The Run Button

[THTB]

Don't get me wrong, I love UMK3 (still the best MK imo) but giving every single character (which should be a lot in the next MK game) the ability to run would require a TON of testing. This is a fighting game we are talking about, there is such a massive toolbox of options that even the smallest changes could make the biggest differences. There's bound to be some glitches and exploits if they just put it in the current system.

I think the solution for this would be to give only certain characters, (preferably rush down type of characters) the run ability and see how that works for them, or just remake MKT.

If it takes a lot of testing, I'm all for it. With how buggy MK9 was out the gates, their next game NEEDS to be tested much more extensively, anyway, and with much more care. There should not be bugs in basic parts of the game that cause random scenarios and forces you to be on point for when you press your button for a basic low after hitting the direction.

 

[AC1984]

If you think MK9 is all about random jumps and crossups, you aren't good enough at the game to judge. Period.

Talk UMK3 all you want, that's your game. Don't talk MK9 if it isn't. Considering you think random jumps and crossups still cut it (CD Jr wants a word with you) and you implied that the game doesn't have real pressure, I'm going to assume that's the case.

Why not talking MK9, thats your game????


P.S. A run button in MK9 = the most broken game ever...overheads, lows, unblockable throws...

 

[THTB]

A run button with UMK3's properties, yes, broken.

A run button with MK9 dash's properties in terms of cancels, no. In fact, it SOLVES problems. You would be allowed to have stuff like pre-patch Skarlet daggers.

 

[Tim Static]

I lived through that :bs: once. I am NOT doing it again. It was funky and kool the first time around simply because noone else had thought of it. It was also one of the few game mechanics that was never ripped by another company. Any guesses why?

SF never had to take gameplay mechanics from MK. SF was the blue print for everything.

Besides, with the Run button matches just came down to whoever got their run kombo off first. Yay. Fun. Wow....... :jerkoff:

um, yea it usually comes down to whomever is being more aggressive, pushing the other player, but again, the Run button is so much more than just applying pressure but no one really seems to understand it or why.

Its still the best thing thing MK has ever done. period.

 

[MKK hanzo]

If you think MK9 is all about random jumps and crossups, you aren't good enough at the game to judge. Period.

Talk UMK3 all you want, that's your game. Don't talk MK9 if it isn't. Considering you think random jumps and crossups still cut it (CD Jr wants a word with you) and you implied that the game doesn't have real pressure, I'm going to assume that's the case.

it may NOT be random jump buttons but its a JUMP ENCOURAGED came, jump attacks and crossups have SO BIG role in the gameplay that I think thats the main stuff that DONT appeal to old school gamers.

Why?

Cause we were "teached" NOT TO FUCKING JUMP. And in mk9, argue it or not, you HAVE to jump and A LOT. Watch any but Imean ANY match, even a high level one, and compare it to a high level OLD SHCOOL UMK3 match and you will see a clear difference...

 

[Altaire]

Why not talking MK9, thats your game????


P.S. A run button in MK9 = the most broken game ever...overheads, lows, unblockable throws...

Well yes, MK9 IS my game, as I actually understand it and play it extensively. I know MK9, so I talk about it. I don't know UMK3, so I don't talk about it as if I do. I enjoyed how UMK3 was played when I was younger, but having seen how it's played competitively, it just doesn't appeal to me. Clearly, it's just not my sort of game, so I stay out of it. Again, I just don't talk about UMK3. I let the UMK3 OGs do their thing and I stick to the games I actually know.

 

[aj1701]

it may NOT be random jump buttons but its a JUMP ENCOURAGED came, jump attacks and crossups have SO BIG role in the gameplay that I think thats the main stuff that DONT appeal to old school gamers.

Why?

Cause we were "teached" NOT TO FUCKING JUMP. And in mk9, argue it or not, you HAVE to jump and A LOT. Watch any but Imean ANY match, even a high level one, and compare it to a high level OLD SHCOOL UMK3 match and you will see a clear difference...

I get why the older games discouraged jumping more. But if MK9 is more jump friendly, so what? I never understood why people complained that "there's too much jumping in MK9." Jumps make a game bad?

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I get why the older games discouraged jumping more. But if MK9 is more jump friendly, so what? I never understood why people complained that "there's too much jumping in MK9." Jumps make a game bad?

