"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[AA25Mamba]

That's a video showing a few teeth resets that we all know can work from D2. I worked them so they're a bit easier without having to hit the 2 before the teeth explode. These resets do the exact same damage as the ones with a 2 before the flower acid.

First reset: J2, 32, MB RLG, B3, D2, Far teeth, acid flower, J2, 32, acid flower. The first part does 37% and the second does 30 for a total of 67% damage.

Second Reset: J2, 32, MB RLG, B3, D2, far teeth, acid flower, B3, J2, 32, acid flower. The first does 37 again, the second does 33 for a total of 70% damage.

Third Reset: J2, 32, MB RLG, B3, D2, Far Teeth, Acid flower, B3, J2, 32, crowbar. The first does 37 and the second 32 for 69% damage.

I also reworked one to end with the crowbar. The first can be seen in the video above. Here's one that meter burns the crowbar for more damage:

J2, 32, MB RLG, B3, D2, Far Teeth, Acid Flower, B3, J2, 32, MB Crowbar. First part does 37 and the second 35 for a total of 72% damage.

Again, these are just forms of the already known resets. I was having a hard time hitting the 2, acid flower before the teeth blew up so I just dropped the 2 and went into the acid flower. This is much easier in online play and does not sacrifice damage.

 

[MetaSkipper]

So, what do we do if they block the teeth reset? Any overheads or such?

 

[AA25Mamba]

So, what do we do if they block the teeth reset? Any overheads or such?

You have a small window to dash or jump in with an overhead. The window in these resets seem to be real small for them to block. Of course the CPU in training blocks it if you put them to the right setting, but most people that don't know don't block it and some don't have the reaction speed to block it. These have proven effective to me.

 

[Bolton]

Anyone notice that fighting flying characters is weird? I just faced a Sinestro and I could not connect a ji3, b1 that should work on everyone. There was also one other weird thing I encountered fighting a Raven but I can't remember what it was.

 

[laudanum09]

Anyone notice that fighting flying characters is weird? I just faced a Sinestro and I could not connect a ji3, b1 that should work on everyone. There was also one other weird thing I encountered fighting a Raven but I can't remember what it was.

Training mode is your friend.

I am too but only if your first name is Michael.

 

[Bolton]

Training mode is your friend.

I am too but only if your first name is Michael.

Too bad, I was hoping for at least one friend. But yeah, I was just wondering if that was worth looking into. It probably is the case but I'll see for myself when I have the time.

 

[Suiname]

So were there any other Joker players at UFGT this weekend? I did OK in pools, lost to a Batman who won my pool, beat 3 other players and then lost to a guy who played Bane first which I blew up, then he switched to Green Lantern and pretty much dominated me the first match and beat me in a close 2nd match. GL matchup seems tough to me, I am always trying to jump with joker since j2/j3 is really good for getting pressure, and that just leads to me getting lifted for massive damage.

 

[Cat]

So were there any other Joker players at UFGT this weekend? I did OK in pools, lost to a Batman who won my pool, beat 3 other players and then lost to a guy who played Bane first which I blew up, then he switched to Green Lantern and pretty much dominated me the first match and beat me in a close 2nd match. GL matchup seems tough to me, I am always trying to jump with joker since j2/j3 is really good for getting pressure, and that just leads to me getting lifted for massive damage.

Dashing in is your friend.

 

[Suiname]

Dashing in is your friend.

True dat.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I didn't want to make a separate thread for this unless the discussion picks up.

The combos and teeth resets are all fine and dandy, but how does everyone play Joker? How do you control space and get in on characters? Do you use teeth to control space? Do you use the gun dash cancel to advance forward? What stings do you punish with?

 

[FixdSwine]

113 String for -8, 212 string for -11, and 32* for -15. Every one of these can be combo'd before that last hit for RLG MB

Edit: Dafuq, how did I completely misinterpret the last question. But these are Joker's punishment list anyhow.

 

[laudanum09]

113 String for -8, 212 string for -11, and 32* for -15. Every one of these can be combo'd before that last hit for RLG MB

Edit: Dafuq, how did I completely misinterpret the last question. But these are Joker's punishment list anyhow.

F.2, 3 IMO is his best overall option. Better reach than 113 and 212 and faster than 32. Of course it will be situational where 32 is easy and guaranteed but against like DS's sword spin, I'd use f.2,3 since it will consistently punish from ranges that 113 and 212 cant and make up for you reactions if you punish a little later, in which case 32 would get blocked.

 

[Cat]

I didn't want to make a separate thread for this unless the discussion picks up.

The combos and teeth resets are all fine and dandy, but how does everyone play Joker? How do you control space and get in on characters? Do you use teeth to control space? Do you use the gun dash cancel to advance forward? What stings do you punish with?

