Guide - Cryomancer Sub-Zero CRYOMANCER Guide

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Its zero but there is natural delay before the final 2, letting you stagger the string.

yeah... so if you want to build meter with him... this is the string you need to go to.

I dont' know easy it is to confirm into the 2nd 2 and launch... but any type of block string that is 0 allows you to condition people to block, and since SZ's d3 is so plus on block, doing f12 into d3 lets him setup 50/50 on hit and stay safe on block.

 

[JDE]

Why don't more people use this variation? I think it's really great. I even considered maining him to play this variation (others too).

 

[mrtom]

Not sure if this has already been posted but I just discovered a nice hit-confirm mid-screen/corner combo:

f122, b12 xx db2(ex), f42 1+3 (35%)

Delay the b12 a little or you go under and get a ice ball instead of hammer.

 

[JDE]

Is there a combo thread for this?

 

[Israfel]

@Tom Brady This is one of the most clear and concise character breakdowns I've ever seen. Good work sir, good work.

 

[djbenjaminjay]

I've noticed many people unsure/complaining about the F4,2,1+3 combo being a standing reset w/no frame adv.
This may seem like an oversight, but the second hit is special cancellable, so you can mix up with slide or hammer.
It also has great corner carry. Corner reset means you are still in their face applying pressure.
In my experience, resets are something you apply In a pressure string, not every single time it's available. It's one more way to confuse the person.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Aside from the Hammer, the only reason to be using Cryomancer is to be ending strings in F421+3. Sacrificing significant damage for more wall carry is pointless, you are just going to get them to the corner and then end other strings in F421+3 anyway. If you can't deal with having to play the neutral game at the end of every string, you should probably use Grandmaster.

 

[JDE]

I thought this variation was the most damaging one?

 

[PaletteSwap]

I thought this variation was the most damaging one?

As far as I'm aware it is, midscreen that is. The main reason I love Cryomancer is the high, low, overhead mixup (f3, 3, enhanced db2).

f4, 2, 1+3 leaving the opponent standing is nice too. Problem with Cryo is meter. It's harder to build in this variation than the other 2 and you pretty much have to spend meter to notice a drastic damage difference mid screen.

I love all 3 of his variations, but Cryomancer has the least utility for sure. Still, it's the most fun to play IMO.

 

[Qwark28]

Some cryomancer footage. I start playing at 2:19:40

I don't play any grandmaster in these casuals.

http://www.twitch.tv/zaelock/b/666816560

 

[Hini]

Some cryomancer footage. I start playing at 2:19:40

I don't play any grandmaster in these casuals.

http://www.twitch.tv/zaelock/b/666816560

Cool shit

 

[Qwark28]

Worth noting that I haven't played sub in a month, had forgotten a lot of setups and punishes.

 

[djbenjaminjay]

Aside from the Hammer, the only reason to be using Cryomancer is to be ending strings in F421+3. Sacrificing significant damage for more wall carry is pointless, you are just going to get them to the corner and then end other strings in F421+3 anyway. If you can't deal with having to play the neutral game at the end of every string, you should probably use Grandmaster.

Corner carry isn't pointless at all. The F421+3 ender is just that, an ender. If you just reset them mid screen, you are at no significant advantage. I was stating that F421+3 has great corner carry in itself, not just special cancelled. Getting a reset in the corner IS the point for this string aside from obvious damage.

 

[mrtom]

I usually prefer corner carry to damage for most matchups. F421+3 in the corner is significantly stronger than midscreen since b33, f33, b2, whatever won't whiff vs midscreen they can backdash or walk back. The main reason I like the corner is combos are way easier, no need to run cancel makes life so much better online.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I usually prefer corner carry to damage for most matchups. F421+3 in the corner is significantly stronger than midscreen since b33, f33, b2, whatever won't whiff vs midscreen they can backdash or walk back. The main reason I like the corner is combos are way easier, no need to run cancel makes life so much better online.

Corner carry isn't pointless at all. The F421+3 ender is just that, an ender. If you just reset them mid screen, you are at no significant advantage. I was stating that F421+3 has great corner carry in itself, not just special cancelled. Getting a reset in the corner IS the point for this string aside from obvious damage.

Why? You don't do significantly more damage in the corner than you do Midscreen with this variation, you have no real way to jail them like Cryo and GM both do, and the ender leaves them standing, with no advantage...