Jumping in MK9 can't really be comparable to any other game, the JIP is an odd approach to offense - I honestly feel that it was a mistake and as opposed to there being some universal mechanism to punish it, it's character specific. Honestly I don't even like using it, but after the dash nerf...well...you pretty much have to. Dash isn't the run of MK9, the damn JIP is and it's a pretty shitty substitute in reality.

I would've rather had a run feature that functioned properly than playing Mortal Kombat: Mexican Jumping Beans Edition; maybe I should just play KL he fully discourages jumping.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

Jumping is much less dominant in MK9 now that people have their anti-airs down. Any good player will not allow it to happen and you will be punished hard for doing it. As for the run button, I hope not for a few reasons:
1) the main thing I dislike about Umk3 is that it just feels too generic. The run button would give every character a universal way to start offense which would might result in UMk3 like (boring) matches.
2) If you think this game is buggy now, just imagine what would happen if another variable was added. This is the reason Cyrax is broken: there are simply too many things to be tested and accounted for.
3) Correct me If I am wrong, but wouldn't a run button make the game more aggressive? I feel rushdown is already difficult to deal with. NRS does not seem to be fond of zoning which is probably why they gave everyone armor. I feel like a good fighting game should have defensive options. I don't see the run button promoting this.

Bottom line: Please don't add the run button. I have watched high level Umk3 and have started playing it more in the arcade collection- It does not satisfy me.

 

[aj1701]

[MENTION=3472]IniquityDM[/MENTION], yes, its odd, and its unlike other fighters, I won't dispute that. I just don't get way its automatically bad. I've not heard a good reason to dislike it other than its different. Punishing it in MK9 may be character specific, but are there any characters that can't stop it at all? I don't know of any, but I don't claim to be an expert either.

 

[Juggs]

I get why the older games discouraged jumping more. But if MK9 is more jump friendly, so what? I never understood why people complained that "there's too much jumping in MK9." Jumps make a game bad?

Jumping in has universally been the last option you would have in order to get in. If there's no other way around it, you would be forced to jump in and hope not to get anti-aired. In MK9, it's not the last option... it's the first or second. Generally, only newer or bad players would just jump as their main way of getting in in most fighters. This is still true today. Go play some scrubs in UMK3 or SSF4, they jump... A LOT! Since they nerfed the dash in MK9, jumping became better and even more of a reliance on getting in. When top players are jumping constantly, the game just doesn't look very good. Also, I personally don't like games where my opponent can jump-in safely a good % of the time. It dumbs down the game and it makes a last resort tactic abused by noobs a prime tactic at high level play.

 

[aj1701]

Jumping in has universally been the last option you would have in order to get in. If there's no other way around it, you would be forced to jump in and hope not to get anti-aired. In MK9, it's not the last option... it's the first or second. Generally, only newer or bad players would just jump as their main way of getting in in most fighters. This is still true today. Go play some scrubs in UMK3 or SSF4, they jump... A LOT! Since they nerfed the dash in MK9, jumping became better and even more of a reliance on getting in. When top players are jumping constantly, the game just doesn't look very good. Also, I personally don't like games where my opponent can jump-in safely a good % of the time. It dumbs down the game and it makes a last resort tactic abused by noobs a prime tactic at high level play.

Well that's kinda my point. In other games its a last resort... but this isn't other games, its MK9. Why does jumping at a high level make a game look bad? Because its not just like the other games? That's what I really don't get. I mean if your opinion is that you don't like it I get that, but why in general to high level players just say "jumping = bad" and that means the game is bad if jumping is viable? I know online crossovers are hard to deal with, but are they really that bad offline too?

EDIT: I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand the thinking.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Jumping in has universally been the last option you would have in order to get in. If there's no other way around it, you would be forced to jump in and hope not to get anti-aired. In MK9, it's not the last option... it's the first or second.

Exactly. You look at a one dimensional character like JC who HAS to attempt to advance on a character like Kitana. His options after being zoned out are neutral crouch blocking fans, or trying to dash block/walk block in there and eating chip damage via fans. If there was something like a functional run feature, if she threw an iAF then he could merely run in on her from full screen as opposed to some shitty bugged out armor move which doesn't work 50% of the time. It's not like it would change the dynamic of being zoned out that heavily; Kitana still should have an assload of meter from chucking fans and should be able to break immediately.