Watch my match videos on the match up thread I made. You can get a idea on how I play joker.

 

[AA25Mamba]

Watch my match videos on the match up thread I made. You can get a idea on how I play joker.

I watched them all the other day. I like how you throw a set of teeth out at different ranges to stop opponent's progress forward. It reminds me of Sub-Zero's ice clone to an extent. I've been trying to use a set of close teeth to stop opponents at the right range for a jump in.

I'm using the F23 for punishes, I didn't know you could cancel it to a MB RLG. My focus at the moment is working on taking opponents to the corners and setting up some 50/50 options with teeth.

 

[Cat]

I watched them all the other day. I like how you throw a set of teeth out at different ranges to stop opponent's progress forward. It reminds me of Sub-Zero's ice clone to an extent. I've been trying to use a set of close teeth to stop opponents at the right range for a jump in.

I'm using the F23 for punishes, I didn't know you could cancel it to a MB RLG. My focus at the moment is working on taking opponents to the corners and setting up some 50/50 options with teeth.

Yeah I try to set up ppl to make mistakes. Throwing teeth (far version) out at jump distance encourages a lot of players to jump in on you since the far teeth is under them or a lil behind them. They see it at as a chance to get in for free while avoiding the teeth.
This is when you pushblock the jump in attack (jump in attacks can be pushed blocked).
Or if they dash in. Try to punish the dash in with 11 or d1 into flower.

You have to really get the distance down on where and when to throw out teeth from a safe distance where you can block their advances and punish them for it.

Hope this helps. Part if my video guide I'm working on

 

[AA25Mamba]

Yeah I try to set up ppl to make mistakes. Throwing teeth (far version) out at jump distance encourages a lot of players to jump in on you since the far teeth is under them or a lil behind them. They see it at as a chance to get in for free while avoiding the teeth.
This is when you pushblock the jump in attack (jump in attacks can be pushed blocked).
Or if they dash in. Try to punish the dash in with 11 or d1 into flower.

You have to really get the distance down on where and when to throw out teeth from a safe distance where you can block their advances and punish them for it.

Hope this helps. Part if my video guide I'm working on

It definitely helps. Knowing the distance of the opponent to throw out the right teeth can be a lifesaver. I can't tell you how many times I've had a combo started on me only to have teeth explode and save me.

I'll have to use that pushblock strategy. I always forget about using it. How close are you with that guide?

 

[Cat]

It definitely helps. Knowing the distance of the opponent to throw out the right teeth can be a lifesaver. I can't tell you how many times I've had a combo started on me only to have teeth explode and save me.

I'll have to use that pushblock strategy. I always forget about using it. How close are you with that guide?

Yeah push blocking someone into a teeth can really help turn the tide of a match as well as put fear into your opponent and having them think twice about putting pressure on you when they are teeth in play. This will then open up for you to go in on them as they just sit and block teeth or try to back dash out or jump back which allows you to set up gun shots or dash ins for pressure. Even sweep punishes at some distances for backdashes

I been pretty busy as well as coming up with the most joker stuff I can for the guide. Gonna work on it a lot today.

 

[AA25Mamba]

Yeah push blocking someone into a teeth can really help turn the tide of a match as well as put fear into your opponent and having them think twice about putting pressure on you when they are teeth in play. This will then open up for you to go in on them as they just sit and block teeth or try to back dash out or jump back which allows you to set up gun shots or dash ins for pressure. Even sweep punishes at some distances for backdashes

I been pretty busy as well as coming up with the most joker stuff I can for the guide. Gonna work on it a lot today.

I have to start doing that then. I was going to ask about a sweep. Do you use it a lot or just from maximum distance? I like to use B13 a lot for a low.

That'll be awesome. I can't wait to see it.

 

[Kira7154]

Not sure where to put this comment but Cat I watched your YouTube match vs Starcharger and I just wanted to say how impressed I am by your Joker. You raised your game even higher than previous vids I've seen sir. Thanks for all the Joker tech you've found. Just had to give a shout out finally.

 

[Jack White]

All these buff suggestions have me thinking... Is there really any hope for The Joker? I mean, let's be serious for one second here. All the best characters in the game have a combination of these traits:

*Ways to convert high damage off a reliable low.
*Ways to convert high damage off a reliable overhead.
*An answer to keepaway and heavy zoning.
*Half decent meterless damage.

The Joker has none of these things and will likely never get them. He has no moves that help him get in, has terrible overheads, lows that can't lead to high damage (other than the teeth which are gimmicks everywhere but in the corner), and he's weak without meter.

So lets say they fix the holes in Joker's f232 and 212 strings and buff his trait to acceptable levels, would he be any good then? I doubt it since he's still missing every important aspect that makes a character a threat.

