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Match-up Discussion Reptile Matchup Discussion Thread

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
As for Sheeva, she gets completely shut down man. Her armor is really her only savior in this MU, and it can be baited pretty easily. She can't hit him with telestomp because he can dash on reaction and get a free fb after. Once he gets the knockdown that bitch is in the blender.
all right I won't argue about sheeva. all i'm going to say is people might not be playing the best sheevas

Smoke- Reptile has no reason to be afraid of smoke bombs because of elbow dash, so he doesn't feel threatened at full screen ever, however Smoke isn't scared of anything Reptile does either. Anywhere from sweep to jump range the match is in Reptile's favor because Smoke has to play very cautiously here. His normals don't reach as far as Reptile's and he has to worry about dash. Up close it's in Smoke's favor, just better tools at his disposal here.
I wouldn't say within sweep range Reptile wins. Smoke's normals are REALLY good and reach really far. B2 can bring the game into neutral (which is bad for Rep) at close rage, and smoke bomb can whiff punish d4s if you use them too much. His d3 is also really good, so he can just dash d3 and try to outpoke your d4.

Sektor- I used to say 4-6 to this MU all the time, I have found that using meter for ex fb's in this MU is useful as hell. Do it on knockdown, on reaction to missiles, and I'm pretty sure if you charge them they hit Sektor out of teleuppercuts. Sektor's footsies are slightly better so Reptile can hang but has to play smarter. Sektor on wake up is overrated, get the knockdown and just make sure he doesn't get the chance to do anything. After a while he won't even try and it opens up your oki options.
If they can do IATUs on reaction, they can still hit you out of charging an EN Forceball. And remember he gets 40% for a bar/31% meterless for you trying to do that.

As far as his wakeup, you can't just say "bait wakeups" because you could say that for any character. EN IATU is also not very punishable (Reptile can Elbow Dash but it's very tight timing and very risky) and becuase of his slow normals, he doesn't always get free pressure off of it (-7 + 6 frame jab = ties with your 13 frame standing 3, plus he has enough frames to duck and avoid a standing 1/2, or he could jump away from d4 and probably many other options.)

Also remember that one en teleport cancels out a lot of EN Forceball setups, because it puts him on the other side, so you effectively just trade meter.

Noob- Yeah good noob players don't complain about Reptile I promise you hahaha. Reptile can't zone without eating something, whether it be teleport or clones.
I think I changed this one idk who even counts as a good noob player, haha.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
I think Krayzie has drove you nuts with how often you play him... >_>
It's not just Krayzie, it's every damn Cyrax. Reptile always has to play off of reads, and all of his risk reward is HUGELY out of his favor against Cyrax. Not to mention i just don't see a single spot on the screen where Reptile wins at all.

Kano is 6-4 at the absolute worst.
I feel like Kano's tools can deal with all of Reptile's. He can throw lots of daggers and play footsies with him etc. I would like to know why you think Rep wins here.

Jade is also a 7-3. Reptile abuses a lot of her shortcomings pretty bad...flash barely cuts it half the time because of SFB, and dash whiffing shuts off anything advancing.
Yeah but glow is totally free and can work, at the very least it allows her to dash past a SFB. Also her inside normals like d3, d4, 12, are good enough to be really annoying for Reptile who can't do much against it but dash. Lastly EN Glow is still safe armor, which can fight back against a lot of Reptile pressure.

You already know how I feel about Freddy.
I don't.

I also don't think Sektor and Smoke beat Reptile. Smoke can't stay away from Reptile, period. He has no real answer to d4 xx acid hand on block, also has weak answers to EX dash, and Reptile has one of the most reliable smoke bomb punishes. Sektor has good footsies, but he doesn't hold an advantage there. As Joker said, Sektor's wakeup is so bad, random dashes to check footsies play fucks with Sektor so bad, because he doesn't want to be knocked down at all.
For Smoke, see what i said to Joker. And he can still do d3 to escape EN Dash, which is about as much as normal people can. I wouldn't call that a disadvantage. Also what character has any special way to deal with d4 xx Acid Hand on block? It only does like 2.3% chip so it isn't THAT threatening.

