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"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

SunLord5

SunLord5

Dualshock 2 User
What do you guys do vs Superman, Sinestro, Deathstroke, Cyborg and Green Lantern. Cyborg/Green Lanterns keep away game is insane. The rest are all really good at zoning and Joker doesn't have a strong far game compared to them. I think anyone who zones w/ knockdown, and pushes back better than him are his worst matchups. He only has a high hitting projectile that is duckable. Holding his trait button should duck him and make all his high specials hit low/and all his low attacks hit overhead... especially if you can't tell if the teeth are overhead or low. It would make for some 50/50 setups that aren't gimmicky.
 
laudanum09

laudanum09

Darling
Sounds extremely gimmicky to me and pointless because he has no high/low game to exploit with a buff like that. You just low block everything just like you high block everything from him now because b1,3 is more annoying than scary. Trait needs a buff bad though. They can buff him overall to give him better 50/50s in ways that are less ridiculous. Give him another option from b.1 that leads to actual damage. Let 2,1 combo into low RLG or give flower some better properties. It's nice that it ends in a stand reset but we should get more off of it. No pushback on hit so we can mix them up after, MB-able for stun and followup b3, f3 or jump in possibilities. Any one of these would be minor and reasonable.

Also I don't think any of those matchups are worse than 6-4s. You shouldn't be trying to outzone them anyways.
 
SunLord5

SunLord5

Dualshock 2 User
-How about trait releases a tracking version of teeth, same time until explosion as normal teeth except when it explodes its the same as doomsdays earth shake. Trap is placed under opponent from anywhere on screen.

-Ha could stack every time trait is used and be fully removed when you do certain attacks. IDK what but it should last indefinitely until those attacks are performed. Jokers problem is obviously mobility. He has worse mobility than everyone. With his normals his mobility should be high. He's got short range and low mobility. He needs to have either higher mobility or higher normal range in his trait. Higher mobility would be easier for nrs to implement.


How are those matches 6-4's? Superman lasers are broken against him.
 
lorenzo

lorenzo

Noob
I like Joker's trait, all I ask is to either be able to hold the Ha for the whole match, able to parry jump in, be able to parry through block stunt, or be able to hold the counter and have no recovery.

Green lantern is an even matchup on my opinion and Joker wins the sinestro matchup. Superman, Deathstroke are probably 6-4 and cyborg is a weird matchup. I don't have much experience with that matchup, but so far I haven't had much difficulty with it. Keep in mind, I haven't play good one that has consistent instant fireballs.

Superman laser is really punishable. That's not the issue of the matchup. What makes the matchup hard is his rushdown and frame traps. Just shoot him when he shoots laser.

Joker damage and mixup game would be better if he could combo his b1 to gas canister. Joker is a great character he just needs a really small tweak.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
lorenzo said:
I like Joker's trait, all I ask is to either be able to hold the Ha for the whole match, able to parry jump in, be able to parry through block stunt, or be able to hold the counter and have no recovery.

Green lantern is an even matchup on my opinion and Joker wins the sinestro matchup. Superman, Deathstroke are probably 6-4 and cyborg is a weird matchup. I don't have much experience with that matchup, but so far I haven't had much difficulty with it. Keep in mind, I haven't play good one that has consistent instant fireballs.

Superman laser is really punishable. That's not the issue of the matchup. What makes the matchup hard is his rushdown and frame traps. Just shoot him when he shoots laser.

Joker damage and mixup game would be better if he could combo his b1 to gas canister. Joker is a great character he just needs a really small tweak.
Click to expand...
lasers arent punishable, inexperienced supermen that dont do them instantly are.

GL is not even at all, he glues you to the ground and flat out outfootsies and outzones you.
 
Cat

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
My trait buff suggestions.
Either of these would help joker have a actual trait button

• his Ha's last the entire round or match

•he is able to stack Ha's and use them when he chooses with a longer lasting time.

