Match-Up Discussion - Swarm Queen Who are you struggling with

[x TeeJay o]

Kenshi is hard because you have to leran how to get around his zoning. Basically running forward and d4 is amazing because it goes under his spirit attack thing, and it has an insane hit range. His high spirit attack must be blocked high, then you can jump if you want to avoid his other spirit attack, and then run forward d4. Very effective. Once you're in, just go to town because his close game sucks. You need to be able to tech A LOT of throws because that's they're biggest "get off" tool. Also every time he pokes, counter poke, because often they poke and then throw.

I usually dash forward and then neutral duck to avoid the high one then make a read on the overhead. Saves meter for my cancels . But damn it's so annoying to deal with. Also, ferra torr and sub zero is another I can't grasp my head around.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Ferra Torr I've never played a good one. Sub zero has a broken cross over punch and d3, but with that said you can punish slide and a large majority of his specials. You can punish his ice clone on read with puddle, If in corner you can d3 or d4 to hit sub's clone pressure. So that shouldn't be a problem. What is annoying as fuck is his 50/50 on hit from his j2 and his fast moves that allow for easy stagger strings. My advice would be to control the pace of the game by walking back a lot. You can duck under ice ball, you can punish his clone on read with puddle, force him to run into you and you can bait the jump in (punish with d2) or punish with f11. Very footsi oriented matchup.

 

[iMileena]

This netcode

 

[Trixdee]

Hey guys! I just started playing MKX and I really wanted to play D'Vorah. My cousin is playing Cryomancer Sub-Zero and I'm really struggling with this cause of the speed of his slide and his speed over all.

Is this a BAD match up or just feels bad cause I am just learning and he's good at Sub-Zero?

 

[x TeeJay o]

Hey guys! I just started playing MKX and I really wanted to play D'Vorah. My cousin is playing Cryomancer Sub-Zero and I'm really struggling with this cause of the speed of his slide and his speed over all.

Is this a BAD match up or just feels bad cause I am just learning and he's good at Sub-Zero?

It's not a bad match up I think it's even. Sub zero is tough because he has an overhead and low that both lead into 43%. I would block low and react to the overhead he has to start. What are u struggling with specifically ?

 

[Trixdee]

What are u struggling with specifically ?

The damn slide! Can't throw the bug or do the swarm thing. It feels like it is pretty fast.

 

[Blewdew]

The damn slide! Can't throw the bug or do the swarm thing. It feels like it is pretty fast.

To be honest I don't think cryo sub is a great matchup as well but I think it's even. I even think grandmaster sub is a better matchup for dvorah than cryo.

as @MrIMainGirls said block low in general. If you see the overhead coming Block high and use f11 to start your offensive. Is subs b2 punishable? I have something in mind that it is.

Also watch out for cross jumps to block them high. After his buff everyone ends combos with f421+3,Hammer,Cross Jump it's anoying as fuck.

 

[SaJa]

Ronin Takeda is a nightmare to me. Any advise ?

 

[Trixdee]

Ronin Takeda is a nightmare to me. Any advise ?

idk O_O I'm still pretty new to it, Takeda looks pretty fast. Just got to be patient and block a lot I guess.

 

[Blewdew]

Ronin Takeda is a nightmare to me. Any advise ?

What do you struggle with against him? I only played a few ronins and didn't think it was too bad of a matchup on the other side I didn't know how good my opponents were so some Information would be good.

Vs shirai ryu I can give some advice I have extremely strong shirai ryu practise partners and they can be a nightmare as well lol

 

[SaJa]

What do you struggle with against him? I only played a few ronins and didn't think it was too bad of a matchup on the other side I didn't know how good my opponents were so some Information would be good.

Vs shirai ryu I can give some advice I have extremely strong shirai ryu practise partners and they can be a nightmare as well lol

Ronin is pretty hard. It has better zoning, better footsy, armors. :/

 

[Blewdew]

Ronin is pretty hard. It has better zoning, better footsy, armors. :/

Seems like I need to find s ronin player to kick my ass lol I really don't have any matchup experience with him in this case. How fast is his projectile? Mid or high?

 

[Blewdew]

Oh boy I'm so struggling against tempest kung lao. Whenever things turn around and kung lao gets me in a combo I just don't know what to do. anti-air him is hard enough because his j1 is so stupid sometimes it works and sometimes he opens me up. Whiff punishing with f22 is also Not working at all because the range of j1 feels like fucking half screen. And whenever I'm in this 112124 ex,db1 nonsense I really have no idea to get out of that. Ex ovi is too slow and gets broken and I feel like it's my only Option though

 

[tatterbug4]

Practice the b1 cancel combos enough and you'll get them out pretty consistently online. I grinded them out to for a week.

