Guide - Cryomancer Sub-Zero CRYOMANCER Guide

[PaletteSwap]

Sub-Zero has one critical flaw in this form. He cannot build meter quickly.

What this means is that losing meter limits him from keeping an effective corner guard. Without EX Hammer, he loses a powerful starter, a powerful launcher, and an armored move that counterattacks other characters. Having 0 bars of meter limits his corner attacks to B2, B3, or just blocking. Many people love to armor out of the corner, and being forced to block gives them that priority.

Meanwhile, as Grandmaster, you can pop as many clones as you want without meter. You can also build meter by propping a clone and firing Ice Balls or destroying it. You have a number of specials that will build your meter while you play effective defense or rush your opponent into the corner.

Cryomancer is truly a form for offense, but without meter, better players will see that and punish as effectively as they can, abusing as many armor moves as they want. Don't lose faith in the form, though, because it still has the effective Cold Blooded ender. Just depends on what you need more.

He still has great meterless damage. Just have to sacrifice some damage to build meter with hit confirms into ice blast and ending with slide instead of cold blooded.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Sub-Zero has one critical flaw in this form. He cannot build meter quickly.

What this means is that losing meter limits him from keeping an effective corner guard. Without EX Hammer, he loses a powerful starter, a powerful launcher, and an armored move that counterattacks other characters. Having 0 bars of meter limits his corner attacks to B2, B3, or just blocking. Many people love to armor out of the corner, and being forced to block gives them that priority.

Meanwhile, as Grandmaster, you can pop as many clones as you want without meter. You can also build meter by propping a clone and firing Ice Balls or destroying it. You have a number of specials that will build your meter while you play effective defense or rush your opponent into the corner.

Cryomancer is truly a form for offense, but without meter, better players will see that and punish as effectively as they can, abusing as many armor moves as they want. Don't lose faith in the form, though, because it still has the effective Cold Blooded ender. Just depends on what you need more.

I was playing ranked with Cryo today and noticed I hardly at bar, even when I was getting combed. I wish he like ice daggers in projectile form. :\

 

[Lokheit]

I tested the 1 bar 40% mid-screen combo b2, run, b1,2, Ex hammer, f4,2,1+3 and found it to work on all characters in the game. It can be difficult to perform consistently on small hitbox characters, hardest of which are Cassie and Mileena for me. Jacqui and Kitana aren't bad. I'll post a couple execution tips below for anyone interested in mastering this combo against the entire roster.

1) Buffer the run during the recovery of b2, as Sub-Zero is standing up. Practice just this part, a connected b2 into run, and see that he's running on the first possible frame. If it's any later, the follow-up may drop.

2) The b1,2 part is tricky against small hitbox characters. I found myself having to input it slightly later than when I intuitively think I should. Beyond this part, the rest of the combo easily falls into place.

I'd recommend practicing this both with and without a jip to improve overall consistency, as shown in the video. Also, I don't think the combo works on small characters off a ranged b2.

I was practicing with that combo recently and I came to the conclussion that... it's not worth it.

IMO it's just something fancy and the fact that you can do a 40% combo for 1 bar doesn't mean it's the best way to optimize your character. Because you're using meter AFTER the first string and launch, you're using a full bar to up your damage 1-3% depending of the starter you picked.

I'd rather use 1 bar on F33-EXHammer-B2-RUN-F421+3. Even if it's 37% damage instead of 40% you have:

- A much faster first strike.
- A Low and an Overhead on the initial string.
- Armor, which is really important for this variation and as EXHammer is slower than other armored moves, it wins against them (if both moves have armor, the slowest one wins the trade even if the first one deals some damage, because the first one to hit will lose its armor first). So even if the F33 is blocked, they can't punish you mid-screen if they don't want to eat hammer salad (some exception ins the form of super fast flurry strikes can break the armor, but there aren't many of those and some like Liu's bycicle kick will go over you without connecting).
- Much easier and reliable execution, which is important too, specially online.

