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Match-Up Discussion - Swarm Queen Who are you struggling with

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
But Kotal Fucking Kahn though... I just don't know the character at all and he's soo irritating. Thanks for the tips Phoenix
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
Reptile and Ermac... how the fuck? Especially Reptile. His insanely quick overheads make it difficult for me. And that fast slide -_- And those stagger strings. And this frekan character :(
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Reptile and Ermac... how the fuck? Especially Reptile. His insanely quick overheads make it difficult for me.
112 punishes for days or to beat their longer startup normals.

Also you can't be afraid to push buttons vs reptile, you'll lose of you try to block too much.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Reptile and Ermac... how the fuck? Especially Reptile. His insanely quick overheads make it difficult for me. And that fast fucking slide -_- And those fucking stagger strings. And this fucking character :(
Reptile: Basically you have to know that after he does a string he will try to armor, so you can b12 to break that. You can punish most of his specials also. The problem is once he gets within his OH/Low range it is practically a 50/50, because they are so fast. Good thing is that range is like right next to you lol. Dont try and jump when he has a forceball, and try and trade forceballs with swarm vortexes.

With Ermac, he is super unsafe when he tries to do the fireball in MoS, so punish him for that. He also cant open you up easily so just keep nlocking until he does a special and you can punish him. I dont have a huge amount of experience with him though, so thats about all I can do for that one.

War God Kotal Khan should theoretically be very easy, but it never is lol. First thing to know is his b14 string(the long range punch one) is punishable. F11 can punish it if you are super tight but a d4 into WGC would work too. Off of his strings he has three options:
1. Do the low sword. This is punishable on block AND hit(you get to wakeup for free)
2. Do the overhead sword. This can be armored, and is technically unsafe but extremely difficult to punish because of pushback. I usually try and d4 or d3 to check him.
3. Do the sword throw projectile. This leaves him super plus and lets him get more pressure.

The thing to remember is all of these options can be armored through, although it is REALLY hard to armor through them all the time and if you do you dont get much off of it with Dvorah. You also cant backdash all the time because the sword throw will get you. So the best thing to do is armor when you can, but also just guess and try and punish.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
Cassie Cage at best 4-6. I spam d1 at the end of every single one of her strings that aren't already punishable (mainly her overhead fucking kick) and nothing came out. I lost every time to her d3. It's complete bull. And he rediculous range on her whiff punish is absurd. and her unpunishable 50/50 game is beyond absurd... and the unpunishable 50/50 game blows up the wakeup.

Yes I know her low is punishable, but holy shit is it hard to block. That low high is tighter than playing against Erron Black
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Cassie Cage at best 4-6. I spam d1 at the end of every single one of her strings that aren't already punishable (mainly her overhead fucking kick) and nothing came out. I lost every time to her d3. It's complete bull. And he rediculous range on her whiff punish is absurd. and her unpunishable 50/50 game is beyond absurd... and the unpunishable 50/50 game blows up the wakeup.

Yes I know her low is punishable, but holy shit is it hard to block. That low high is tighter than playing against Erron Black
You can't whiff anything against her, that much became clear very quickly. I usually try and block until they end with cartwheel and then let me punish. You can d1 the strings too and most of the time at least force her to block. I actually like to try and make her whiff stuff by backdashing, like her low overhead and the d3, that way I can f22 into pressure.

One thing you are right about is she totally blows up wakeups for free. That is her biggest weakness and something you are going to have to deal with. If its Spec Ops Cassie ALWAYS delay wakeup, ALWAYS.
 

Shaazzyam

undefeated online evo champion
her 50/50 is punishabe tho. backdash or ex trident rush the huge ass gap between her last hit of b123.
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Cassie Cage at best 4-6. I spam d1 at the end of every single one of her strings that aren't already punishable (mainly her overhead fucking kick) and nothing came out. I lost every time to her d3. It's complete bull. And he rediculous range on her whiff punish is absurd. and her unpunishable 50/50 game is beyond absurd... and the unpunishable 50/50 game blows up the wakeup.

Yes I know her low is punishable, but holy shit is it hard to block. That low high is tighter than playing against Erron Black
My little brother plays a great Cassie, and imo the matchup is very even in both spec ops and Hollywood.

You only mash d1 after getting hit by a normal nut punch. You can't just toss out f11s to try and catch her if she's constantly pressing buttons, it doesn't end well most of the time. However once you get used to the f112 block string, and are able to perform f22s and b1s while they're still jailed, this matchup gets a lot easier. Her getaway flip is 100% punishable by f11 though, and since we can get 49%+ off of it it hurts a lot. Her f33 is punishable by 112, WC, 212 xx db1, f44, run, b12 throw which is 36%. Her overhead and low starter are punishable on block.

As for the low, just get used to blocking it in the training room. It becomes pretty natural after a little practice. Her d3 is annoying, but you can eat a few then block to try to get her to do a combo starter and then punish it. You can also backdash it if you don't think she anticipates it, but she can catch it with a b1 so be careful.

Neutral is your best friend in this matchup(112 is as well tbh). She has to be in your face, and keeping her out for a while with a solid neutral game using d2/d3/d4 can do some real damage to her and make her do something risky. She can whiff punish those too, but its a lot harder for her to do consistently and she usually has to be waiting for it. Be very careful about using f4, f11, and f22 when in neutral though, because if it whiffs you're gonna eat some damage every time. When in the corner, you can also db1 when you have a small chance to breathe. If the animation gets far enough to the point it comes out she eats it, blocks it, or has to back off so you get a chance at offense. I do not recommend tossing out db1 fullscreen though, because she will be waiting for it and you're gonna eat some big damage again.