For Sektor, random dashes are SUPER scary. Sektor punishes Reptile dash SO hard. He deals 40% meterless off 12b1 and considerably more with meter. Also a lot of his footsie moves like b2 and b1 have hitboxes that can catch you out of dash. If he saves his meter his wakeup game isn't bad at all.

Dab and I talked about Jax before. We think it's 6-4. There's no reason not to be risky vs Jax midscreen. You can literally dash to stop Jax's pressure and if he doesn't have you cornered, there's zero reason to even be afraid. Meanwhile, Reptile handles ground pound better than a lot of characters, and forces Jax into using EX elbow to stop Reptile's wakeup offense. Jax is really only better when he puts the pressure on or has him cornered, but everywhere else, Reptile is fine, and arguably does better.
I've played this match probably a thousand hundred bajillion times with Tyrant. He says 5/5 not just from his experience with me but with other Reptiles. Just sitting and waiting for his F4 chain and punishing doesn't work as well as it used to, there are more than enough ways to get around that now.

And Reptile can't do ANYTHING from mid range once Jax has meter, because he can block the dash, and react to everything else with EN Dash Punch. What Joker later said about the GP setups with Reptile is definitely true too.

From fullscreen, remember, his projectiles by themselves are really good, and if he wants he can instead just dash up and position himself into EN Dash Punch range.

I think 16 Bit is the only Kitana that truly acknowledges what Reptile takes away from her. Also, Reptile DOESN'T have to deal with crossup JK fan. He actually has some of the easiest time dealing with characters who can JK xx air projectile.
Just crossup JK xx Fan isn't necessarily why I think it's even. A lot of kits now like Khaotik, Konqrr and Guamo are agreeing that it's even now too.

Also, Reptile seriously fucks with Bird Lao...and has so many dumb things that makes it extremely difficult for Lao to actually hit him at times.
IDK most are pretty easy to get around for Lao. That matchup is really bad, Pboard says it's one of his favorite matchups.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i hardly see how reptile loses to kano....just can't see it, 5-5.

and how is reptile supposed to play vs sektor?
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I use my meter vs Smoke.
He can't really shake the exSFB very well, or from what i've used of it.
He can teleport punch the shit out of it on reaction if you charge it though.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
I'm curious.... has anyone toyed with holding crossup after inputting exDash? So even if you get d3'd out of the dash.... you're airborne? Most d3's are not huge + frames on stand hit.... and most people will dial in strings.
IDK .... just something to think about.
 

Death

Noob
I actually think he does better vs stryker and baraka than sheeva, sheeva can be really scary in the right hands... nooby from utah was actually beating my reptile with sheeva at scr =[

I could see the other ones being 7-3 though

Smoke: Although I can see Reptile being able to sort of negate the smoke bomb game, smoke can also negate Rep's zoning game, which means it becomes a close up/footsies battle, which I really think Smoke wins because of his normals. He also has a potentially HUGE punish for Elbow Dash.

Sektor: A good Sektor completely shuts down Rep zoning with instant air teleports since Rep's forceballs and spit have such long recovery. Once he does that he controls the full screen game, and his significantly faster normals make him strong up close.

Mileena: I feel like she just has a slight edge in a fullscreen zoning game (safer fireballs and teleports on reaction) plus it's slightly easier for her to get the life lead back if she loses it. Also the lack of good punishes for the EN Teleport is a HUGE bitch.

Noob: Maybe 5-5, they were complaining about it a LOT on the Noob forums though (in Riu's new thread) so idk I just put 6-4.

