TYM's Hot Topic of the Week: Do we ban Scorpion from tournament play?

[Phosferrax]

He won SEA -- that's a a major. It's just that no one does their homework on other scenes.

Is that scene high level though? I'm genuinely asking, because if it isn't then it doesn't really prove anything.

 

[Vogue]

Can we at least all agree that we should wait for Evo at least to pass judgement ?

I need to see the SEA footage . Is it up for free anywhere?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Is that scene high level though? I'm genuinely asking, because if it isn't then it doesn't really prove anything.

Yup, those guys have proven to be some of the absolute top players in the world at variety of diff. fighting games. I'd take them seriously at anything they play.

 

[Phosferrax]

Yup, those guys have proven to be some of the absolute top players in the world at a number of games.

Fair enough, that's one tournament so far, can't base it off of one.

If at CEO Scorpion rapes shop save for 2-3 MU's though...

 

[THTB]

Ban him

And all the idiots saying level up... you don't need to really spend that much time to figure things out in this game... especially this character and his design.

In other real competitive fighting games you'll need plenty of time to develop strategies like Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, and Tekken but not this game. Not NRS games, lol...

If that were the case, why did it take forever for people to even catch onto Sonya, Kenshi, Cage after some time, etc?

Don't give me that lack of frame data shit, because, quite frankly, Kung Lao 21 didn't even pop up as a useful option until a good while after the more important chunks of frame data were released. Also, people weren't counterpoking and punishing d1s and d3s after frame data dropped, either.

 

[TH3DISTURBED1]

Thank you! It's such a simple concept and it honestly doesn't need that much discussing, especially when the top representative of the character (so far) can also agree to it.

We throw out all the reasons why he shouldn't be allowed to live, ask for reasons why he should be allowed to stay, only to get 'level up' (still disregarding the fact that scorp players will inevitably level up too), or that its too early.

It's a needed debate, but still one that I can see making me grind my teeth like some super cereal crackhead.

This is like how REO was complaining on Kombat Network's stream yesterday while you beat his face in about WW. WW safe on block for this string, and that string, and this move, and plus on block on these. IMO if you want to talk about balance, start with ALL of the OTG bs WW and SM have yet. Flash's got removed, why does WW keep hers?

If that gets removed, then sure, why not, either nerf Scorpion to make him more of a risk or ban him out right. I can't tell you how many times I see people block the first hit and then the teleport comes out and they can't switch to block it fast enough. THAT is why they are saying "Level Up." All these characters have dirt. Once Scorpion gets figured out, he'll be top ten but not broken. Once people learn to block the teleport after the instant j1, then let's see where it goes.

Tom Brady made the video on how to deal with Scorpion's wake up, and people still get caught and cry about it. What is it about BLOCKING a 50/50 do people have a problem with? Complaining a 50/50 is a guess is pointless. BOTH players have to guess. Learn what he has that he's unsafe on and actually punish it.

Learn. Adapt. Apply.

 

[DOOMSDAY-15RUS-]

Since this is a hot topic.
Vote and give your reasoning.

I think he should be, because I'd rather see variety in characters in tournaments, if Scorpion is left in it means people are going to have to pick up characters that they don't really want to play just to combat him. (Look at MK9 - Kabal KL Kenshi)

Other than that he pretty much breaks the blocking mechanic of Injustice, ignores all environments whilst still being able to use them and forces EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER in the game to play at a pace which he dictates, even if its a character with the moves to fight back (WW/Aquaman).

He doesn't reward intelligent gameplay what so ever, the only downside is that he might require a little bit of meter to do some combos, but big whoop.

If he's kept in it'll seriously make the tournament scene look beyond shit. We need to step up and have the balls to do it. We made the mistake of not booting Kabal off of our tournament legal characters in MK9, and look what happened, about 9 Kabals in every top 8 in every tournament.

For those that say he should be tournament legal, I want a better reason other than 'level up'. What happens when Scorpion players 'level up' too then?

This choice will ultimately effect the longevity of the game, look how dead MK became after Kabal was fleshed out, because in all seriousness, MK9 COULD still be alive today, but it isnt.

Edit: here's a long example of offline Scorpion gameplay vs. good players:
http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/b/420521717?t=4h59m20s

PL said before scorpion nerf, STOP cry about scorpion noobs , his not so op ( something like that) after scorpion nerf PL gives his TOP 5 with Aquaman,BA,WW(maybe),Flash(WTF), SCORPION (not so op but top 5 after nerf) ?
and about Kabal, i mained reptile for 2,5 years and learned play everyone to play correctly and with some of them had a lot of time but for a short periode, but when i really tryed play Kabal i really said he will be my new main and reptile will be 2nd, not because he is god, just i like a lot his very fast gameplay and this dash cancels are very awesome and fun. In injustice i say superman is the GOD but he is not so funny like BA,CW or even grundy( my opinion) . Respect AFG

 

[Phosferrax]

If that were the case, why did it take forever for people to even catch onto Sonya, Kenshi, Cage after some time, etc?

Don't give me that lack of frame data shit, because, quite frankly, Kung Lao 21 didn't even pop up as a useful option until a good while after the more important chunks of frame data were released. Also, people weren't counterpoking and punishing d1s and d3s after frame data dropped, either.

Too be fair, MK9 brought essentially a new community. We're more matured now and as such I feel that this game is evolving at a much quicker rate than MK9 because we know wtf we're actually doing now.

The inclusion of a good training mode helps massively.

 

[TJ Casters]

So how do we actually make something happen? Most of us want Scorpion nerfed or out. How can we actually make this happen? I don't think arguing online really does anything.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

If that were the case, why did it take forever for people to even catch onto Sonya, Kenshi, Cage after some time, etc?