I'm not saying the corner is pointless, it helps, but you'll be doing up to 11% damage less Midscreen per successful string, just to get them to the corner slightly faster, where meterless you do literally 3% less than GM can get per B2 starter, and like 2% more off a low starter. except GM has an untechable knockdown at the end of strings thanks to slide, the option to trade just a little bit off damage for Hard knockdown, and the ability to put up Ice Clones, all 3 excellent things that Cryomancer does not have, and that's not even mentioning shatter combos. The point of Cromancer sacrificing Clones, is that he can out out GM-corner like damage, anywhere on the screen. You want to abuse this as much as you can on every connect.

So my question is, why would you be using Cryomancer if you are just going to end strings with Grandmaster ender, do Grandmaster damage, have less opportunities to apply these strings than Grandmaster, and then get them to the corner where you do Grandmaster damage as well except with absolutely no jail?

Sorry, but this is just a shitty way of playing Cryomancer. It's been said, quite accurately, more than once in this thread that Cryo cares the least about getting them there out of all 3 variations, his damage rises much less than any other variation does, and he has the hardest time keeping them in the corner out of any vaviation of Sub Zero and to be honest, practically any character in the game with a 50/50, considering the standing reset, and the nature of his armour.

There is already less reasons to pick Cryo over GM, but one of the BEST reasons he has, is that while he gets less opportunity to punish, 421+3 means he needs less combo connects to win a round, and that he can take them anywhere on the screen. Ending Cryomancer strings with 123 Slide is just... not good play, 99 times out of 100.

Inb4 the reason you are picking Cryomancer is because online lag, well then sure, I guess you can play him as GM light, but the variation still suffers immensely if you aren't taking those incredible damage buffs Midscreen that he has on other variations. And at the end of the day, that's just an execution problem and doesn't change how this is the wrong way to play Cryo Sub legitimately. If you are going to play Cryo, honestly... Just learn the fucking neutral game lol instead of fighting to avoid it and taking ways around using his footsies and his reset strings to push the to corner, it's a key part of his gameplay and you DO need to end his strings in the reset to capitalise on the variations strengths, otherwise honestly go play Unbreakable or GM lol

 

[djbenjaminjay]

you DO need to end his strings in the reset to capitalise on the variations strengths, otherwise honestly go play Unbreakable or GM lol

Thanks for the novel. Again, I never said not to use F421+3. I was merely stating possibilities for the people complaining about getting mid screen resets with no frame adv. But please, explain the "strengths" that make a mid screen reset better than a corner reset beyond the damage increase. Spending precious meter on Ex hammer armor when they counter attack after the reset?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Thanks for the novel. Again, I never said not to use F421+3. I was merely stating possibilities for the people complaining about getting mid screen resets with no frame adv. But please, explain the "strengths" that make a mid screen reset better than a corner reset beyond the damage increase. Spending precious meter on Ex hammer armor when they counter attack after the reset?

Wow get mad dude. The "novel" explains how wrong you are, in a shitload of different ways, not just to people like yourself who lack the attention span to read it, but to other people who do care about understanding the variation who may have read the misinformation you are spreading, hence the in depth explanation instead of just saying "no, you're wrong" and not explaining why. This is the internet, a text forum, words are common, apparently comprehension is not

I was merely stating possibilities for the people complaining about getting mid screen resets with no frame adv.

Let's be realistic here, and cut the back-pedalling, you weren't just "merely offering a helpful alternative for other people struggling", you were saying it's something you consistently make a part of your gameplan and gave shortsighted reasoning as to why, hence why you've gotten overly defensive when I said otherwise, there is no misinterpreting your previous 2 posts in the thread. Regardless, the sensible options if you dislike the reset are to wait and hope for NRS to change it, learn the neutral game, or play a different variation. Turning him into a subpar version of Grandmaster by sacrificing all his Midscreen power just to avoid the neutral reset, means this variation is the wrong one for you, no two ways about it. The whole point to playing this character over other variations is the high damage grab string that you want to take every opportunity to use.

But please, explain the "strengths" that make a mid screen reset better than a corner reset beyond the damage increase.

Nothing? That's the point... It's the same situation Midscreen as it is the corner, why are you throwing away LARGE amounts of midscreen damage just to push em to the corner to hope to do the exact same thing...

Spending precious meter on Ex hammer armor when they counter attack after the reset?