This is one matchup where our bad wakeup is heavily exploited, but we have great tools to fight her despite that.

Edit: also, while venomous can't punish as hard with raw damage, you still get to start your offense off the punishes.
 
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KNX

Noob
^ this helps somewhat.

Played a Spec Ops Cassie offline properly for the first time. Getting exposed to those cheap ass 50/50s on knockdown are a real eye opener. I think I just need to practice blocking certain setups. It's not something you can easily overcome on first encounter.

I don't think db1 is viable at any point in this matchup outside of knockdown though. The punish is so free for her at any range. Literally run up b1 every single time. She can play footsies with just that annoying ass b12.

Capitalizing on a successful 50/50 block into max damage punish is key, outside of it, the game is literally don't get knocked down and DON'T FUCKING WHIFF ANYTHING!!!
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
^ this helps somewhat.

Played a Spec Ops Cassie offline properly for the first time. Getting exposed to those cheap ass 50/50s on knockdown are a real eye opener. I think I just need to practice blocking certain setups. It's not something you can easily overcome on first encounter.

I don't think db1 is viable at any point in this matchup outside of knockdown though. The punish is so free for her at any range. Literally run up b1 every single time. She can play footsies with just that annoying ass b12.

Capitalizing on a successful 50/50 block into max damage punish is key, outside of it, the game is literally don't get knocked down and DON'T FUCKING WHIFF ANYTHING!!!
db1 is viable in some situations in the matchup, like sometimes right after you breaker in the corner or she has no stamina, but yeah 99% of the time a good Cassie is gonna punish the shit out of it regardless of her variation if she has stamina and reactions. 112 combos are so good against her too. A lot of the time if she is trying to mix you up, 112 will come out faster than a lot of things she is gonna try to use. That combined with punishes makes her have to be very respectful of you when she's in your face.

Yep whiffing is a death sentence against her, and dropping combos hurts more in this matchup than any other probably lol. Both characters have great ways to fight each other though, which is why I feel it's so even against spec ops and hollywood when you get used to it.
 
I think D'vorah beats hollywood cassie really badly. My game plan is to stay outside of b1 range and poke with d3 and d4, then challenge cassie's b1 with your d1. I use brood mother too. The krawler in the neutral forces cassie to either jump which can be air to aired or uppercutted, or they have to crouch which can be followed up for a 50/50 with f2 and f3. If they have meter, I would respect MB nut punch until you get a solid read on them.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Cassie Cage at best 4-6. I spam d1 at the end of every single one of her strings that aren't already punishable (mainly her overhead fucking kick) and nothing came out. I lost every time to her d3. It's complete bull. And he rediculous range on her whiff punish is absurd. and her unpunishable 50/50 game is beyond absurd... and the unpunishable 50/50 game blows up the wakeup.

Yes I know her low is punishable, but holy shit is it hard to block. That low high is tighter than playing against Erron Black
50/50 is very punishable if it is canceled to flip kick, the only option you probably can't punish is f34 but you only have to worry about that in Hollywood. I think you need to take her into the lab and practice your options after you block it. Regarding the poking, if you are losing out in the poke/counter-poke meta game I would suggest backdashing if your opponent is mashing out d3. You have a great whiff punisher with f11 so find a way to bait something out so you can use it. Showing you can do this in a match successfully will force your opponent to not press buttons and help shift the meta-game to your side.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
50/50 is very punishable if it is canceled to flip kick, the only option you probably can't punish is f34 but you only have to worry about that in Hollywood. I think you need to take her into the lab and practice your options after you block it. Regarding the poking, if you are losing out in the poke/counter-poke meta game I would suggest backdashing if your opponent is mashing out d3. You have a great whiff punisher with f11 so find a way to bait something out so you can use it. Showing you can do this in a match successfully will force your opponent to not press buttons and help shift the meta-game to your side.
Question: her flip kick is punishable yes, but is her forward Cage like kick punishable? I couldnt beat it out with F11
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Quan Chi was a huge problem for me playing as Dvorah. Specifically the sorceror variation. I didnt try doing Swarm Queen against it but as venomous I really couldn't do anything once he got the armor portal up.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
Quan Chi was a huge problem for me playing as Dvorah. Specifically the sorceror variation. I didnt try doing Swarm Queen against it but as venomous I really couldn't do anything once he got the armor portal up.
I really don't have much experience playing Sorcerer Quan. From what I've seen is that mutli hitting fast specials will eventually beat his armor in the armor portal. So mb ovi could be very useful here.
 

KillaGthug4Life

Believe in Magic yet? Let us Dance
I cannot deal with kenshi to save my life. Pls hahlppppp
Kenshi is hard because you have to leran how to get around his zoning. Basically running forward and d4 is amazing because it goes under his spirit attack thing, and it has an insane hit range. His high spirit attack must be blocked high, then you can jump if you want to avoid his other spirit attack, and then run forward d4. Very effective. Once you're in, just go to town because his close game sucks. You need to be able to tech A LOT of throws because that's they're biggest "get off" tool. Also every time he pokes, counter poke, because often they poke and then throw.