There is no way I'd trade all of those properties for a +3% damage without them. You can still achieve 39% starting the same combo with B12 and retain most of those things except having both a low and an overhead, but still faster and safer than the 40% one.

Yes, it's good to show that the character can reach the 40% mark, but honestly, after being in the lab some time toying with it, I really think it's not worth wasting that precious bar on a combo like that one.

Just my opinion, but I think with so little ability to build meter, Cryomancer should spent all of his meter on increasing mixup oportunities and gaining armor. I would need a combo that is around +8-10% damage better than my goto ones to even start thinking about using them.

 

[zee]

I was practicing with that combo recently and I came to the conclussion that... it's not worth it.

IMO it's just something fancy and the fact that you can do a 40% combo for 1 bar doesn't mean it's the best way to optimize your character. Because you're using meter AFTER the first string and launch, you're using a full bar to up your damage 1-3% depending of the starter you picked.

I'd rather use 1 bar on F33-EXHammer-B2-RUN-F421+3. Even if it's 37% damage instead of 40% you have:

- A much faster first strike.
- A Low and an Overhead on the initial string.
- Armor, which is really important for this variation and as EXHammer is slower than other armored moves, it wins against them (if both moves have armor, the slowest one wins the trade even if the first one deals some damage, because the first one to hit will lose its armor first). So even if the F33 is blocked, they can't punish you mid-screen if they don't want to eat hammer salad (some exception ins the form of super fast flurry strikes can break the armor, but there aren't many of those and some like Liu's bycicle kick will go over you without connecting).
- Much easier and reliable execution, which is important too, specially online.

There is no way I'd trade all of those properties for a +3% damage without them. You can still achieve 39% starting the same combo with B12 and retain most of those things except having both a low and an overhead, but still faster and safer than the 40% one.

Yes, it's good to show that the character can reach the 40% mark, but honestly, after being in the lab some time toying with it, I really think it's not worth wasting that precious bar on a combo like that one.

Just my opinion, but I think with so little ability to build meter, Cryomancer should spent all of his meter on increasing mixup oportunities and gaining armor. I would need a combo that is around +8-10% damage better than my goto ones to even start thinking about using them.

You have good points, there's no arguing that f3,3 Ex hammer is great. Off a mid-screen jump in, though, with a b2 starter you're limited to 33% if you don't use meter and do jip, b2, run, f4,2,1+3. With the bar, you get 41%. There's the sneaky 8% mid-screen damage increase. I realize jip, b2 isn't safe on block, but with Cryo's inability to produce clones, his b2 is always unsafe and eats meterless punish combos from everyone. Despite that, jip, b2 is good to use on occasion to get the opponent to respect the option.

I don't think the combo is difficult to execute on anyone but the smallest characters, and even on them it's doable and usable just like 1-frame link combos are in Street Fighter. I've always loved high execution combos and decided to share some tips for anyone interested in spending significant lab time to get it right against the entire cast, but yes, it's not a BnB (on small characters only). On anyone else, you can absolutely use this in a decent connection online. From a grounded freeze, the combo does 31% with a jump-in punch and that is more damage than some characters' raw X-Rays.

 

[Lokheit]

@zee the point was, if I'm going to spend 1 bar, I'm starting with F33EXHammer to make sure that bar counts (you optimize the bar by adding all the mentioned properties).

You're right that with 1 bar the B2 starter becomes more damaging, but with that same 1 bar I can simply not start with a B2 and instead do the F33EXHammer (that also contains an Overhead launcher like B2 while starting faster and throwing a low right before the Overhead to force a change of blocking stance, plus armor). I could even use a B12 for 39% and still better starter properties.

You have to compare the use of this 1 bar combo with other combos that are using a single bar too. And in this scenario it's just a +3% increase. 3 more damage will rarely change the final outcome of a fight while being able to connect a full combo does, and that's why I say that F33EXHammer is superior than the 40% one.