I struggle with fighting mournful and royal storm Kitana some.
Same goes for Kung Lao (tempest) and Tanya (kobu jutsu)

Other than that I feel she goes pretty even or wins every other MU.

 

[tatterbug4]

Practice the b1 cancel combos enough and you'll get them out pretty consistently online. I grinded them out to for a week.

I struggle with fighting mournful and royal storm Kitana some.
Same goes for Kung Lao (tempest) and Tanya (kobu jutsu)

Other than that I feel she goes pretty even or wins every other MU.

When fighting Kung Lao it may be a good idea to try to f42. I belive it goes under his hat if I remember correctly. Of course it can be stuffed if your opponent is smart but still.

Your d4 hits just outside his hat range too.

 

[Blewdew]

I struggle with fighting mournful and royal storm Kitana some.
Same goes for Kung Lao (tempest) and Tanya (kobu jutsu)

Other than that I feel she goes pretty even or wins every other MU.

Yeah kobu tanya is a hard one too.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Oh boy I'm so struggling against tempest kung lao. Whenever things turn around and kung lao gets me in a combo I just don't know what to do. anti-air him is hard enough because his j1 is so stupid sometimes it works and sometimes he opens me up. Whiff punishing with f22 is also Not working at all because the range of j1 feels like fucking half screen. And whenever I'm in this 112124 ex,db1 nonsense I really have no idea to get out of that. Ex ovi is too slow and gets broken and I feel like it's my only Option though

So if you're looking to do a cheap anti air you can always back dash when he jumps in. If you have very good reactions, Kung Lao has a high jump so you can sprint and d2 to counter. This matchup is definitely losing because the spacing is so hard to keep against him.

Get a dummy and record him with 112124 pressure, just you can see the small animation stutters when he staggers the strings. D2 isn't a bad idea because it'll go under his standing one if he staggers it.

 

[Blewdew]

So if you're looking to do a cheap anti air you can always back dash when he jumps in. If you have very good reactions, Kung Lao has a high jump so you can sprint and d2 to counter. This matchup is definitely losing because the spacing is so hard to keep against him.

Get a dummy and record him with 112124 pressure, just you can see the small animation stutters when he staggers the strings. D2 isn't a bad idea because it'll go under his standing one if he staggers it.

Yeah I'm always trying to aa with d2 I don't think anything beside that Works. I'll try the Running under him seems like a good plan. For backdashes I definitely have to work on my reactions lol.

I did that with a dummy when I learned the MU with cassie and ex flipkick works quite good. When he tries to go for 112124,ex-hat,11,throw can I poke out of the 11 as well? I'll try some things out in the lab I'm tired of getting cornertrapped by him.

Thanks for the advice

 

[BornThroughAshes]

Hey guys. What are peoples' thoughts on the Cassie matchup? I'm honestly considering it might be our worst matchup but I'd like other opinions on this since I'm a scrub

I genuinely believe a good Cassie is invincible in this matchup. Lets break down our options in the neutral:

Poke Game:
Cassie - d1: 7f, d3: 7f, d4: 8f
D'Vorah - d1: 8f, d3: 11f, d4: 9f

Close Range:
Cassie - 2: 6f
D'Vorah - 1: 7f

Footsies:
Cassie: b1 - 11f
D'Vorah - f1 - 12f

Full Screen:
Cassie - ubf1: 11f, EXdf1: 17f
D'Vorah - db1: 47f, EXdf1: 37f

Armor:
Cassie - EX flipkick: 6f, safe on block
D'Vorah: lol

(I am aware that it's not all about the numbers, this is just to give a fuller perspective).

In addition:

• Full Screen, pretty much all our options are shut down, because if the opponent reads the puddle he gets a free punish with run in b1
• Cassie outpokes Dvorah in the neutral, our best bet is to counterpoke (and again we have to be frame perfect to actually get the hit)
• Cassie can get out of our pressure for free with her safe EX flipkick
• Cassie's greater weakness (her gaps) cannot be expolited cause we don't have any good armored options.

I'm not stating as a fact that D'Vorah is doomed against Cassie, I am just stating my own opinion based on my experience and current knowledge. Any input on this by fellow D'Vorah players would be greatly appreciated. How do you handle this matchup?

 

[God Confirm]

H
Cassie outpokes Dvorah in the neutral, our best bet is to counterpoke (and again we have to be frame perfect to actually get the hit)

What does this one mean, what are you doing and what is she doing that you need to be frame perfect with?

 

[BornThroughAshes]

What does this one mean, what are you doing and what is she doing that you need to be frame perfect with?

Cassie's d3 is 7frames and -3 on block. If they mash d3, the second poke will come out on the 11th frame, giving you a 2 frame window to counterpoke with your fastest poke (d1: 8f).

"Being frame perfect" was an exaggeration, but you do have to be on point with your counter poke.