Catwoman got an extra unnecessary overhead for no reason in a recent patch, would it be too much to ask for Joker to have his f2 be an overhead and to have his b2 become much faster as compensation? And how about b1 being able to combo into RLG too? Batman can get over 30% meterless off a low, how bad would it be really if Joker had a way to get that much damage but only with meter?

Just sharing some thoughts. The situation just seems pretty hopeless for us Joker mains.

 

[FixdSwine]

All these buff suggestions have me thinking... Is there really any hope for The Joker? I mean, let's be serious for one second here. All the best characters in the game have a combination of these traits:

*Ways to convert high damage off a reliable low.
*Ways to convert high damage off a reliable overhead.
*An answer to keepaway and heavy zoning.
*Half decent meterless damage.

The Joker has none of these things and will likely never get them. He has no moves that help him get in, has terrible overheads, lows that can't lead to high damage (other than the teeth which are gimmicks everywhere but in the corner), and he's weak without meter.

So lets say they fix the holes in Joker's f232 and 212 strings and buff his trait to acceptable levels, would he be any good then? I doubt it since he's still missing every important aspect that makes a character a threat.

Catwoman got an extra unnecessary overhead for no reason in a recent patch, would it be too much to ask for Joker to have his f2 be an overhead and to have his b2 become much faster as compensation? And how about b1 being able to combo into RLG too? Batman can get over 30% meterless off a low, how bad would it be really if Joker had a way to get that much damage but only with meter?

Just sharing some thoughts. The situation just seems pretty hopeless for us Joker mains.

Pretty much, many chars have a trait that is either immediatly usefull, or have a use after they are charged. Only Cyborg's trait is worse than joker's.
However, while joker does weak meterless damage, his RLG combos are overwhelming, doing an easy 39% on its own, and having the option be a frame trap with teeths.

 

[Jack White]

Pretty much, many chars have a trait that is either immediatly usefull, or have a use after they are charged. Only Cyborg's trait is worse than joker's.
However, while joker does weak meterless damage, his RLG combos are overwhelming, doing an easy 39% on its own, and having the option be a frame trap with teeths.

RLG combos are only about average damage for something that's meterburned. The teeth mix ups can be completely avoided with a simple back dash and the punishes for those are minimal at best.

 

[Cat]

All these buff suggestions have me thinking... Is there really any hope for The Joker? I mean, let's be serious for one second here. All the best characters in the game have a combination of these traits:

*Ways to convert high damage off a reliable low.
*Ways to convert high damage off a reliable overhead.
*An answer to keepaway and heavy zoning.
*Half decent meterless damage.

The Joker has none of these things and will likely never get them. He has no moves that help him get in, has terrible overheads, lows that can't lead to high damage (other than the teeth which are gimmicks everywhere but in the corner), and he's weak without meter.

So lets say they fix the holes in Joker's f232 and 212 strings and buff his trait to acceptable levels, would he be any good then? I doubt it since he's still missing every important aspect that makes a character a threat.

Catwoman got an extra unnecessary overhead for no reason in a recent patch, would it be too much to ask for Joker to have his f2 be an overhead and to have his b2 become much faster as compensation? And how about b1 being able to combo into RLG too? Batman can get over 30% meterless off a low, how bad would it be really if Joker had a way to get that much damage but only with meter?

Just sharing some thoughts. The situation just seems pretty hopeless for us Joker mains.

superman does not have the first 2

Joker is more solid than some ppl give him credit for... only problem is, hes not easy to pick up derp derp. like some chars in the game.. and what sucks is that most of the top tier are so easy to pick up and use..
joker takes time.. but i think with time and the needed trait buff.. he would be solid

 

[Jack White]

superman does not have the first 2

Joker is more solid than some ppl give him credit for... only problem is, hes not easy to pick up derp derp. like some chars in the game.. and what sucks is that most of the top tier are so easy to pick up and use..
joker takes time.. but i think with time and the needed trait buff.. he would be solid

Hey thanks for responding. Just this recent tier list and complete lack of Joker usage that has me down. Also things I noticed about the "top" tier characters in this game. The usually have some combination of the helpful stuff I listed and Joker has none of that. But what does he get in return? Teeth traps that only work in the corner against people that know what they're doing, a good j3 and j2, and good range on his moves. I don't know, I don't feel like Joker will ever get a decent amount of representation. Maybe I'm wrong though and it feels like that sometimes when I'm playing online, but at this point I'm losing hope for Joker at a competitive level.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I'm learning Joker, and I'm having a blast. I don't think he's as bad as people say and/or act. He certainly takes time to learn though. He takes some adjusting to get in on zoners, and his meterless combos aren't that damaging, but I like his setups and tools. I really believe the validity of his trait can take his defensive game to another level.