Match-Up Discussion - Swarm Queen Who are you struggling with

[KillaGthug4Life]

Personally, I have been having many frustrations with the Takeda Ryu matchup. With his huge range on his strings, amazing anti air (one of the best njp in the game), and extreme mobility from everyone on screen (great fast teleport, low hitting projectile, and his overhead instant air chain). Every single one of his overhead combos he can cancel into those low projectile. I'm just finding it difficult to get close to Takeda. Any tips?

I'm also having struggles with:

Inferno Scorp (quite literally has full screen 50/50 projectiles which is infuriating)
Quan Chi (unblockable vortex for days and hella zoning)
Grandmaster Sub (So fast... less of a problem but just so fast)
Kotal Kan (The version with the huge blade)
Jax (He out pressures, out zones, out knockdowns, out wake ups, and out corners D'vorah)

What about y'all?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Everyone

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Everyone

How painfully optimistic.

 

[KNX]

Yeah Inferno was giving me a lot of problems earlier, though lag was the main issue.

I wouldn't say his zoning is a true 50/50. The animation of the overhead is very distinct, you can low block the other two projectiles and react to the overhead. I know it's crazy that the Minion overhead does so much damage on its own but I'd honestly rather take that over eating a full combo. His high lows aren't the greatest so blocking his pressure was OK, just eating damage to get in, then he gets away just as easily...

There's no basic lag abuse strategy with D'Vorah, her projectiles are slow, she has no teleport and she doesn't have a fast, armored dashing attack. I'm probably done playing her online, so grinding matchups will be even more difficult for me.

I need to play one offline before I say anything definitive.

I personally find the Sub matchup pretty comfortable. He can't klone for free as her best pokes go straight through them. D'Vorah significantly outdamages him. I believe, the Vortex Swarm/Ice Ball trade is in our favor as Ice Ball doesn't do damage. He basically can't dictate the pace of the match against her as well as he can vs other characters.

Oh and I'm free to Cyber Kano atm.

 

[xX_Atrocitus_Xx]

HVS lol

 

[Take$$$]

I was struggling with Cassie, but after playing a million matches against my little brothers Cassie it feels like a pretty even matchup.

Cyber Kano is definitely a bitch, but I've found a few things that work well lately. Walk/run and block until you get just outside out of f22 range, soon enough they'll delay a knife toss so you db1, and db1 will trade with their next knife heavily in your favor. While they're in the db1 you should have enough time to dash(not run)and do this combo for big damage:

F44, run, f44, WC, f44 xx db4

Or just njp, f44, WC, f44 xx db4

 

[Krayzie]

Against Takeda, pretty much just block and be patient. There isn't much else he can do to open her up.

There are holes in his strings as well, you can figure out how to deal with those with armor or backdash punishing.

Against his 12 2+1 string, you can block the 12 high, block the first hit of the 2+1 string low, and backdash the last overhead hit, then run cancel into F1 and fully punish him.

This was my NWM top 8 qualifying match against Sabin.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Yeah Inferno was giving me a lot of problems earlier, though lag was the main issue.

I wouldn't say his zoning is a true 50/50. The animation of the overhead is very distinct, you can low block the other two projectiles and react to the overhead. I know it's crazy that the Minion overhead does so much damage on its own but I'd honestly rather take that over eating a full combo. His high lows aren't the greatest so blocking his pressure was OK, just eating damage to get in, then he gets away just as easily...

There's no basic lag abuse strategy with D'Vorah, her projectiles are slow, she has no teleport and she doesn't have a fast, armored dashing attack. I'm probably done playing her online, so grinding matchups will be even more difficult for me.

I need to play one offline before I say anything definitive.

I personally find the Sub matchup pretty comfortable. He can't klone for free as her best pokes go straight through them. D'Vorah significantly outdamages him. I believe, the Vortex Swarm/Ice Ball trade is in our favor as Ice Ball doesn't do damage. He basically can't dictate the pace of the match against her as well as he can vs other characters.

Oh and I'm free to Cyber Kano atm.

I have found that D'vorah can often trade with Scorpion's zoning with Swarm. And once on knock down she can zone with her wasp grenade and either run in with pressure or continue frame trap with another swarm.

 

[Zoidberg747]

How painfully optimistic.

Its the truth. At my last local someone bodied me with like half the cast, including Shinnok lol. The only MU I dont struggle with right now is Goro. Am hoping to get in a lit of matches at TX showdown to help some of my MU ignorance.

 

[mountlover]

Raiden and Hat Trick Kung Lao. Their reversals are fast enough and have enough range to beat out my vortex swarm setups

I'm also not sure how well I'd fare against a competent Full Auto Jacqui, but I haven't actually had the pleasure yet.