 

[God Confirm]

Cassie's d3 is 7frames and -3 on block. If they mash d3, the second poke will come out on the 11th frame, giving you a 2 frame window to counterpoke.

"Being frame perfect" was an exaggeration, but you do have to be on point with your counter poke.

Well, if shes mashing it it won't be coming out frame perfect giving you free frames as well, it goes both ways. Your execution only has to be as accurate as hers, in fact if you can beat her out which you can you actually have some leeway on execution even if she is frame perfect. Balls in your court on that one, should be easier for you than it is for your opponent.

 

[BornThroughAshes]

Well, if shes mashing it it won't be coming out frame perfect giving you free frames as well, it goes both ways. Your execution only has to be as accurate as hers, in fact if you can beat her out which you can you actually have some leeway on execution even if she is frame perfect. Balls in your court on that one, should be easier for you than it is for your opponent.

Agreed. I'm always talking from an ideal standpoint where both players are frame perfect though. Obviously if she mashes d3 it wont come out that fast and it should be relatively easy to counter poke.

The main point I was trying to make wasn't that she's hard to counterpoke though, it's that she generally beats D'Vorah in the poking game.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Hey guys. What are peoples' thoughts on the Cassie matchup? I'm honestly considering it might be our worst matchup but I'd like other opinions on this since I'm a scrub

I genuinely believe a good Cassie is invincible in this matchup. Lets break down our options in the neutral:

Poke Game:
Cassie - d1: 7f, d3: 7f, d4: 8f
D'Vorah - d1: 8f, d3: 11f, d4: 9f

Close Range:
Cassie - 2: 6f
D'Vorah - 1: 7f

Footsies:
Cassie: b1 - 11f
D'Vorah - f1 - 12f

Full Screen:
Cassie - ubf1: 11f, EXdf1: 17f
D'Vorah - db1: 47f, EXdf1: 37f

Armor:
Cassie - EX flipkick: 6f, safe on block
D'Vorah: lol

(I am aware that it's not all about the numbers, this is just to give a fuller perspective).

In addition:

• Full Screen, pretty much all our options are shut down, because if the opponent reads the puddle he gets a free punish with run in b1
• Cassie outpokes Dvorah in the neutral, our best bet is to counterpoke (and again we have to be frame perfect to actually get the hit)
• Cassie can get out of our pressure for free with her safe EX flipkick
• Cassie's greater weakness (her gaps) cannot be expolited cause we don't have any good armored options.

I'm not stating as a fact that D'Vorah is doomed against Cassie, I am just stating my own opinion based on my experience and current knowledge. Any input on this by fellow D'Vorah players would be greatly appreciated. How do you handle this matchup?

Legit, so the real question is: are you playing online or offline?

Remember we're +10 on F112 WGC, so that's an unarmor-able into d4, standing 2 (+2), and standing 1. So she cannot armor out of pressure for free. I will admit it's harder to make her cancels frame perfect so that she can't get out, but gotta keep that tight.

Here's the other thing: Cassie's ex flip is only safe when she's not near a corner. The Cassie's I play like to keep the spacing with walking backwards and forcing the mistake, if you get Cassie into the corner you can really screw her, you mentioned our disadvantages but here are our advantages:

We out pressure her
We out damage her
We're safer on offense w/o meter.

Cassie's flip is full punishable and we get corner pressure, where all her armor is punishable. Likewise, our f22 is safe on block and leads to a combo, where Cassie's is punishable without meter

In the mid screen id say Cassie has an upper hand, but work her into the corner and D'vorah has an upper hand by far. My opinion is the matchup is 5-5 or slightly in Cassie's advantage, we punish her flip kick hard but she has better spacing. Also I believe her f1 is a high, which we can d4 under. I hope this helps!

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Legit, so the real question is: are you playing online or offline?

Remember we're +10 on F112 WGC, so that's an unarmor-able into d4, standing 2 (+2), and standing 1. So she cannot armor out of pressure for free. I will admit it's harder to make her cancels frame perfect so that she can't get out, but gotta keep that tight.

Here's the other thing: Cassie's ex flip is only safe when she's not near a corner. The Cassie's I play like to keep the spacing with walking backwards and forcing the mistake, if you get Cassie into the corner you can really screw her, you mentioned our disadvantages but here are our advantages:

We out pressure her
We out damage her
We're safer on offense w/o meter.

Cassie's flip is full punishable and we get corner pressure, where all her armor is punishable. Likewise, our f22 is safe on block and leads to a combo, where Cassie's is punishable without meter

In the mid screen id say Cassie has an upper hand, but work her into the corner and D'vorah has an upper hand by far. My opinion is the matchup is 5-5 or slightly in Cassie's advantage, we punish her flip kick hard but she has better spacing. Also I believe her f1 is a high, which we can d4 under. I hope this helps!

Also is our d1 really 8 frames? I thought it was 7.