Kenshi: Yeah theoretically I really think it's 4-6 too, I'll probably just change it to that. I was just worried that I didn't have enough experience, but I have it from both sides and I feel the same way in both places.

so new one would be:

7-3

Baraka: 7-3
Stryker: 7-3


6-4

Cyber Sub: 6-4
Ermac: 6-4
Jade: 6-4
Raiden: 6-4
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 6-4


5-5

Jax: 5-5
Kano: 5-5
Kitana: 5-5
Nightwolf: 5-5
Noob: 5-5
Quan Chi: 5-5
Rain: 5-5
Scorpion: 5-5
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Sub Zero: 5-5

4-6

Cage: 4-6
Freddy: 4-6
Kabal: 4-6
Kenshi: 4-6
Liu Kang: 4-6
Mileena: 4-6
Sektor: 4-6
Skarlet: 4-6
Smoke: 4-6

Just give up

Cyrax: 3-7
Kung Lao: 3-7
Sonya: 3-7


I am definitely willing to change any of the other ones, just wanna discuss them more.
Kano Reptile 5-5 lol. Chef pls
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Kano Reptile 5-5 lol. Chef pls
For some reason a bunch of people play Kano a lot in SoCal...

Honestly I haven't lost to a Kano with him since he got nerfed, but I really feel like if someone dedicated themselves to maining Kano, it would be a 5-5 at the highest level.
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
all right I won't argue about sheeva. all i'm going to say is people might not be playing the best sheevas



I wouldn't say within sweep range Reptile wins. Smoke's normals are REALLY good and reach really far. B2 can bring the game into neutral (which is bad for Rep) at close rage, and smoke bomb can whiff punish d4s if you use them too much. His d3 is also really good, so he can just dash d3 and try to outpoke your d4.



If they can do IATUs on reaction, they can still hit you out of charging an EN Forceball. And remember he gets 40% for a bar/31% meterless for you trying to do that.

As far as his wakeup, you can't just say "bait wakeups" because you could say that for any character. EN IATU is also not very punishable (Reptile can Elbow Dash but it's very tight timing and very risky) and becuase of his slow normals, he doesn't always get free pressure off of it (-7 + 6 frame jab = ties with your 13 frame standing 3, plus he has enough frames to duck and avoid a standing 1/2, or he could jump away from d4 and probably many other options.)

Also remember that one en teleport cancels out a lot of EN Forceball setups, because it puts him on the other side, so you effectively just trade meter.



I think I changed this one idk who even counts as a good noob player, haha.
ok I probably shouldn't have said bait wake ups because it's not what I meant. All you have to do is forceball setups and be patient when going in and his wakeup game becomes useless. Other than that there isn't any reason to use fb's in this Mu, just be patient and the MU is even.

Smoke's b2 is great, but it doesn't reach as far as f2 or dash.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
i hardly see how reptile loses to kano....just can't see it, 5-5.

and how is reptile supposed to play vs sektor?
What exactly is Kano doing that is advantageous? Knives to zone...? Ducking one then dashing if outside of whiff range = duckdash, and if not, Reptile can do spit trades. Kano's normals are NOWHERE near Reptile's aside from his d1 and d3, and that is saying a lot. And Kano is one of those characters who has nothing to deal with forceball oki, so footsies are risky as it is. Blah answers to EX dash as well. Kano is fortunate enough to be capable of punishing dash for something meterless, unlike a lot of the top tiers. Also, some stuff that I wanna test could potentially make knives in footsies really risky.

Sektor struggles in the same way Kano does...he struggles vs Reptile when he gets knocked down, and because he's footsies-based, dash doesn't make life easy for him at all. BUT, Sektor can make using projectiles risky. And Reptile's buttons vs Sektor's aren't really that bad.

Chef, why the hell do I give a shit about EX dash punch from Jax??? I don't. I'm more afraid of a GP to deal with my zoning than I am an EX dash punch...spending the meter does me a favor for the most part. Most Reptiles don't even abuse what Jax sucks at doing to Reptile, and that is making Reptile afraid of using his more risky options.

And being able to d3 Reptile out of EX dash isn't special, at all. 1% and some frame advantage that Smoke can BARELY abuse without using another d3 or d1. Doing that shit to Kabal, Kitana, Cage, Liu Kang, Mileena, Raiden, Kung Lao, etc, hurts. Even Sheeva and Jade have it better here.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
ok I probably shouldn't have said bait wake ups because it's not what I meant. All you have to do is forceball setups and be patient when going in and his wakeup game becomes useless. Other than that there isn't any reason to use fb's in this Mu, just be patient and the MU is even.

