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The Kano Match Up Thread

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Well, I am not happy with the latest nerfs that Kano has received as many of you already know. In fact, I will be honest by saying that it appears on paper to me that Skarlet can do many of the things that Kano used to be able to do. However, I still think Kano has a place in tournaments. I am not dropping him. So, let us start with Kano's difficult match ups first. Do post your own opinions, but please do your research. Corrections and new insights are welcome.

Kano Vs. Kung Lao
Match Up: 4 : 6 in favor of Kung Lao
Brief analysis: I think the Kung Lao match up must be one of Kano's most difficult match ups. Kung Lao is a balanced character in the sense that he is jack of all trades and does not have a particular weakness that can be exploited. Kano must keep Kung Lao away in my opinion. Should Kung Lao come close, expect to block a barrage of 1,1,2~Low Hat strings that Kano can no longer punish on block thanks to the added start up frames on the Up Ball. If the Low Hat connects up close, Kano has to block another string, and no one wants to deal with that. Kano's best chance is to zone Kung Lao at mid screen or further with the knives. Be aware of dive kicks and teleports, though. Be aware of his Low Hat too at larger distances because it has a great recovery. However, Kung Lao cannot toss projectiles as far as Kano can as there is a "cool down" until the hat re-appears on his head. Furthermore, no character, including Kano, can approach Kung Lao from the air. If you jump, you get hit by the Spin (d,f+1) against good players. It is as simple as that. Instead, check him on the ground with b+1,1,2, d+3, and d+1 to create space. Blocked Up Balls result in easy Spins, so think twice about using them on wake up. Kano is better off using wake up Choke albeit it can be crouched.

Kano Vs. Sub Zero
Match Up: 4 : 6 in favor of Sub Zero
Brief Analysis: Sub Zero can walk Kano to the corner and there is not much Kano can do about it. Aside from the X-Ray, Kano has no anti-Ice Clone tools because none of his enhanced special attacks have any armor. More or less, Kano has to kill Sub Zero before Sub Zero corners him. This is easier said than done, but keep in mind that Sub Zero cannot perform point blank Ice Clones. Another tremendous problem is that Sub Zero's slide goes underneath the knives. The Sub Zero player can slide underneath the knives on reaction at mid range, which now works better than ever thanks to the added recovery frames. Kano's best chance is to try and bait a slide by whiffing d+1s and d+3s and punish with a combo. Sub Zero's 2,2~Ice Ball punishes the Up Ball, but it has to be done quickly. The slide is an easy punish otherwise.

Kano vs. Cyber Sub Zero
Match Up: 4 : 6 in favor of Cyber Sub Zero
Brief Analysis: Kano can keep tossing knives on Cyber Sub full screen away. However, as soon as Cyber Sub approaches the mid screen, Kano has to stop. The far dive kick punishes any knife toss on reaction mid screen. The slide may also be used, but Cyber Sub players usually stick to the far dive kick as it is a much safer option. The problem is that Cyber Sub's forward dash is very quick, so keeping him full screen away is impossible. Kano's best chance is to try to bait a dive kick by whiffing d+1s and d+3s and punish with the straight ball. By the way, all dive kicks are punishable by the straight ball with the exception of the EX dive kick when it hits low. Furthermore, Cyber Sub's parry is another problem. It parries all of Kano's attacks except d+1, d+3, and d+4. Up close Cyber Sub rushes with 2,1 and 2,1,1+2 and getting away is not easy. He only punishes the Up Ball with the slide as far as I know because his jabs are rather slow.