I'd rather connect a meterless B2RUN 31% combo and have 1 bar saved to be able to connect the following one (and make sure my opponent respects my options) than using the bar after I'm in the juggle and lowering my chances at connecting following combos.

With character like Kenjutsu Kenshi where you need bars to get full combos, of course you're using bars after connecting, because 1 bar can add a huge lot of damage (Kenjutsu is a really poor variation right now, can't do any damage without meter, this statement will probably change when/if the make his DB1 a real juggle), but in cases where the bar adds 3% with worse starter properties compared with my other option, in my opinion you're wasting all the potential that bar had and all the tactical advantages it has. You're paying the same amount of meter for less.

Of course if you always use the same starter they will read it and you have to mix it with other starters, but having that bar in the pocket means that I can still use that starter while using it on an already started combo means I won't be so versatile for the next one.

It's great that you want to help others to learn this combo and being able to execute anything a character can do is always good for training and I think it's a good idea. What I'm saying is that, in a real fight, using it isn't a good way to spend resources. Only case I'd think about it is if you've almost finished your opponent, you have spare meter and you realized you started with a B2 when a Meter Burn combo would kill him (and this is hard to tell as the bar doesn't have reference marks on that damage range plus you can lose your focus by checking it if the combo has started and whiff the B1,2).

Maybe I'm a bit overconservative, but without GM and UB tactical tools (plus superior meter building) this variation should be using all those bars on tactical stuff. You already increased your overal damage by picking this variation and sacrificing access to better control tools.

 

[Durango]

I'm not fond of high execution combos at all, but that's me personally, and I enjoy the optionto use simpler combos, even at the expense of a few points of damage.

The problem is you have enemies who can do roughly as much damage as you can, but can build meter and abuse armor 2x as fast as you can. Kung Jin, Scorpion, Kenshi, and Kung Lao all come to mind. And without your meter, EX Hammer becomes useless, and your Wakeup options become severely limited against someone ready to frametrap you. That said, Cryomancer's main point without meter is Cold Blooded. The additional damage and the reset are the most useful points, but if you don't have a proper followup to someone's escape from the reset, it's going to only make the match harder.

If you're not a fan of defensive play (Grandmaster), Cryomancer will still be your best bet. But this thread is all about learning to build meter quicker or make the best use of what we have without it.

 

[zee]

@Lokheit Nice discussion. I think all our respective points still stand. If SZ conditions them to block f33 and b33 low starters, b2 opens them up. We don't want to burn the bar early on in the match when there's already a good meterless combo from b2, but the option is there to still get 40% in the latter half of the round/ match. It's a nice-to-know combo that can help finish off an opponent when you need it, off a mid-screen b2. Otherwise, the 31% is just fine early on in a match to conserve resources for the other openers as well as defense.

@Durango It's alright if you don't like high execution combos at all. Of course, we're free to use any character as we see fit, and characters generally aren't too adversely affected by keeping it simple as a hard rule. Meter conservation is undoubtedly important, and this combo isn't meant to be performed after every b2 either. That said, the information's out there for anyone who enjoys putting in practice to improve their consistency with situation-specific options.

 

[Lokheit]

Guys, I think I've found something that IIRC hasn't been mentioned.

I was making an excel file with all the moves data to make rankings of Cryomancer's moves and I was also trying to find some use for some of the exclusive strings that don't seem to have any advantage and I realized that the 1,1,1 string, unlike most full strings, was cancellable.

It is +1 on hit and 30 cancel, which supposedly leaves it at 31 advantage on move cancel.

I checked and the Iceball doesn't work (exactly 30 frames move, so apparently you either have to use a move with a smaller startup than your advantage, or the data is wrong, or something more like the activation frames need to be counted, the EXHammer is a 27 frames move and isn't connecting either) BUT ice bomb and burst work here.