•his HA stacks and lets him MB teeth to make it unblockable. When he uses it. The HA goes away of course

• his HA stacks and lets him MB flower blossom that stuns opponent for a jump in combo or b3. When used HA goes away

•his HA stacks and when doing combo and pressing trait with a HA stacked , makes him do more damage. This will help him do more meter less damage mid screen.

Also his trait damage should get a buff
Doing 9% off a standing parry

And only 2%!!!!! Off a low parry is fucking stupid! Why risk a parry for that damage and a weak buff that last 4 seconds against chars than can hit you for more than 50% mid screen (looks at black Adam and superman )
 
laudanum09

laudanum09

Darling
The HaHaHas obviously need fixing but the problem imo is the parry itself. Why do we have to risk so much to get a buff even if that buff is relatively good? You can make the Has as good a buff as they get in the game but we still won't see it used often if the only way you can get them is to take a huge risk.
 
AceOfKnaves

AceOfKnaves

Hallucin8
Cat said:
My trait buff suggestions.
Either of these would help joker have a actual trait button

• his Ha's last the entire round or match

•he is able to stack Ha's and use them when he chooses with a longer lasting time.

•his HA stacks and lets him MB teeth to make it unblockable. When he uses it. The HA goes away of course

• his HA stacks and lets him MB flower blossom that stuns opponent for a jump in combo or b3. When used HA goes away

•his HA stacks and when doing combo and pressing trait with a HA stacked , makes him do more damage. This will help him do more meter less damage mid screen.

Also his trait damage should get a buff
Doing 9% off a standing parry

And only 2%!!!!! Off a low parry is fucking stupid! Why risk a parry for that damage and a weak buff that last 4 seconds against chars than can hit you for more than 50% mid screen (looks at black Adam and superman )
Click to expand...
......My vote is for unblockable teeth for a successful read, would also love to parry projectiles maybe similar to ravens projectile absorption, but in this case gain a Ha and throw a pie, instead of gaining meter and throwing energy.
 
Reactions: Cat
laudanum09

laudanum09

Darling
that'd be cool Ace. I think buffs besides speed and jump is needed to make a 2 frame parry worth it. I like the idea of just being able to MB flower regardless, I don't think that's OP at all, just giving him more combo options. Unblockable teeth would be great since youd only get a max of three per game or so anyways and thats AT MOST and unlikely. If the parry itself doesnt change he needs a huge buff to the benefits he gets from landing one.
 
Octakel

Octakel

Puddin
To be honest, i only use the parry vs bane and doomsday. I really like the joker, but i get the feeling that he is just an unfinished character. His db1 is such a bad move with huge recovery. I get blown up so much just by using it by accident when i do a crossup.
It would be great if they buff his range game with maybe less recovery on the db1 and db2.
Also there are not much strings where you can covert it into a damaging combo (looking at batman, superman or aquaman)
I know the focus of jokers gameplay is more on setting up a vortex. But there a not many possibilities for that. :/
 
lorenzo

lorenzo

Noob
Qwark28 said:
lasers arent punishable, inexperienced supermen that dont do them instantly are.

GL is not even at all, he glues you to the ground and flat out outfootsies and outzones you.
Click to expand...
Laser have slow startup, and air laser is punishable mid screen on block. I'm not taking that is a good move, but is still punishable. Now if he mb, then he can't be punish. Can you explain how green lantern is not even. Full screen Joker can stop all of his ground move, and his only good option is to jump and shoot. You can dash twice if he does that and punish him, or hold the gun and shoot.

So if you have the health lead he has to get in. Green Lantern wins the midscreen battle, but as soon as the lantern might gets whiff or block he will get knockdown, combo punish, or super. Most of green lantern string can be parry and punish. He can't successfully wake up on joker.