Anyways, I'm done trying to play any character who lacks mobility, it just gives me a headache.

 

[eskuAdradit0]

3) Correct me If I am wrong, but wouldn't a run button make the game more aggressive? I feel rushdown is already difficult to deal with. NRS does not seem to be fond of zoning which is probably why they gave everyone armor. I feel like a good fighting game should have defensive options. I don't see the run button promoting this.

I know this is off-topic, but...

Well, Kabal, Kitana, Sindel, Skarlet, Mileena and Liu Kang have instant fireballs, which are obviously thought for zoning purposes. Noob Saibot has 50/50 zoning (I have no idea why a faster unduckable meterless overhead gives pushback on block and his slower low projectile doesn't, but that's a whole diff. rant). Sub-zero controls space (zone) with his ice clones and ice beam. Jax has a cancellable unblockable ground pound, and his projectile recovers hella fast, even faster than Sonya's. Shang Tsung's juggle starters are safe on block and even give you frame advantage. Reptile has a slow and a fast forceball, which are primarly zoning tools on top of his pretty-fast acid spit. Talking about Shang, he's also got his upskulls (in front, on top and behind), which give also frame advantage, just like Sektors. Sektor pushes you back with his strings which open up his zoning game. The other 2 robots also control space with their bombs (which cover the ground, encouraging jumping) and have anti-air tools. Kano and Ermac are both obvious zoners as well.
The other part of the roster are primarly anti-zoners (though some of the characters mentioned above can use their zoning as counter-zoning as well) like Raiden, Nightwolf or Smoke. Leaving just some special cases left on the board with a what-the-fuck-are-they-intended-to-be etiquette ? (baraka, jade, sheeva, etc)

I'd say that MK9 is a zoning-orientated game, and that's probably the reason why they gave so much armor all over the game through patches and stuff while the game started it's evolution. Plus, it's not easy armor at all. Either it's a big "miss and you get full combo'ed" (Kabal's), last shortly (sonya's) or is buggy (JC's red kick). Let's not forget tha if you get hit by the first active frame of your armor you'll lose the meter and no EX attack will come out.

It's just NRS lack of planification over patches that may make it look like it's not a zoning-orianted at first, but give it a deeper thought.

On topic:

Given the characters' original design, I'd say that the run button does help counter zoning in this game.

 

[OutworldKeith]

This is the only way "run" would work on a MK9 based gameplay IMO:

1. f,F (press forward twice but hold it at the second forward motion)

2. f,f,f

It could be a Tekken style run, but you can cancel a run with block and trigger a run from anywhere on screen except footsies. All characters should have a different run speed.

a UMK3 style run would drastically change gameplay

 

[THTB]

Run can be a button. It just shouldn't be following UMK3 rules to the T if it were to be used for MK9.

Jumping in MK9 is not as dangerous as the older MKs, but it's far more dangerous than a lot of games. Not many other games do you risk losing 20-30% life in a meterless juggle for jumping. Usually, in like SFIV, you aren't losing close to that much. You lose more if the opponent does have meter, too. And the chances for getting AA comboed in MK9 is generally off of more numerous options.

But regardless, jumping in MK9 is a lot weaker than you guys are giving credit for. Probably just need to get more accustomed to timings or just are used to older MKs being literally death for jumping.

Tbh, as MK9 gets older, you will see a lot stronger fundamentals than you are seeing right now. Trust me, walking will become way more prominent later and it will open up the AA game even more than it is now.

 

[xenogorgeous]

no way .... MK9 already is fast paced enough the way it is, the approaching works fine with dashes and jumps .... Run button could only make it pretty boring, because the fun is have to dash your way in to the enemy, step by step.

In MK9, when characters are separated from full screen distance, each one in his/her own side, it take only 3 forward dashes to meet each other, and 5 back dashes to build full screen distance again, so, it's not that hard to cover distance using dashes.

 

[aj1701]

Exactly. You look at a one dimensional character like JC who HAS to attempt to advance on a character like Kitana. His options after being zoned out are neutral crouch blocking fans, or trying to dash block/walk block in there and eating chip damage via fans. If there was something like a functional run feature, if she threw an iAF then he could merely run in on her from full screen as opposed to some shitty bugged out armor move which doesn't work 50% of the time. It's not like it would change the dynamic of being zoned out that heavily; Kitana still should have an assload of meter from chucking fans and should be able to break immediately.