I don't understand. How on earth is this your argument that you should be giving up damage to try keep them in the corner... With that sort of gameplan, you NEED to be using the hammer and more meter options to be doing exactly this... Playing the neutral game a bit more means the exact opposite.

 

[Qwark28]

Wow get mad dude. The "novel" explains how wrong you are, in a shitload of different ways, not just to people like yourself who lack the attention span to read it, but to other people who do care about understanding the variation who may have read the misinformation you are spreading, hence the in depth explanation instead of just saying "no, you're wrong" and not explaining why. This is the internet, a text forum, words are common, apparently comprehension is not

He wasn't being aggressive or mad towards you.

This variation is focused on damage, you have a lot of it after f4213 and you should take it. Wallcarry can be achieved in a lot of ways, one of which is them retreating. You're blessed with a true 50-50 that can go upwards of 40% with one bar, a great d4 that guarantees a run standing 1 from anywhere but max range, tick throw setups and a good armoured move.

The corner is useless for this variation if he can't land a f4213 and has at least a bar of meter. F4 Hammer being a true blockstring would really help.

 

[mrtom]

Why? You don't do significantly more damage in the corner than you do Midscreen with this variation, you have no real way to jail them like Cryo and GM both do, and the ender leaves them standing, with no advantage...

I'm not saying the corner is pointless, it helps, but you'll be doing up to 11% damage less Midscreen per successful string, just to get them to the corner slightly faster, where meterless you do literally 3% less than GM can get per B2 starter, and like 2% more off a low starter. except GM has an untechable knockdown at the end of strings thanks to slide, the option to trade just a little bit off damage for Hard knockdown, and the ability to put up Ice Clones, all 3 excellent things that Cryomancer does not have, and that's not even mentioning shatter combos. The point of Cromancer sacrificing Clones, is that he can out out GM-corner like damage, anywhere on the screen. You want to abuse this as much as you can on every connect.

So my question is, why would you be using Cryomancer if you are just going to end strings with Grandmaster ender, do Grandmaster damage, have less opportunities to apply these strings than Grandmaster, and then get them to the corner where you do Grandmaster damage as well except with absolutely no jail?

Sorry, but this is just a shitty way of playing Cryomancer. It's been said, quite accurately, more than once in this thread that Cryo cares the least about getting them there out of all 3 variations, his damage rises much less than any other variation does, and he has the hardest time keeping them in the corner out of any vaviation of Sub Zero and to be honest, practically any character in the game with a 50/50, considering the standing reset, and the nature of his armour.

There is already less reasons to pick Cryo over GM, but one of the BEST reasons he has, is that while he gets less opportunity to punish, 421+3 means he needs less combo connects to win a round, and that he can take them anywhere on the screen. Ending Cryomancer strings with 123 Slide is just... not good play, 99 times out of 100.

Inb4 the reason you are picking Cryomancer is because online lag, well then sure, I guess you can play him as GM light, but the variation still suffers immensely if you aren't taking those incredible damage buffs Midscreen that he has on other variations. And at the end of the day, that's just an execution problem and doesn't change how this is the wrong way to play Cryo Sub legitimately. If you are going to play Cryo, honestly... Just learn the fucking neutral game lol instead of fighting to avoid it and taking ways around using his footsies and his reset strings to push the to corner, it's a key part of his gameplay and you DO need to end his strings in the reset to capitalise on the variations strengths, otherwise honestly go play Unbreakable or GM lol

You got issues man. Where did I say I pick cryo because of lag? I said the corner makes the combos much easier online than midscreen because you don't have to worry about run cancels which are annoying online.

You have no clue why i choose cryo, how I play cryo nor my skill level. My comment was simply about the corner and you went and assumed I avoid neutral or don't understand the neutral game when I never made any mention of it. I also said I prefer it in SOME matchups. If I land a juggle I'm going to end with a f421+3 regardless of position.

By your logic, every combo must end in f421+3 or you're not using cryo right. Insanity...

 

[I GOT HANDS]

You got issues man. Where did I say I pick cryo because of lag? I said the corner makes the combos much easier online than midscreen because you don't have to worry about run cancels which are annoying online.

You have no clue why i choose cryo, how I play cryo nor my skill level. My comment was simply about the corner and you went and assumed I avoid neutral or don't understand the neutral game when I never made any mention of it. I also said I prefer it in SOME matchups. If I land a juggle I'm going to end with a f421+3 regardless of position.

By your logic, every combo must end in f421+3 or you're not using cryo right. Insanity...

