anymore. the only way you can adapt is to grind it out.

yes sir.

 

[Fromundaman]

yes sir.

On the plus side, there's actually been some useful information shared in this thread, so it wasn't a waste.

 

[AZ MotherBrain]

On the plus side, tere's actually been some useful information shared in this thread, so it wasn't a waste.

yes, well, its just fighting game knowledge, I have been dealing with fireballs for along time, same concept applies to all fighting games, well at least 2d, I know those tekken and soulcal heads would have some trouble with projectiles for sure.

 

[Red Venom]

Lobo: I'll just go for the 21 string from mid distance to check them with the chain into a low space hoo..... and they punish me for a full combo as soon as the 2 comes out.

I played in Catnip_Her0's stream last night and got zoned out by a Raven. The first time I fought her I almost won cause the player didn't know what to expect, I landed at least 3 full combos. But as soon as I tried again all the Raven did was zone and whenever I got relatively close she demon stanced and F-ed me over with a teleport so I ate full-combos.

 

[sethstronghold]

her air charge is negative and can be full combo punished. do u even play ww?

You don't actually hit the opponent with the dash, you just use it to get in. Also, with the air dash you can cover a lot of ground, and no one can stop you from doing it. And if you don't like doing that then you can just block and dash. You just need to practice getting passed zoning, and know when you can dash and when you can't. For instance, usually after meterburn projectiles you can't dash. After superman straight laser you can't dash, you have to duck. Just get better at the game.

 

[Eastern Embers]

now i get NRS is probably tired of complaints and so are the people. but what the hell is up with almost every character with the exception for certain characters like catwoman, wonderwwoman,flash,solomonG,bane,etc can zone. like do you guys think before giving these characters certain abilities. like do you guys know how hard it for certain characters to get in when you have majority of the online players running away and zoning. like what the hell do you guys expect us non zoners to do. like you have raven that has full screen grabs, sinestro whos zoning is hard to get by. deathstroke(no words) and the rest of the cast. if you have non zoning characters they should be able to stay in your face like an annoying bitch. for an example. Wonderwoman has no real safe way to get in so what the fuck can she do against zoners, and her d1 is negative so thats a pain. you guys need to change this now. zoning is to dominant in this game.

You ask those questions like they're some unanswerable, unsolvable mystery.

Raven: Block and walk. Seriously. Soul crush is -20.
Deathstroke: Block and walk. Guns recover pretty damn slowly.
Sinestro: Block and walk. Block high when he drops the super telegraphable boulder. Seriously, he pretty much might as well shout and hang a neon sign before he actually drops the thing.
Killer Frost: Block low? Daggers hit high, ice spike hits mid. No worries there.
Superman: Jump over ground lasers, block air lasers high.
Green Arrow low arrows: Block low. Block jumping arrows high. They're overheads. His zoning is kind of awful and nonthreatening compared to other zoning.

You're not going to be able to do all that right away. It's called match up experience. Just having the knowledge is half the problem. You need to practice implementing it in a real match. It's going to be frustrating, but if I can do it, so can you.

 

[ABACABB]

Zoning in this game is easy to do and boring , especially with superman , deathstroke , lantern , even sinestro. Try to win by zoning with freddy in mk9 . He is a great zoner but not easy to use . Thats the character type this game needs . Freddy have so many tools to use , and you needed to use all of them ( not just 2) at the right time to be successful Here you have characters with one or two spammable moves and you call it "zoning"