1,1,1EXBomb, RUN F4,2,1+3 is 32% which mid screen is still inferior to 1,1,EXHammer, B2, RUN, F4,2,1+3 which has the same start up and deals 33%...

BUT in the corner, you can do 1,1,1EXBomb, B2, F4,2,1+3 for 36% damage. I'm not sure if this can also be done mid screen, I just discovered this and so far because the Bomb throws you on a different angle than EXHammer, I haven't connected it, but I will experient a bit with it and see if it can be done midscreen too.

So far at least is superior in the corner. This means that with 1 bar we have a 36% punisher that starts up faster than the Slide (normals add +1 after block as they're not considered reversals, so 1 has a startup of 6+1 = 7 and the slide is 8 with no combo options.

On regular play there are better strings, but as a punisher, 36% makes them respect you a lot.


PS: Now that they nerfed GM so general stuff can be buffed, if they make regular Iceball just a couple of frames better we could have a meterless 1,1,1 punisher and B33 connecting on males... let's start campaigning for 2 frames faster Iceball!!

EDIT: It's actually 37% if you connect a 1 before the F421+3. @Tom Brady I think this one could go on the "Enhanced Corner" section instead of the current 1,1 starter one. And now that I read that list, I think the 40% mid screen one that has been discussed lately is missing too.

EDIT2: EXIceball to JIPB2B2... does the same damage than with the EXbomb (like happened with the EXHammer corner combos). But like with the EXHammer moves, using the EXIceball will keep the same damage even if you add the 1 before the cold blooded combo so Bomb is still the superior option in this situation.

 

[Hayes9391]

Any tips on dealing with good Cryomancer players? I've ran into 2 or 3 (what I consider) great Cryomancer players over the last two days. They pressure massively and poke me out and then get me guessing between the overhead hammer fist and low kicks into ice hammer. SZ's D4 seem god like lol. I play Mileena by the way.

 

[Durango]

Any tips on dealing with good Cryomancer players? I've ran into 2 or 3 (what I consider) great Cryomancer players over the last two days. They pressure massively and poke me out and then get me guessing between the overhead hammer fist and low kicks into ice hammer. SZ's D4 seem god like lol. I play Mileena by the way.

Drain their meter, jump over them, and do neutral jumps to bait and counter.

-Cryomancer gets most of its punch from EX Hammer combos. Take this away and they're left with limited options.
-Uppercut isn't frequently utilized, as combos are generally in favor. If they try to go in the air with you, you will most likely win the air trade.
-Neutral jump punishes EX Hammer, B2, F4, B33, and F33, which are common starters.
-Keep as much distance as you can. Use more Sai Toss and less teleports and trying to stay in Sub-Zero's face, which is where he wants you. Limit his approach.
-Save your meter for when you get thrown into the corner. Use armor attacks to escape because Sub-Zero is at his strongest in the corner.
-If you get hit with Cold Blooded (forward kick, punch, grab into shanks), neutral jump. They usually follow-up, but you're both in neutral here.
-Low block a lot, especially from afar, so you don't get hit with a Slide.
-Most of the time, they'll string combos with EX Hammer. Be ready to turn a Low Block into a standing block.
-Don't try to trade projectiles. If you get hit with Ice Ball, it's full combo punish.
-If he does F33 (mid kick, low kick, mid kick) that sends you flying, it's to launch you into the corner as quickly as possible.

 

[zee]

I seem to have stumbled upon Cryo's highest mid-screen damage combo so far at 44%. Completely not worth it. Here it is for lulz.

This thread may not be the best place, but I don't want to clutter the forum with a new thread for junk like this either. There should be a single thread to amass all the fun stuff... maybe @Insuperable's combo thread could work.

@Durango and @Lokheit: "Can we have 12 seconds of our lives back?"

Yes, yes you can.
BibleThump

 

[Gilbagz]

I seem to have stumbled upon Cryo's highest mid-screen damage combo so far at 44%. Completely not worth it. Here it is for lulz.