Don't give me that lack of frame data shit, because, quite frankly, Kung Lao 21 didn't even pop up as a useful option until a good while after the more important chunks of frame data were released. Also, people weren't counterpoking and punishing d1s and d3s after frame data dropped, either.

Because these games are so awfully balanced that people band wagon the characters perceived to be really good by the "top" players. Look at how easy people dick ride the tier lists from REO, Brady, PL, and whoever else is making lists for people to see.

And I can still look at MK9 matches now and still not be impressed. It's not rocket science compared to Capcom/Namco games. Sorry man, NRS games are just not as deep as it could have been.

 

[THTB]

Too be fair, MK9 brought essentially a new community. We're more matured now and as such I feel that this game is evolving at a much quicker rate than MK9 because we know wtf we're actually doing now.

The inclusion of a good training mode helps massively.

In all honesty, I don't actually believe this game is evolving that fast in comparison to MK9, because a lot of people are still struggling with the fundamental aspects of the game.

 

[Gruff757]

If you don't attend tournaments: STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD

there are way too many people that are online warriors/people that this doesn't effect that are voting on the issue

i attended like two tournaments, although one was a local and the other was a regional i guess, do i get to talk? ?

 

[atljonesbro1]

Because these games are so awfully balanced that people band wagon the characters perceived to be really good by the "top" players. Look at how easy people dick ride the tier lists from REO, Brady, PL, and whoever else is making lists for people to see.

I highly doubt people would listen to PL of all people. Everything he does is to try to make himself look good.

 

[THTB]

Because these games are so awfully balanced that the bandwagons change easily. Look at how easy people dick ride the tier lists from REO, Brady, PL, and whoever else?

...Uh, wouldn't that mean that the game has depth if characters are still so unexplored that bandwagons constantly popped up?

If there was no depth, the tiers would have been rigid 1 month after the final patch.

 

[Phosferrax]

In all honesty, I don't actually believe this game is evolving that fast in comparison to MK9, because a lot of people are still struggling with the fundamental aspects of the game.

At high level I feel it is, maybe not at the lower level because most of the players were new to MK9, and then try injustice which is completely different and carry over the same way of playing a different game that doesn't work. But aside from MU experience, I feel at the higher levels of play the game is growning quickly.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

...Uh, wouldn't that mean that the game has depth if characters are still so unexplored that bandwagons constantly popped up?

If there was no depth, the tiers would have been rigid 1 month after the final patch.

Not really, but we're on the subject of Scorpion's presence in this game and how he's already being played with and against by "top" players. My point is that there really isn't a lot of digging needed to see off the bat that certain characters are good. You don't have to play REO to determine if the character is good or bad. He's just another smart player that can break down these characters in these types of games. We don't need to be his tournament rival to see that. It's pretty blatant this character can pose a lot of problems for the roster right now.

I'm still standing by banning Scorpion until after EVO.

 

[haketh]

Because these games are so awfully balanced that people band wagon the characters perceived to be really good by the "top" players. Look at how easy people dick ride the tier lists from REO, Brady, PL, and whoever else is making lists for people to see.

And I can still look at MK9 matches now and still not be impressed. It's not rocket science compared to Capcom/Namco games. Sorry man, NRS games are just not as deep as it could have been.

Why the fuck are you even here if you don't like NRS?


Scorp shouldn't be banned for now. I thionk the character is dumb as fuck but we need more time for this.

 

[SUPARNOVAX]

Why the fuck are you even here if you don't like NRS?


Scorp shouldn't be banned for now. I thionk the character is dumb as fuck but we need more time for this.

Because I like certain aspects of the game also. I don't have to worship the companies that make the games. Everyone makes mistakes with their games but it doesn't exactly mean you stop playing or testing them. I'm a customer of the game and if this forum's an avenue for feedback and criticism, why not?

CEO's this week and EVO's just around the corner. Zod's banned I think, unless the community decides to flip that decision on their own. Scorpion's a few weeks older. Too early to him in as a viable option for now.

 

[Owerbart]

I'll give it some time. My main complain about scorpion, which I said even before the character was released, was the fact that his teleport it's kinda akward for the mechanic of the game. It's too early to make a judgement.

 

[RexyWrecks]

Anyone that is comparing Kabal to Scorpion is an idiot. If anything, he should be compared to MetaKnight(SSBB). He breaks the rules of the game and it's as simple as that. That reason alone is enough to warrant a ban.

 

[Big Pampering]

The Kabal argument is one that supports the banning of Scorpion if anything, imagine the character diversity of MK9 if Kabal, Kenshi and Kung Lao were all banned. Then LOOK at what the character diversity in MK9 was when we as a community left the tournament rules on characters untouched

leave kung lao out of this sir

 

[Gruff757]

Anyone that is comparing Kabal to Scorpion is an idiot. If anything, he should be compared to MetaKnight(SSBB). He breaks the rules of the game and it's as simple as that. That reason alone is enough to warrant a ban.

SMASH BRUHS AYNT UH FAETUN GAEM IT BEEZ UH PAWTEE GAEM

 

[RexyWrecks]

SMASH BRUHS AYNT UH FAETUN GAEM IT BEEZ UH PAWTEE GAEM

Arguable... But the same concept applies.

 

[dabuz]

Anyone that is comparing Kabal to Scorpion is an idiot. If anything, he should be compared to MetaKnight(SSBB). He breaks the rules of the game and it's as simple as that. That reason alone is enough to warrant a ban.

MK does things much worse than that LOL. There are rules in the game and stages are banned just to keep him beatable by a select few non MK top tier characters. Scorpion is not comparable at all ATM.

 

[Gruff757]

Arguable... But the same concept applies.

oh i was just quoting what majority of the fgc says about it lol