Smoke's b2 is great, but it doesn't reach as far as f2 or dash.
Yeah but F2 into anything is interruptable, it's easy peasy for him to whiff punish, and dash is obviously punishable.

He can B2, dash d3, or on a read throw out a mid range smoke bomb (should be safe on block from that distance and the risk/reward between smoke bomb and dash on a read is pretty skewed.)

And yeah there's no reason for Smoke to wait and shake forceballs; his teleport is the fastest hitting teleport in the entire game and leaves him at advantage. ZERO need to respect Reptile's zoning by letting him cancel his forceballs or do charged slow ones etc.
 
Alright I truly believe in this matchup chart. Totally willing to discuss why I think any matchup is what it is.

6-4

Baraka: 6-4
Cyber Sub: 6-4
Ermac: 6-4
Jade: 6-4
Noob: 6-4
Raiden: 6-4
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 6-4
Stryker: 6-4

5-5

Jax: 5-5
Kano: 5-5
Kenshi: 5-5
Kitana: 5-5
Nightwolf: 5-5
Quan Chi: 5-5
Rain: 5-5
Scorpion: 5-5
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Sub Zero: 5-5

4-6

Cage: 4-6
Freddy: 4-6
Kabal: 4-6
Liu Kang: 4-6
Mileena: 4-6
Sektor: 4-6
Skarlet: 4-6
Smoke: 4-6

Just give up

Cyrax: 3-7
Kung Lao: 3-7
Sonya: 3-7


not gonna make my own thread for it

lemme know what you think
Cage, kabal, mileena, and li kang are the only 4-6's I agree on, rest feel even. And he may beat smoke...call me crazy.

I think.he bests jax, Kano, nightwolf, quan, rain, scorp, and shang.

#real talk
 
Honestly I don't see how he doesn't beat jax. He beats him.in damage, except corner. F4 string doesn't work. As thtb said ex dash punch is not a big deal. Reptiles d4 is good in this match. Really just keep out of the corner.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Cage, kabal, mileena, and li kang are the only 4-6's I agree on, rest feel even. And he may beat smoke...call me crazy.

I think.he bests jax, Kano, nightwolf, quan, rain, scorp, and shang.

#real talk
Rain I don't believe so, for the simple fact that Rain's 4 deals with a lot of things Reptile has. It can outspeed d4 and go over it at the same time, it avoids dash, punishes dash for 40+%, beats out a number of his normals, etc. Zoning him isn't free, either, due to lightning and teleport (as ass as it is, it's still viable).
 
Rain I don't believe so, for the simple fact that Rain's 4 deals with a lot of things Reptile has. It can outspeed d4 and go over it at the same time, it avoids dash, punishes dash for 40+%, beats out a number of his normals, etc. Zoning him isn't free, either, due to lightning and teleport (as ass as it is, it's still viable).
I see what you are saying but I feel the dash really screws with rain. And ex slowball ender's are great against his wake ups. The only problems o have playing rain is his armor and damage. If I read lightning I'm getting an edash into.jip combo. I've played a couple rains in tournament including @aquaman and I feel like reptile controls the pace.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I see what you are saying but I feel the dash really screws with rain. And ex slowball ender's are great against his wake ups. The only problems o have playing rain is his armor and damage. If I read lightning I'm getting an edash into.jip combo. I've played a couple rains in tournament including @aquaman and I feel like reptile controls the pace.
Yeah, Reptile can still control the pace, though he has to be wary. I think what hurts Reptile here, though, is just simply where he can fuck up.

Rain is so mid tier...arguably worse...but he's simply made viable due to his meterless damage output. >____________>
 

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
I think.he bests shang.