This thread may not be the best place, but I don't want to clutter the forum with a new thread for junk like this either. There should be a single thread to amass all the fun stuff... maybe @Insuperable's combo thread could work.

@Durango and @Lokheit: "Can we have 12 seconds of our lives back?"

Yes, yes you can.
BibleThump

Highest midscreen I could find was 46%
b1,2 mb hammer walk forward b2 (cross under) b1,2 mb hammer run f4,2, 1+3
Pretty practical though only good for the kill
The cross under stuff is useful for reversing position though

 

[Lokheit]

@Durango and @Lokheit: "Can we have 12 seconds of our lives back?"

Yes, yes you can.

I'm truly sorry if you got the impression I was bashing you, that wasn't my intention and I know I could've been a little too much focused on showing the theorical part of my arguments to the point it ended up being more exhaustive than needed.

But if you read my comment about the new counter combo, I'm asking at the end to add the 40% combo on the combo section of the thread too because it's lacking a B2 starter on the mid-screen meterburn section and for the sake of documentation that's a fact.

 

[zee]

@Lokheit Not an issue, your posts were knowledgeable and taken in stride. That b2-starter combo's situational application is apparent and it isn't just an execution exercise. I tagged you guys for fun in the last post.

@Gilbagz Good one, man. I've been practicing that a bit. It looks like you need to have a very good feel for how far to walk ahead before the b2 for the rest of the combo to connect; that seems to be the trickiest part.

 

[Durango]

B12 is an incredibly good starter. It's the 21/22 (MK9) of this game. Sure, it can't go low or overhead, but what can you do with it? It's -6 on block. Because I'm not sure I'm going to hit confirm it, I use it as a frametrap. Let them block it first, then go for D3, D4, B2, B33, or F33 right after. That will condition them to stay there, and then I can use EX Hammer or Slide if they are still blocking.

 

[Durango]

I'm having some serious Sub-Zero concerns right now.

1) Cryomancer can't build meter for jack. By the time you get 1 bar, the enemy has 3.
2) What exactly do you do after Cold Blooded? Is it practical to have both you and your opponent wind up in neutral? Sometimes they can take the advantage for themselves or escape your corner combos.

I feel that unless I nail a solid B2 on someone, I'm screwed. I faced a nasty Kung Jin player and he had me by the balls. ALL of his moves out-poke Sub-Zero's. He completely disrespects D3, D4, and B3.

 

[Durango]

What do you guys know about frametraps?

 

[Gilbagz]

What do you guys know about frametraps?

Block armour or backdash

 

[Durango]

Block armour or backdash

Meant for offense.

 

[Durango]

Jesus. Grandmaster Sub's JI1 completely makes Cryomancer's D2 100% useless. He punches so fucking deep it literally takes out your uppercut as a valid option.

 

[Gilbagz]

Meant for offense.

Oh right, sub-zero doesnt really have any due to the lack of plus frames
Best he has is off a d4 on hit
Based on spacing you can run up d4 for again which will catch everything or if you're closer you can check them with f4,2 and confirm into whatever

There are also gimmicky things you can do by staggering strings with b1,2 and f1,2,2
Once you get people to respect b1,2 you can do b1 wait then what ever string but there is a gap which is punishable if they make the read
f1,2 is zero on block so you can pressure after it as well
but you need to make people respect the f1,2,2 first
The issue is f1,2,2 is -9 and therefore is punishable
You can make the final 2 safer by cancelling into a special but its match up dependant
Frame trap would work much better if the f1,2,2, was -6 or -7 instead but in its current state its the best 'frame trap' we have
Your best normals for frame trapping are generally low pokes (d3 to be specific) to get frame advantage or f3,3 which is your fastest mid . You can also use 1,1 if you expect them to press buttons standing, but again its all reads based.

Cryomancer does have gimmicky frame traps, but he's best played as a footsie character. A lesser but safer kotal khan.

