The Kano Match Up Thread

[Sao87]

I honestly haven't used Kano much since the up ball and knife nerfs. If I recall correctly, when Kung Lao blocks b+1,1,2, he shouldn't be able to interrupt d+1 with d,f+1. b+1,1,2 is +1 on block and d+1 is 6 frames fast. d+1 actually comes out in 5 frames after b+1,1,2 because of the +1 block advantage. Kung Lao's d,f+1 is 6 frames, according to DrDogg. Very few people are aware, but generic d+1s aren't safe in this game with the exception of Kitana's, I believe. The point is albeit b+1,1,2, d+1 is a good block string against Kung Lao and others, you put yourself at a disadvantage when it gets blocked. I believe the vast majority of d+1s are -8 on block.

Most of the good Kano's I've seen will do a d+1 after a b+1,1,2 string and cancel that d+1 with a choke. This will catch people attempting to do anything but block and make the d+1 safe.

 

[Xstatic]

I honestly haven't used Kano much since the up ball and knife nerfs. If I recall correctly, when Kung Lao blocks b+1,1,2, he shouldn't be able to interrupt d+1 with d,f+1. b+1,1,2 is +1 on block and d+1 is 6 frames fast. d+1 actually comes out in 5 frames after b+1,1,2 because of the +1 block advantage. Kung Lao's d,f+1 is 6 frames, according to DrDogg. Very few people are aware, but generic d+1s aren't safe in this game with the exception of Kitana's, I believe. The point is albeit b+1,1,2, d+1 is a good block string against Kung Lao and others, you put yourself at a disadvantage when it gets blocked. I believe the vast majority of d+1s are -8 on block.

Kano doesn't really have any frame traps per se, but b+1,1,2 is obviously Kano's best string by far. Someone has recently mentioned something in Karaokelove's thread that I've been using for a very long time. While b+1,1 is unsafe, b+1 itself has a great recovery. You can b+1 and throw or b+1 and cross up with a jumping punch. You can also b+1 and b+1 again. These mix ups are simple yet effective, particularly when you train your opponent to block a lot of b+1,1,2s. Furthermore, every serious Kano player should be able to do b+1,1,2, quick dash 2,1,2, dash 2,1,2, up ball 95% of the time. You need the damage, especially against Kung Lao. This combo should be used every time to punish blocked d,f+1s.

Unfortunately, I see Kung Lao winning this match up 6:4, but Kano should be able to do some damage. You have to keep Kung Lao away, but the problem is the knife has been toned, so it's going to be very difficult beating a competent Kung Lao player.

I was the one who suggested the b1 into throw set-up in that thread. It's his best mix-up option, IMO. I agree that his b112, 212, b12~upball is his best combo (33%) but I never miss the one I'm using now (b112, b112, d1~upball) which is 31%. 2% isn't much of a difference, and I feel comfortable with it more than the other.

I played a really good Kung Lao last night (MagnetoHalfway), and I was at my best when I was able to zone him. You can't be too scared to get hit with the dive kick. Once he needs to use the dive kick, your already in his head. Hopefully, you can bait him into a blocked divekick and punish. It's a really hard match-up.

 

[Sao87]

I was the one who suggested the b1 into throw set-up in that thread. It's his best mix-up option, IMO. I agree that his b112, 212, b12~upball is his best combo (33%) but I never miss the one I'm using now (b112, b112, d1~upball) which is 31%. 2% isn't much of a difference, and I feel comfortable with it more than the other.

I like to do B+1,1,2 dash 2,1,2 j.k air throw. I don't know the exact numbers on it, but I know its near the 30's and grants you mix up potential or safe jump setup.

The way I see it is Kano wants to end everything in air throw or choke because it leaves him at advantage, similar to how Johnny cage wants to end everything in Nut punch. The set ups are infinitely more valuable then squeezing out a little bit more damage.

 

[Xstatic]

I like to do B+1,1,2 dash 2,1,2 j.k air throw. I don't know the exact numbers on it, but I know its near the 30's and grants you mix up potential or safe jump setup.

The way I see it is Kano wants to end everything in air throw or choke because it leaves him at advantage, similar to how Johnny cage wants to end everything in Nut punch. The set ups are infinitely more valuable then squeezing out a little bit more damage.

Does choke even set up much of an oki situation? It has a lot of recovery on hit to the point where it seems pretty neutral.

 

[M2Dave]

Most of the good Kano's I've seen will do a d+1 after a b+1,1,2 string and cancel that d+1 with a choke. This will catch people attempting to do anything but block and make the d+1 safe.

If you crouch block d+1, the choke whiffs and you should be able to punish with a full combo.