Didn't once say you picked Cryo cause of lag. That part wasn't directed to you or even to anyone, it's just a common response to the question "why are you playing Cryo instead of GM" hence why I said "inb4" as it hadn't been said yet, but in case anyone did try to use this as a fallback, it was already covered

I didn't make any assumptions about your skill level. I didn't make any statements about your skill level. I made statements about Cryomancer, and responded to your comments on it. You might be incredibly skilled with godlike mechanics for all I know, I wouldn't even care as it wouldn't change a single thing, i'd still think you were very wrong, and I'd still make a post explaining why. You said you mostly prefer wall carry to the Cry specific ender, which, quite honestly, means you are playing the wrong variation, or playing this variation wrong. Grandmaster gets the same damage out of every single wall carry string and MUCH more out of the wall carry, Cryos niche is that he doesn't have to rely on the really low damage the other two variations get from strings. Choosing to forgo his main selling point till you get them in the corner, is what I call "insanity", especially when the corner increases your strings by just a couple of % of damage. The corner is good to take when you can get it, but you just play like other characters who don't have insane wallcarry, and use the neutral game / decent wallcarry strings that you DO have to push them there, you don't sacrifice the main benefit of picking the variation to do it lol. There is niche situations where you might not want to end with Cold Blooded, but the other 99 out of 100 times it's gonna be a silly decision.

 

[mrtom]

Didn't once say you picked Cryo cause of lag. That part wasn't directed to you or even to anyone, it's just a common response to the question "why are you playing Cryo instead of GM" hence why I said "inb4" as it hadn't been said yet, but in case anyone did try to use this as a fallback, it was already covered

I didn't make any assumptions about your skill level. I didn't make any statements about your skill level. I made statements about Cryomancer, and responded to your comments on it. You might be incredibly skilled with godlike mechanics for all I know, I wouldn't even care as it wouldn't change a single thing, i'd still think you were very wrong, and I'd still make a post explaining why. You said you mostly prefer wall carry to the Cry specific ender, which, quite honestly, means you are playing the wrong variation, or playing this variation wrong. Grandmaster gets the same damage out of every single wall carry string and MUCH more out of the wall carry, Cryos niche is that he doesn't have to rely on the really low damage the other two variations get from strings. Choosing to forgo his main selling point till you get them in the corner, is what I call "insanity", especially when the corner increases your strings by just a couple of % of damage. The corner is good to take when you can get it, but you just play like other characters who don't have insane wallcarry, and use the neutral game / decent wallcarry strings that you DO have to push them there, you don't sacrifice the main benefit of picking the variation to do it lol. There is niche situations where you might not want to end with Cold Blooded, but the other 99 out of 100 times it's gonna be a silly decision.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. If you get a juggle then finish with f421+3, it's a waste to finish with anything else but not all his strings juggle. If I land a b33 or b12 I might not want to use meter on mb hammer cancel so I'll end with slide. His meter building is awful and burning a bar just to get the juggle isn't always the best strategy. Some matchups, like Quan Chi, are way easier if he's cornered so I'll gladly sacrifice a little damage to get him there but vs characters that have good escape options I'll go for damage every time.

 

[djbenjaminjay]

Let's be realistic here, and cut the back-pedalling, you weren't just "merely offering a helpful alternative for other people struggling", you were saying it's something you consistently make a part of your gameplan and gave shortsighted reasoning as to why

Seriously? You are really reaching here. I was merely trying to see the bright side of the standing reset. But it's cool breh, you can have this thread because you are clearly the authority on this arguably inferior variation.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Seriously? You are really reaching here. I was merely trying to see the bright side of the standing reset. But it's cool breh, you can have this thread because you are clearly the authority on this arguably inferior variation.

You say that like it's just me who feels this way, and not every single competent Cryomancer player. I'm explaining the point of view, and supporting it with logic and facts, you are responding with neither, just getting all defensive and throwin jabs

Also, what you are saying you are saying ain't what you were saying at all, quit back-pedalling and either listen to logic, put up some counter reasoning, or just stop propogating misinformation

 

[RM Ree]

I'd really like to see Cryomancer gain the ability to hold and cancel ice ball in future updates.

 

[Houndovhell]

I'd really like to see Cryomancer gain the ability to hold and cancel ice ball in future updates.

OMFG. NRS!! I WANT MY ICE BALL CANCELS RIGHT NAO