In the other hand when green lantern has the health advantage, joker has to take risks and puts green lantern in the winning side of the matchup. Just don't jump midscreen, and use an armor move to apply pressure to nullify random lantern might.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
lorenzo said:
Laser have slow startup, and air laser is punishable mid screen on block. I'm not taking that is a good move, but is still punishable. Now if he mb, then he can't be punish. Can you explain how green lantern is not even. Full screen Joker can stop all of his ground move, and his only good option is to jump and shoot. You can dash twice if he does that and punish him, or hold the gun and shoot.

So if you have the health lead he has to get in. Green Lantern wins the midscreen battle, but as soon as the lantern might gets whiff or block he will get knockdown, combo punish, or super. Most of green lantern string can be parry and punish. He can't successfully wake up on joker.

In the other hand when green lantern has the health advantage, joker has to take risks and puts green lantern in the winning side of the matchup. Just don't jump midscreen, and use an armor move to apply pressure to nullify random lantern might.
Click to expand...
instant or almost instant air eye lasers can not be punished. I've tested this offline.

about gl

you cant dash twice or reaction and he can very easily bait that and punish you.

good lanterns wont be throwing out random lifts and joker can barely punish lift with anything other than gunshot if its not point blank or almost.

B1 can be cancelled into many things like minigun and ex oas rocket which is very + on block and the parry can be baited. It gives out 9 damage vs full combo

GL has an easier time getting the lead back and keeping it than joker.
 
lorenzo

lorenzo

Noob
Midscreen Joker is able land a combo or if he is far for the combo he can sweep. Rocket cancel has a gap, the minigun puts me full far away. So he can't apply pressure.
 
laudanum09

laudanum09

Darling
GL vs Joker isn't good for Joker. Not terrible probably a 6-4. Manageable.

You can punish blocked lift with a jump in 2. You time it almost like an instant overhead. Hit it on the way up not down and you can link into a ground chain after more akin to Street Fighter. You definitely do not have to be point blank to punish blocked lift.
 
SunLord5

SunLord5

Dualshock 2 User
Maybe parry has a hidden command to it that isn't in the moves list. Raven has two hidden special moves :joker:.
 
laudanum09

laudanum09

Darling
They can't buff Sinestro's parry without touching Joker's...that would be...umm...almost as world ending as the nerf of DS! fingers crossed on getting at least a HA duration buff tomorrow.
 
smileforme

smileforme

Noob
how can you guys say GL is a bad matchup.. that character is so easy to read.. jokers sweep folllowing up with a crossup combo + teethsetup (so he cant wakeup with his grab to do a combo) wins the match..upclose he got nothing on the joker and fullscreen the gun outplays his zoning game.. only ones i have trouble with is doomsday.. thats his worst matchup
 
Gilbagz

Gilbagz

Joker here~
smileforme said:
how can you guys say GL is a bad matchup.. that character is so easy to read.. jokers sweep folllowing up with a crossup combo + teethsetup (so he cant wakeup with his grab to do a combo) wins the match..upclose he got nothing on the joker and fullscreen the gun outplays his zoning game.. only ones i have trouble with is doomsday.. thats his worst matchup
Click to expand...
Sweep is punishable by full combo and green lanterns b1 is as fast as jokers, combos and has like double his range. But alot of other strings grant a hard knock down as well so you get a lot of teeth set ups.
 
SunLord5

SunLord5

Dualshock 2 User
Wakeup Lanterns Might will beat that... from the start of match you can do sweep medium teeth into a combo if they get agressive though.
 
Jack White

Jack White

The Clown Prince of Crime
Joker buffs are in...

Joker
  • Increased Joker’s Wild Character Power HA! duration to 9 seconds (from 6 seconds).
  • Increased Joker’s Wild Character Power Parry Damage to 11%
  • Slightly reduced the start-up frames for Laughing Gas (Down, Forward + 1) and Rolling Laughing Gas (Down, Forward + 2) to allow it to combo consistently on all opponents.
 
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