Kano vs. Nightwolf
Match Up: 4 : 6 in favor of Nightwolf
Brief Analysis: Kano struggles in this match up because Nightwolf can reflect the Knife Toss and the EX Knife Toss and use each against Kano. Nightwolf's EX Reflect absorbs almost all projectiles and gives him back roughly 15% of life. Needless to say, tossing knives is not an option vs. Nightwolf. Nightwolf cannot be zoned, but Kano can still build meter by neutral jumping full screen away and air throwing just as his feet are about to touch the ground. Because Kano is jumping, you also avoid Nightwolf's unblockable Lightning attacks in the process. If you jump, the regular Lightning is terribly unsafe and can be punished full screen away with the straight ball. Pay close attention to the EX Lightning because it juggles, has a larger hitbox, and recovers a little bit quicker than the regular version. Nightwolf's arrow is a mediocre projectile, so you have nothing else to worry about full screen away. The arrow has a slow start up, but it does travel rather quickly. Nightwolf's best special attack is the shoulder ram. The shoulder ram controls the mid range very well. The attack is safe on block. In order to punish the shoulder ram, you have to crouch without blocking and it will whiff entirely. Kano can d+2 or b+1,1,2 + combo if you are adequately fast. You can also keep whiffing d+1 and d+3 and the shoulder ram cannot harm you because you are crouching, but watch out for Lightning. Kano has to rush Nightwolf down in order to have a chance at victory. Nightwolf's wake up game is good but not great. As I have already mentioned, the shoulder ram hits high and be crouched without blocking. The same is valid for Nightwolf's Choke and EX Choke. However, the EX Hatchet juggles and hits those who crouch without blocking, but you can cross up Nightwolf and the EX Hatchet will whiff. Kano has an easier time fighting Nightwolf with full super meter, especially since Nightwolf's f+3,1~Hatchet is very effective. Also, do not abuse the Up Ball. Nightwolf punishes the Up Ball with a full combo now.

Kano Vs. Shang Tsung (by D.Barrett)
Match Up: 5 : 5 (arguably 6 : 4 in Kano’s favor)
Brief analysis: I believe this match up can go either in Kano’s favor or be an even experience for both zoning type characters. That being said lets break down the style in which Shang places his up skulls, and down skulls. A majority of Shang’s will mix up their barrage of skulls through skulls that pop up or come down where you stand, or cutting off your advances with a forward up/down skull to keep you where he wants you, plus build meter, or take life from your struggle. The best answer I have found is to be tactical with your knife throws by using dash blocking forward into your knife toss, or back dashing into knife toss. Now abusing this tactic is only half the battle as it will not be enough to convince shang to give up the zoning war. The possibility of using meter for things like EX Soul Steal can come into play where he will cut off your counter pressure with an absorbed knife and thus becoming your character. This is where things like instant air ball will come into play allowing you to mix up the zoning pressure. Reading and watching the movements of the opponent will keep you ready as you bait and punish his up/down/forward skulls with knife or a well placed air ball. Note most of this must be done at mid screen as a full screen Air ball whiffing can lead into a full BnB from the old sorcerer. Once his zoning game seems like high risk low reward you will see him try to advance. This is when you will do the same and apply close range pressure with B+1,1,2…D+1xxChoke or other mix ups as you see fit. While up close I recommend blocking high, but keeping your eye out for shang’s F+3,4 combination. A majority of his strings have overheads as well as the F+4,3,4 string which must be blocked high entirely or you will eat damage. With that said, just apply mix ups and allow him to make mistakes as he comes to you. Pick your poison on how you approach this match and do your best to shut down his zoning options at all cost.



More to come. This is not a one man project. Add your own strategies by private messaging me. Just please test off-line before you state something as a fact. We do not want to spread misinformation to new players.
 

Massive Kano

Black Dragon
"Aside from the X-Ray, Kano has no anti-Ice Clone tools because none of his enhanced special attacks have any armor."

EX ball has armor, no?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Yamo said:
"Aside from the X-Ray, Kano has no anti-Ice Clone tools because none of his enhanced special attacks have any armor."

EX ball has armor, no?
I don't know what's going on with that move, but I can't get it to blow through Ice Clones or projectiles. Perhaps it only has armor for a limited amount of frames. I'll have to ask Tom about this one.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Mgt2 said:
wait... Kung Lao 6:4 vs Kano? I dunno about that..
The match up used to be 5:5 in my opinion. Kano used to be able to punish all strings that end in low hat with the Up Ball. Now that the Up Ball has two more frames of start up, it no longer punishes the low hat. Kung Lao's d,f+1 punishes the Up Ball in sleep now. Too easy.
 