In response to Inferno Scorpion, I have a friend who mains infernoscorp, and sure enough he spams the minions for days. There are two ways around it:

1) The overhead minion has a longer startup than the low minion, so you can work out a low-high block timing that'll cover both of them, even if you can't read which one comes out in time.
2) Run forward. The low and overhead minions both whiff if you just run.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Raiden and Hat Trick Kung Lao. Their reversals are fast enough and have enough range to beat out my vortex swarm setups

I'm also not sure how well I'd fare against a competent Full Auto Jacqui, but I haven't actually had the pleasure yet.

In response to Inferno Scorpion, I have a friend who mains infernoscorp, and sure enough he spams the minions for days. There are two ways around it:

1) The overhead minion has a longer startup than the low minion, so you can work out a low-high block timing that'll cover both of them, even if you can't read which one comes out in time.
2) Run forward. The low and overhead minions both whiff if you just run.

Aren't both of the minions punishable though?

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

And fuck Kung Lao. Fuck Kung Lao so much. -_-

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Its the truth. At my last local someone bodied me with like half the cast, including Shinnok lol. The only MU I dont struggle with right now is Goro. Am hoping to get in a lit of matches at TX showdown to help some of my MU ignorance.

I've been off an on with casuals. I still firmly believe that D'vorah is a good character, what is it you're having struggles with when playing these characters? Like I've been struggling with spacing personally and using her footsi to my advantage.

 

[KIllaByte]

Hey, is it possible to nail a meterless combo off of B1 Df1 (bug-toface-throw) run canel into 2, 1, 2 combos?

 

[Take$$$]

Hey, is it possible to nail a meterless combo off of B1 Df1 (bug-toface-throw) run canel into 2, 1, 2 combos?

Yes, it's a very crucial part of playing her to her full potential

 

[Zoidberg747]

I've been off an on with casuals. I still firmly believe that D'vorah is a good character, what is it you're having struggles with when playing these characters? Like I've been struggling with spacing personally and using her footsi to my advantage.

Execution for sure. Ive been grinding hard though and my execution has gotten way better, so we'll see if I can pull it off come tournament time.

 

[soupofkings]

Hey, is it possible to nail a meterless combo off of B1 Df1 (bug-toface-throw) run canel into 2, 1, 2 combos?

It's much, much more difficult than comboing after f22 WGC or f11 WGC but yes, it is possible. For context I can do those two almost 100% (offline) but have only ever managed to get the b1 to combo once ever, and usually have trouble even getting b1 WGC to come out at all. You have to be incredibly fast and precise.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

For the b1 WGC, I'm not having problems dashing, I'm having problems inputting the b1 into Df1. That needs to come out so quickly and the timing is weird, any advice?

 

[Farpafraf]

Hey, is it possible to nail a meterless combo off of B1 Df1 (bug-toface-throw) run canel into 2, 1, 2 combos?

I can confirm that B1 WGC 11B2 F44 F112xxDB4 is a combo but since even linking 11B2 is pretty hard I suppose that with 212 it wouldn't be consistent at all...

 

[Take$$$]

For the b1 WGC, I'm not having problems dashing, I'm having problems inputting the b1 into Df1. That needs to come out so quickly and the timing is weird, any advice?

Yeah I had the same problem, just practice this for a day or so and the next day it will feel very comfortable. I just slide my thumb on the pad like you would do a half circle on a stick in SF and double tap 1. I can hit b1 wcs on demand for reps of 10 in the training room now and not mess it up very often. I can hit it against my little brother pretty consistently lately too when we play.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Kung Jin

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Kung Jin

Remember that on every single blocked poke you can counter poke. Don't try to jump in on Kung Jin because he has the single most ridiculous njp in the game. His staff bow swing can be punished with f1 and it can be stuffed with NJP. Don't feel too eager to chase him down. If he's spamming arrows you can just crouch and they'll zoom over you. Force him to come to you.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Remember that on every single blocked poke you can counter poke. Don't try to jump in on Kung Jin because he has the single most ridiculous njp in the game. His staff bow swing can be punished with f1 and it can be stuffed with NJP. Don't feel too eager to chase him down. If he's spamming arrows you can just crouch and they'll zoom over you. Force him to come to you.

Lol i know... Once i lock him down hes mine, he has really baits for run. Divekick and overhead are effed up.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Lol i know... Once i lock him down hes mine, he has really baits for run. Divekick and overhead are effed up.

Agreed.. his range along with that damage and safe strings is a little OP. I personally hate having to deal with inferno scorpion, Kung Lao, and Liu Kang. is Kung lao's low hat punishable on block?

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Agreed.. his range along with that damage and safe strings is a little OP. I personally hate having to deal with inferno scorpion, Kung Lao, and Liu Kang. is Kung lao's low hat punishable on block?

No its plus 6. U should have no problems with liu or scorp tbh