With a few changes he could play pressure, but right now is pressure is based on conditioning. Like some of you guys have mentioned he has no real way of building meter outside of throwing ice balls in the neutral, he can't maintain pressure so he doesnt build meter like that. He relies on meter for his high damage footsies, but he has no way of building that meter. Right now the only changes i'd like to see are
- f1,2,2 made -6 or -7
- f4,2,1+3 made more plus on hit OR we can choose to knockdown using by adding an input (someone else suggested making the ender a special, and this would be useful since we could more easily reverse positions)
- f1 is given 12f start up instead of 15f. in its current state it can only be used off a jump in, and even then it can be armoured out of based on height.
- d1 is 7f because right now there is no reason to use this button over d3 or d4 since they all start at 9f
- normal hammer has faster start up to block string off of f4 and is made to be -8/-9. OR is made plus on block and the start up stays the same. Right now this special is completely useless. I only use it to build meter.
- air hammer is -4 instead of -7. Really is only used to break armour right now, and even then if they block its punishable. It's already punishable if they delay wake up. It shouldnt be punishable on normal block as well. or maybe instead air hammer has less recovery on whiff and it keep its current frames, this way it could be used a semi reliable means of building meter.
- wishful thinking but d2 is given 11f start up instead of 13f. doesnt have to happen, but holy crap you have to be sitting there waiting for the jump to anti air with this. Most characters have a 7-9f anti air, sub-zeros is almost double that.

 

[IIINCORRUPTIBLE]

Havent given these guides a FULL proof read so there will be some errors until I can edit it tomorrow.


This is a free sample of a HUGE project that REO and I are working on. We are releasing a living guide in about a week. Not only will it be updates but it is also interactive. You can submit questions via the app and we will answer them. It goes up on amazon in a little over a week.

Don't forget to follow us on twitch at www.twitch.tv/MKTomBrady_vs_MKREO

I actually bought both of your guides for MK9 and they're what got me into fighting games competitively. The Boot Kamp was good for new players.

 

[Durango]

At this point, I concede that Grandmaster is the superior style. Sub-Zero lacks the tools for solid overheads and lows the way other characters (Sonya, Scorpion) do. He's not meant for rushdown, and Cryomancer makes it feel that way. But Cryomancer has three major problems:

1) Cold Blooded puts you and the opponent in neutral. It's not like his B12 from MK9 that puts them in a reset position. More often than not, they can escape the corner or counterattack you. What's the point?
2) EX Hammer does not go fast enough. It's a simple matter of low-blocking B33, then fuzzy-guarding low into a standing block. You'll block a potential slide and the EX Hammer in the same animation.
3) Building meter simply does not happen. You need to conserve as much of it as possible for Breakers.

What does Cryomancer give you? An additional overhead and better damage building tools. I don't see how the blockstrings are any better with F122 or 111. But you're building damage only if you manage to hit in the first place, which applies to Grandmaster combos as well. But the knockdowns are more practical for corner traps, which Sub-Zero is meant for since his corner game is far superior to his midscreen game. What does that leave you with? Cold Blooded into very few options, to include D2 (Uppercut). Today, I played a Grandmaster Sub-Zero who made the attack completely useless. Anyone with a deep jump-in punch (Sub-Zero JI1) renders it a useless anti-air. It's not even the fastest, which is more important than its range. At high level play, that uppercut won't do much good.

I'm practicing up the combos now. My main problem with Grandmaster is building damage, midscreen and corner. I've checked the combo guide and I feel like I'm finally making some progress. I won't get the nice 34%-38% damage on average like I did before, but the Ice Clone provides Sub-Zero with viable OPTIONS. Cold Blooded is the only thing I will really miss since the Hammer had some issues, and your meter was sorely lacking. Your options are better with Grandmaster's Ice Clone and you can apply far more pressure.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Is f12 still plus frames on block?

 

[Gilbagz]

Is f12 still plus frames on block?

Its zero but there is natural delay before the final 2, letting you stagger the string.