D.Barrett

Pad Warrior
It seems that there making things harder and harder for kano. Rushdown doesnt seem strong enough, and zoning will become more difficult with his changes to knifes. I guess it just comes down to bait and punish, but that can only get you so far when you go against a good player.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
D.Barrett said:
It seems that there making things harder and harder for kano. Rushdown doesnt seem strong enough, and zoning will become more difficult with his changes to knifes. I guess it just comes down to bait and punish, but that can only get you so far when you go against a good player.
Kano's rush down game is still very solid in my opinion. b+1,1,2 is +1 on block and juggles. b+1,1,2 is definitely one of the better strings in the game, which is good because Kano has to play the rush down game a little bit more now. I agree that his zoning game has become worse.

Prepare for more difficult match ups. I have a feeling that all downloadable characters will be A+ tier at least. People will refuse to pay for bad characters, so NRS will obviously make DLCs powerful. Kenshi looks solid already.
 

D.Barrett

Pad Warrior
Kano's rush down game is still very solid in my opinion. b+1,1,2 is +1 on block and juggles. b+1,1,2 is definitely one of the better strings in the game, which is good because Kano has to play the rush down game a little bit more now. I agree that his zoning game has become worse.

Prepare for more difficult match ups. I have a feeling that all downloadable characters will be A+ tier at least. People will refuse to pay for bad characters, so NRS will obviously make DLCs powerful. Kenshi looks solid already.
Without a doubt.B+1,1,2 is his best option up close. And i find Dash D+3, Dash D+3, into grab or choke help keep the offensive pressure rolling. But in the end I find it hard to keep that constant pressure due to slow mix ups like his overhead. I want to try using blockstrings into choke. But find B+1,1,2 into mix ups or baits to be much more rewarding.

And yea kenshi, looks very very good. He's gonna be hard to rush down, and characters that dont have long range options will probaly fall to his blade. I look forward to using him on the side. Played him alot in DA and the games after.
 

GUNZaBLAZE

Apprentice
Hey Dave I have some suggestions for the Kano-Kung Lao matchup. Bating out the spin by conditioning the opponent with rush down is a good strategy because it could get a full combo or a walk up grab on the spins cool down. Also, teleports can be upballed if read in time. Ex teleport should just be escaped from with horizontal kano ball. I believe a lot in this match depends on bating out Kung Lao's unsafe moves; I.e. spin, blocked dive kick, teleports and setting him up for mistakes.

Sub-zero and Kano matchup must take place either right in front of Sub-zero's face or at max distance. Anywhere in the middle just doesn't work out in Kano's favor. Spacing is very important in this match. Also, patience is essential since the Kano player can not get impatient when zoning out with knives from far away. Additionally, if knives are being thrown from far away, the cool down on knives is still good enough to recover before a slide reaches Kano leading to a <1,1,2 combo launcher.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
GUNZaBLAZE said:
Hey Dave I have some suggestions for the Kano-Kung Lao matchup. Bating out the spin by conditioning the opponent with rush down is a good strategy because it could get a full combo or a walk up grab on the spins cool down. Also, teleports can be upballed if read in time. Ex teleport should just be escaped from with horizontal kano ball. I believe a lot in this match depends on bating out Kung Lao's unsafe moves; I.e. spin, blocked dive kick, teleports and setting him up for mistakes.
You bring up valid points. The problem is that high level Kung Lao players do not abuse the Spin. They know when to use it and when not to use it. You can bait the Spin, but you always have to respect it on wake up because Kung Lao gets a fairly easy 37% combo afterwards. On the other hand, Kano's staple combo only does 33% of damage.

The Spin is the best move in the game. No one has a 6 frame anti air attack that juggles except Kung Lao. That is why you have to block a million 1,1,2~Ground Hat strings from cross ups as Kung Lao builds meter like a maniac. Yet you can neither approach him nor cross him up because of the threat of the Spin. I think that NRS may have to buff other characters to compete with Kung Lao. He is better than 90% of characters in this game. Is there any good reason not to pick him at tournaments?
 

cyke_out

Warrior
thanks for the cyber sub break down, he's been giving me the biggest trouble recently. does up-ball beat dive kick or will they trade and the winner decided randomly as MK does.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
cyke_out said:
thanks for the cyber sub break down, he's been giving me the biggest trouble recently. does up-ball beat dive kick or will they trade and the winner decided randomly as MK does.
Up Ball beats dive kick every time. Just don't do it too late. You can always block and punish the dive kick with straight ball. Only the enhanced dive kick is safe, but it must hit very low like Rufus's dive kick in Street Fighter.