 

[Xstatic]

So, I've been analyzing some combos.

After a jump-in, b112, 212, b12~upball does the most damage (37%), without a jump-in it does 33%. This combos puts the opponent the farthest away of all the combos. b112, 212, 212, upball does 36% with a jump-in, 33% without and has better spacing than the prior combo. b112, b112, d1~upball does 35% with a jump-in, 31% without and the distance is the same as the previous combo. B112, 212, j3/4~Air grab does 34% with a jump-in, 31% without and has the best spacing of them all. While this leaves the opponent close, the recovery after the air throw is a bit too long. Even though the distances are different, every combo except the last one can just be rolled anyways...

So, in general, the combo of choice is up to the user. There isn't a whole lot of difference in damage between them, but the spacing on the last one is nice.

 

[Slego]

Hours and hours and hours of practice later, I still am not consistant with b112->212. Any possible tips? or do I just need hours of more practice.

 

[Xstatic]

Hours and hours and hours of practice later, I still am not consistant with b112->212. Any possible tips? or do I just need hours of more practice.

I can hit the 212 combos 95% of the time offline (as m2dave said we should be able to), but I am not confident with it at all. The combo is just wonky sometimes. The times it drops for me are times when I expect it to hit... it's weird.

Try out b112, b112, d1~upball. Even online in bad connections, I can hit this combo without much trouble. 35% with a jump-in, 31% without.

 

[D.Barrett]

How do you guys feel about the cyrax match up now that Knifes are alot slower than before?

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Hours and hours and hours of practice later, I still am not consistant with b112->212. Any possible tips? or do I just need hours of more practice.

Offline this kombo just takes patience. Input the dash as your b1-1-2 chain is coming to an end, but don't start the 2-1-2 chain until your dash completes. The timing is a little weird but you should get the hang of it. The kombo can still be done online but it's not very reliable. Xstatic listed a few other options that might be better-suited for online play. My personal favorite is f3-b2, dash, 212, dash, b1-2-Upball. I can't remember the exact damage but it's up there. It also hit's low and high and it's easier to chain into the 212 that way. If you do it from a JP starter it does 34% damage and hits low, medium, and high, making it very difficult to deal with.

 

[M2Dave]

Added vs. Shang Tsung strategy by D.Barrett. This is not a one man project. Add your own strategies by private messaging me. Just please test off-line before you state something as a fact. We do not want to spread misinformation to new players.

 

[John Diablo]

yesterday I played with a skilled noob saibot (the first one for months lol), and Itried to break his defences doing downward kanoball and knives, but I've lost several times because I couldn't enter easily with combos. what should I do to put pression on noob saibot?

 

[D.Barrett]

yesterday I played with a skilled noob saibot (the first one for months lol), and Itried to break his defences doing downward kanoball and knives, but I've lost several times because I couldn't enter easily with combos. what should I do to put pression on noob saibot?

tHe Noob Saibot match up is tough, after playing hitoshura long enough i think ive got it down. Its either a 5:5 or 6:4 in kano's favor. You just need to be patient and dash block till you get him in the corner. Even though noob excels in the corner. Kano excels just as well. He has no options that will hurt you from you keeping him in the corner, and if he switches the sides and puts you in the corner use your dash D+3 to get out. None of his pokes will be fast enough to stop you from pushing your way out of the corner. Best thing to do is look for your instant air ball opertunities and combo when you bait his up kicks, or jump a baited shadow charge. Otherwise dont force yourself inside, because you will eat a combo in return. Save your meter for x-ray, or breakers in the corner. Otherwise you can try some trades with EX Knifes when you can tell the extra damage will kill him.

 

[John Diablo]

in these days I played with many reptiles, and I've found that the best strategy is to throw knives repeatedly to stop their reckless dash dash dash. when they understand that running is useless, they will make errors (jump ins) and random acid bubbles.at this time, kano has to push them to the corner doing the downward kanoball, and then, corner rape. anyway, beware the acid slide, kano has to down block on reaction, and punish with full combo (obviously lol).

on the other hand, I have a big big problem with johnny cage: how can I counter when he presses me in the closest distance? I can't do anything but block

 

[TimTim]

Just picked up kano just for the fuck of it and lol I'm lovin it. Its just a huge pain in the ass beating subs. KL isn't an issue but how NightWolf a bad matchup?

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

how does everyone punish Mileena's roll? i've been doing
b1 b112 dash d1 upball for 22%
but playing with variations and getting interesting stuff.

f4 upball for 19%
33 upball for 19%
b2f1 upball for 21%
b1 b1 b112 dash d1 upball for 23%
b1 212 b12 upball for 24%

most i've been able to get meterlessly is
b1 212 212 b1 upball for 25%.

spending meter, you can do
b1 f12 knife forward ball for 27%
but the timing is a bit tough.