Anyways, I'm done trying to play any character who lacks mobility, it just gives me a headache.

Unless the run had armor, I don't see how this changes from dash blocking in. And when you dash block, you cover a ton of ground. I like playing stick with an MK layout, and losing the throw button to run would suck. Having to hit both back attacks for tag sucks, having to do that to throw would as well... and I always hated throwing in the earlier MKs, seemed inconsistent for the game to decide you meant throw instead of lp / fk.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

The only reason why the run button worked in UMK3 is because all characters had the exact same pokes, AA tools, sweep and roundhouse. And they all had the same speed. It was balanced because of the uniformity in design.

But MK9 with a run button would be a broken mess. Not sure UMK3 guys realize this... It would make MK9 overly aggressive, heavily unbalanced and repetitive.

Personally, I'd like to have more fluid movement to allow for better footsies. But the run button idea needs to die.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

I honestly don't see how the run button would work in the new engine that MK9 uses. The game is just so different. What they should have done from the get go is they should have re-made UMK3 but with modern 3d graphics instead of digital sprites etc. Thats what MK9 should have been, a true 2d fighter with the same oldschool play style. But I guess we'll have to settle for what we got . Not too bad if you ask me, excluding the glitched hitboxes on certain characters and the sloppy design flaw that is the switch stance.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Personally, I'd like to have more fluid movement to allow for better footsies.

Glad it's not only me. The game seems unresponsive to me at times. Movement Feels sluggish.

 

[MKF30]

Hey MKK, it's all good man I like friendly debates.

Jumping in MK9 can't really be comparable to any other game, the JIP is an odd approach to offense - I honestly feel that it was a mistake and as opposed to there being some universal mechanism to punish it, it's character specific. Honestly I don't even like using it, but after the dash nerf...well...you pretty much have to. Dash isn't the run of MK9, the damn JIP is and it's a pretty shitty substitute in reality.

I would've rather had a run feature that functioned properly than playing Mortal Kombat: Mexican Jumping Beans Edition; maybe I should just play KL he fully discourages jumping.

I'd disagree to this notion due to the fact that some characters can simply take you out of the air completely by jump in attempts, not even talking about AA jabs etc but certain moves that just kill any jump in attempt. Like NW's dash, Ermac's TK push, Kenshi's sword uppercut slash, Noob's rise kick, etc, etc. I don't see how jump in punches is a sub for running, to get in you need to dash and block. If you jump at me to get closer you make my life easier because I'll just take you out of the air completely. JC is a character that's for the most part not about powers, he has no teleport so of course his only way is to dash/block, jump wisely etc. That's why this game much like every other is about match ups. If Kitana can keep Cage away, he's done. If he can get in however, you can make the counter argument that Cage will just stuff her face with 50/50's. In UMK3, you can run cancel, kara jab etc with ease and you take less chip damage.....UMK3's run while it's not a bad thing still favors the more aggressive player at the end of the day, MK9 however does not favor any particular "player" you can be a good defensive player and win, good turtle and win, good zoner and win, good offensive player and win. UMK3 catters more to the aggressive "let me smother the fuck out of you" player with the run kara jabs and there's not a damn thing outside of D+A that you can do about it...and that doesn't even work all the time. That aside from the fact that UMK3's issues like the jab corner infinite were never addressed while MK 9's issues were. To me this also makes a big difference between the two IMO.


After all these months, this topic still has interesting convo though with interesting perspectives. My initial stance still remains the same, I was playing some UMK3 after a long hiatus recently due to MK9's dominance and I must say, the run is a big part of that stupid corner jab infinite=LAME, can't do that in MK9 because it's more...balanced and something called wake up attacks. Thank GOD. I know everyone has their own way of playing and what's legit, what's not but to this day that UMK3 corner jab infinite bothers me. I dare anyone to try to beat me that way in MK9. All I'm saying. Later

 

[NinjaGrinder]

lol @ " in UMK3 all characters had the exact same pokes, AA tools, sweep and roundhouse"

 

[DanCock]

**** edit*** oh my bad looks like you are just quoting someone saying that lolol ****

lol @ " in UMK3 all characters had the exact same pokes, AA tools, sweep and roundhouse"

that's not true. Only ones that do are palette swipe characters.


Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Korpse]

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