If the Cyber Sub player is just spamming dive kicks on Kano, he's playing wrong, though.
 

cyke_out

Warrior
I had no idea I could even punish dive kicks, I always thought they were safe when down lower to the ground, so I never tried. and now I know I can up-ball to beat them out too. Awesome!
 

Xstatic

Noob
I think that NRS may have to buff other characters to compete with Kung Lao. He is better than 90% of characters in this game. Is there any good reason not to pick him at tournaments?
There really isn't. Kung Lao is master of all trades, jack of none. It seems like no matter who you main, KL probably can do what your character does but better or can just nullify your tools in general. I think the match-up charts that are being developed right now are going to truly show how dominating he is. The counter to KL is to be a better KL player LOL.
 
No offense, but I'd actually put Kano vs Subzero 6:4 in Kano's advantage. Kano has better zoning and with good timing can throw a knife and block an ice ball. He can use down ball to dodge projectiles . Also I kind of find sub zeros slide to be pretty easy to block on reaction and the fact Kanos x-ray can break through an ice clone and catch your opponent off guard tops it all. Just to add Nightwolf is sometimes a frustrating char to face, but I find that you can bait out reflect with knifes and then punish with a down ball on reaction.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Feel_The_Byrne said:
No offense, but I'd actually put Kano vs Subzero 6:4 in Kano's advantage. Kano has better zoning and with good timing can throw a knife and block an ice ball. He can use down ball to dodge projectiles . Also I kind of find sub zeros slide to be pretty easy to block on reaction and the fact Kanos x-ray can break through an ice clone and catch your opponent off guard tops it all. Just to add Nightwolf is sometimes a frustrating char to face, but I find that you can bait out reflect with knifes and then punish with a normal ball on reaction.
Sub Zero has no reason to throw Ice Balls against Kano. He can approach Kano at mid range and threaten Kano's zoning game with the slide. Sub Zero can slide under Kano's knives on reaction, not anticipation. In other words, good Sub Zero players will not slide and hope for the best. They will only slide if they see a knife on the screen. Sub Zero will push Kano to the corner little by little and there is nothing Kano can do aside from X-Ray because none of his enhanced special moves have armor. Kano does not beat Sub Zero 6:4. Not in this game.

As far as Nightwolf is concerned, how are you baiting Reflects with knives? Nightwolf will reflect each knife on reaction (i.e., when the player sees that there is one on the screen). Nightwolf has no reason to use the Reflect otherwise.
 
Sub Zero has no reason to throw Ice Balls against Kano. He can approach Kano at mid range and threaten Kano's zoning game with the slide. Sub Zero can slide under Kano's knives on reaction, not anticipation. In other words, good Sub Zero players will not slide and hope for the best. They will only slide if they see a knife on the screen. Sub Zero will push Kano to the corner little by little and there is nothing Kano can do aside from X-Ray because none of his enhanced special moves have armor. Kano does not beat Sub Zero 6:4. Not in this game.