 

[Feel_The_Byrne]

I've always used f1-212-b12(upball) and it does like 22 or 23 % I think. I've actually never tried it (and can't atm) but if your opponent is in the corner try f4-212-212-b12(upball) not saying this combo will work the idea just popped into my head. If it doesn't work maybe try a njp before the combo and it might work.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

how does everyone punish Mileena's roll? i've been doing
b1 b112 dash d1 upball for 22%
but playing with variations and getting interesting stuff.

f4 upball for 19%
33 upball for 19%
b2f1 upball for 21%
b1 b1 b112 dash d1 upball for 23%
b1 212 b12 upball for 24%

most i've been able to get meterlessly is
b1 212 212 b1 upball for 25%.

spending meter, you can do
b1 f12 knife forward ball for 27%
but the timing is a bit tough.

Is it better to have her close to you... or away?

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

ideally, close, but mileena is a pretty bad matchup for kano either way. d4 ruins upball and she can punish knives on reaction with teleport kick.

 

[Full Boat]

ideally, close, but mileena is a pretty bad matchup for kano either way. d4 ruins upball and she can punish knives on reaction with teleport kick.

I'm pretty sure straight ball hits a Mileena d4 outside of her d4 range. If she's doing d4 as a keep away move past its range, or does 2 d4s in a row on your block(which pushes you away), you can do a straight ball.

 

[Feel_The_Byrne]

I'm pretty sure straight ball hits a Mileena d4 outside of her d4 range. If she's doing d4 as a keep away move past its range, or does 2 d4s in a row on your block(which pushes you away), you can do a straight ball.

It does, it also beats her roll most of the time.

 

[Bleys]

Been running Jade and Kenshi against Kano, too.

Probably a 5-5 Jade v Kano. Hard to zone with the boomerangs due to slow start up (but it is possible, since they pretty much sabotage most characters' wake up game with enhanced.), and the only good way to get close is the shadow glow thingy. It's possible to dash in and block, but that accepts a lot of chip and builds up good meter for Kano, and simply ducking the knife leads to a simple mind game of "is a knife coming next, or is it going to be a ball?" because you can't duck the horizontal ball. But the glow and armored moves makes the matchup survivable from Jade's side. It was fun to play.

6-4 Kenshi's favor. Pretty much the same rules as Nightwolf since the knives can be reflected. Kano has to get in on Kenshi since he outzones him, and that's where Kenshi is at his strongest. Plus the punish on blocked balls is killer with this guy.

 

[-Deadman-]

I'm curious how you guys handle the Noob matchup. I played 2 good Noobs back to back in ranked and got shut down.
After I make my way through the crowd of shadows running at me, I usually try to space a max distance sweep to shift the momentum, but somehow upshadow stuffed my sweep at max distance every time. Tried straightball over slide shadow and that only worked once. Can't zone him, can't find a window to get in. What do?

 

[NKZero]

I'm curious how you guys handle the Noob matchup. I played 2 good Noobs back to back in ranked and got shut down.
After I make my way through the crowd of shadows running at me, I usually try to space a max distance sweep to shift the momentum, but somehow upshadow stuffed my sweep at max distance every time. Tried straightball over slide shadow and that only worked once. Can't zone him, can't find a window to get in. What do?

The most important thing is baiting the up knee. You want to get in, but to do it somewhat safely, you have to find the right opening. By jumping in the air sometimes a Noob player may anticipate the down ball. In any case, Noob players will spam the up knee to stuff your jump attempt. Space the jump out of up knee range, D4 him (has great range even if it requires a quick dash in) and then you have advantage. This allows you do get in and do business.

Unfortunately Noob causes problems for Kano so this is a pretty tough match. Kano (who doesn't lose many zoning battles) definitely loses this one. Spacing is key here and then getting in and staying in. I'm curious to know whether you can punish a shadow slide or shadow tackle with a Kano ball? That would be interesting. Also don't be afraid to throw the occasional knife around jump-in range. This is when Noob players panic because an opponent is slowly closing in on them...

 

[-Deadman-]

I'm curious to know whether you can punish a shadow slide or shadow tackle with a Kano ball? That would be interesting.

If you block running man, he can fire another before kanoball connects. The possibility of using Ex Kanoball is there, but I don't trust myself trying that on reaction just yet. I've 'Balled over slide shadow from jump distance and further, but Ive been stuffed by its startup before, so I believe its hitbox shrinks as it crosses sweep distance or a little before.