#real talk
You have not played enough of WoundCowboy then. He has convinced me this MU is completely even. Also, he has a couple more 4-6's. Reptile players will forever just not know how to play Mileena. The ONLY ONE I GET BEAT BY EVER IS PIG. Every other Mileena is risky ass 50/50's and gimmicks. That MU is even.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
You have not played enough of WoundCowboy then. He has convinced me this MU is completely even. Also, he has a couple more 4-6's. Reptile players will forever just not know how to play Mileena. The ONLY ONE I GET BEAT BY EVER IS PIG. Every other Mileena is risky ass 50/50's and gimmicks. That MU is even.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
Pig and SonicFox are probably the only Mileena players that would give a Reptile that knows the matchup any sort of problems.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
What exactly is Kano doing that is advantageous? Knives to zone...? Ducking one then dashing if outside of whiff range = duckdash, and if not, Reptile can do spit trades. Kano's normals are NOWHERE near Reptile's aside from his d1 and d3, and that is saying a lot. And Kano is one of those characters who has nothing to deal with forceball oki, so footsies are risky as it is. Blah answers to EX dash as well. Kano is fortunate enough to be capable of punishing dash for something meterless, unlike a lot of the top tiers. Also, some stuff that I wanna test could potentially make knives in footsies really risky.
Sektor struggles in the same way Kano does...he struggles vs Reptile when he gets knocked down, and because he's footsies-based, dash doesn't make life easy for him at all. BUT, Sektor can make using projectiles risky. And Reptile's buttons vs Sektor's aren't really that bad.
Yeah but Sektor has a considerable advantage fullscreen, sliiiiight advantage in footsies range, feels about even close up, but Sektor has the damage advantage. Also remember that Reptile has an even worse wakeup game than Sektor, and Sektor U3 4 beats every one of Reptile's wakeups (plus he has missile setups that you have to respect)

that's why I put it 6-4

Chef, why the hell do I give a shit about EX dash punch from Jax??? I don't. I'm more afraid of a GP to deal with my zoning than I am an EX dash punch...spending the meter does me a favor for the most part. Most Reptiles don't even abuse what Jax sucks at doing to Reptile, and that is making Reptile afraid of using his more risky options.
You should be afraid of EN Dash Punch because it does a lot of damage and allows him to start pressure. Both characters have good ways to shut eachother's games down on reads or reaction, and because of Reptile's bad pokes, he should generally need to Elbow Dash out, which means they are guessing for about the same amount of damage and advantage close up.

Jax definitely has options fullscreen and so does Reptile, and they both have counters to eachother's zoning as well.

Just because he can't do mid range ground pounds and F413 all day doesn't mean that the matchup is bad, because Reptile loses a lot of setups too. I don't think either char loses a whole lot more than the other.
 
You have not played enough of WoundCowboy then. He has convinced me this MU is completely even. Also, he has a couple more 4-6's. Reptile players will forever just not know how to play Mileena. The ONLY ONE I GET BEAT BY EVER IS PIG. Every other Mileena is risky ass 50/50's and gimmicks. That MU is even.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
You could be right on both accounts. But pig plays top level mileena, and he beats you so shouldn't that make it in her favor since that's what mu charts are?
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Reptile players will forever just not know how to play Mileena. The ONLY ONE I GET BEAT BY EVER IS PIG. Every other Mileena is risky ass 50/50's and gimmicks. That MU is even.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
Can you see how that's kind of a flawed logic though? You can't just say "it's even because most mileenas are risky and gimmicky but I lose to the one that isn't"

I can definitely blow up risky flying around random roll mileenas, but if they know the matchup like Pig does...
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
You should be afraid of EN Dash Punch because it does a lot of damage and allows him to start pressure.
It does like 17% lol...there is zero fear other than the pressure. It's not shutting Reptile down from ever wanting to put out a forceball. 17% is a good chunk, but that's not a very huge deterrent.

Again, Jax may have the options that punish Reptile, but these punishes suck, damage-wise. That is a BIG issue, when you factor in what these punishes are for. There's more to it than just being able to do it...damage plays a big role in it. Jax simply doesn't put any fear into Reptile for fucking up unless Reptile is in the corner.

Meanwhile, Reptile's options to punish Jax aren't so weak.