As far as Nightwolf is concerned, how are you baiting Reflects with knives? Nightwolf will reflect each knife on reaction (i.e., when the player sees that there is one on the screen). Nightwolf has no reason to use the Reflect otherwise.
Well I probably haven't played 'high class' sub zeros, so that's probably the reason, I'm just speaking from experience. And against Nightwolfs, sometimes I throw a knife, jump the rebound amd downball, I don't spam this as I think its blockable if your fast enough. Off topic is there a way you can guarentee downballs hit, instead of landing in front of your opponent?
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
No offense, but I'd actually put Kano vs Subzero 6:4 in Kano's advantage. Kano has better zoning and with good timing can throw a knife and block an ice ball. He can use down ball to dodge projectiles . Also I kind of find sub zeros slide to be pretty easy to block on reaction and the fact Kanos x-ray can break through an ice clone and catch your opponent off guard tops it all.
As a Sub-Zero player, I don't think there are too many matchups Sub wins easily, but Kano is definitely one of them, in my opinion.This is one of those matchups I think Sub dominates somwhere between 6-4 and 7-3. When I see somebody pick Kano, I know I am probably going to win unless they're immense...
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
As a Sub-Zero player, I don't think there are too many matchups Sub wins easily, but Kano is definitely one of them, in my opinion.This is one of those matchups I think Sub dominates somwhere between 6-4 and 7-3. When I see somebody pick Kano, I know I am probably going to win unless they're immense...
I couldn't agree more! Kano is my main, and I've got about a 7-1 win ratio with him, but if I fight a good Sub-Zero player I pretty much have no choice but to hang back and sling knives to make Sub-Zero come to me. Jumping in on Sub-Zero is retarded no matter who you're playing, and Kanoball and Airball are just as bad. You just can't get in on the guy. The best you can hope for is to bait and counter a slide, or to Airball over the freeze ball and not hit an ice clone. Considering Kano's knives can be ducked or slide under makes the situation even worse. I'd have to give any evenly-matched Kano vs Sub-Zero match to Sub-Zero.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
The Sub Zero match up is bad. It's 4:6, approaching 3:7 in favor of Sub Zero. Sub Zero is one of the three reasons a Kano player will never win a major tournament. Kung Lao and Nightwolf are the other two.
 

D.Barrett

Pad Warrior
Concerning the Kung Lao match up. I find baiting dive kicks to be a bitter sweet task. Mainly due to the change in knife speed, but i find once I pause and wave dash or even attempt to throw out some normals as baits, the KL fighter will use his roll kick manuver to close the gap, instead of the obvious dive kick over projectile. Does anyone have an idea on how to prevent this as ive found it stuffs my up ball. Maybe i need to respond faster to the move but i find keeping kung lao at full screen is the only option in this fight. Baiting dive kicks wont be too successful when playing a smart KL.

And another thing. Regarding the B+1.1.2 block string. Would you go for the D+1 afterwards and abuse the frame advantage? Im more prone to baiting the top spin, and find myself a bit nervous to advance my pressure when up close with KL. Any advice would help, i just dont think Kano is fast enough to risk mix ups with KLs speed plus top spin attack
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I honestly haven't used Kano much since the up ball and knife nerfs. If I recall correctly, when Kung Lao blocks b+1,1,2, he shouldn't be able to interrupt d+1 with d,f+1. b+1,1,2 is +1 on block and d+1 is 6 frames fast. d+1 actually comes out in 5 frames after b+1,1,2 because of the +1 block advantage. Kung Lao's d,f+1 is 6 frames, according to DrDogg. Very few people are aware, but generic d+1s aren't safe in this game with the exception of Kitana's, I believe. The point is albeit b+1,1,2, d+1 is a good block string against Kung Lao and others, you put yourself at a disadvantage when it gets blocked. I believe the vast majority of d+1s are -8 on block.

Kano doesn't really have any frame traps per se, but b+1,1,2 is obviously Kano's best string by far. Someone has recently mentioned something in Karaokelove's thread that I've been using for a very long time. While b+1,1 is unsafe, b+1 itself has a great recovery. You can b+1 and throw or b+1 and cross up with a jumping punch. You can also b+1 and b+1 again. These mix ups are simple yet effective, particularly when you train your opponent to block a lot of b+1,1,2s. Furthermore, every serious Kano player should be able to do b+1,1,2, quick dash 2,1,2, dash 2,1,2, up ball 95% of the time. You need the damage, especially against Kung Lao. This combo should be used every time to punish blocked d,f+1s.

Unfortunately, I see Kung Lao winning this match up 6:4, but Kano should be able to do some damage. You have to keep Kung Lao away, but the problem is the knife has been toned, so it's going to be very difficult beating a competent Kung Lao player.