Breakthrough - Raiden Raiden - b2 overhead launcher option select - From -63 to -7 on block.

[Big Pampering]

Just tested EX spin on reversal mode... Does not punish df2 Shocker.

then its probably -6 or less.

 

[Big Pampering]

These option selects make certain lows or overheads safe, as if 50/50's weren't strong enough already...sigh

 

[cyke_out]

Option selects do Separate players, OS's are another tool discovered to give an edge while fighting. its increasing the skill gap when a player who has found an OS can safely do what the same character in another's hands cannot. playing the character at its fullest potential always separates good players from the bad. just my opinion, man.

OS's are an executional barrier that removes mind games and reads. One on hand you are rewarding the player with better execution but lessening the need for risk/reward assessment and smart play. Without OS, the better player is the one making the right moves at the right time.

Personally, I feel like removing the risk/reward and lowering the required reads in a match is not a good thing, especially when the opponent has no counter to the OS unlike SF4's crouch tech OS which has a counter.

If they can be patched out, then great. But if not or until they are, then it's wise for every competitive player to learn them.

 

[Chaosphere]

OS's are an executional barrier that removes mind games and reads. One on hand you are rewarding the player with better execution but lessening the need for risk/reward assessment and smart play. Without OS, the better player is the one making the right moves at the right time.

Personally, I feel like removing the risk/reward and lowering the required reads in a match is not a good thing, especially when the opponent has no counter to the OS unlike SF4's crouch tech OS which has a counter.

If they can be patched out, then great. But if not or until they are, then it's wise for every competitive player to learn them.

Right but maybe they didn't intend for it to be in there. Intentional is a separate issue.

 

[FlyingVe]

For what its worth the timing on this one is relatively easy. If it helps anyone the timing for the df2 input is right before the second hit of the b2 connects.

If you are playing against a character that has a reliable punish for shocker, you can OS/cancel into db1>backdash/run (which isn't perfect but it gives them something else to think about) or EX db2, which is 0 on block, and leaves you in range to enforce with f2.

 

[Barrogh]

How can this get patched out? It's a special cancel those very rarely go @Brown Cow 54

Not really. It works differently.
The thing is, cancelling b2 into shocker is your decision. For that you will get little reward on hit, little risk on block.
This tech, however, makes it so that cancelling will only happen on block, but not on hit - same input for both cases, determined by particular outcome. Thus, as long as you input OS correctly, you will always have maximum reward with minimal risk possible for b2.

 

[Pashaogonb]

Yeap... If you mean
b14, Lightning Cancel, Run, 214... Yeap it is... At least after EX df2 or NJP... (The timing is easier when the opponent is in the air before the b14)

Really thx man now i get it) now i know why i cant do it with displacer)

 

[GGA Wafflez]

juicy

 

[RexyWrecks]

I dont hve access to the game until friday but if the recent changes apply to the ex spin as well then yes it would be 7 frames and if raidens move is -7 it should be punished by the spin as a reversal.

No it wouldn't.

 

[Qwark28]

@Metzos

@Nivek koita na min kanis teties pseuties stis 7.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Nice, but obviously not recommended against characters with reversals faster than 7 frames, such as Cassie Cage's flipkick.

A bit off-topic, I know, but something I plan to incorporate into my game with Raiden's overhead is a tactic similar to when I used Scorpion in MK9. In that game, if I wasn't confident that my low-hitting f4 would hit the opponent, I'd cancel it into his takedown, leaving me safe at -4.

With Raiden, the first hit of his overhead can be cancelled into a special (as you just saw), but the special must be input with very specific timing. In my case, should I have a bar of stamina on hand I can cancel the first hit into a teleport that moves me away from the opponent (hold the direction towards your opponent while teleporting to achieve this position).

There are probably still some punishes that can negate this tactic unless I were to also meter-burn the teleport, but this would need to be done on a read as I can mix up my choice of distance when reappearing from the teleport. Pretty effective mind-game, in my opinion.

 

[Big Pampering]

No it wouldn't.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/mortal-kombat-x-correct-information-about-what-punishes-what.51167/#post-1689480

 

[Big Pampering]

Either the frame data is wrong or it can't be punished, because of pushback somehow. According to pigs data special reversals dont have to be one frame faster to punish something.

 

[Albo]

I don't get how it's an OS. Seems like it's just adjusting timings on b2 cancel into grab but the window seems the same on hit and block to cancel, so you will always get b2 grab unless I'm missing something...

 

[Iz-GOod]

I don't get how it's an OS. Seems like it's just adjusting timings on b2 cancel into grab but the window seems the same on hit and block to cancel, so you will always get b2 grab unless I'm missing something...

Same exact timing, different result depending on whether the opponent blocks or gets hit. That's an option select. Same input, different result. Check the video. Shocker doesn't come out on hit, so you can full combo.

Now, if we can find a way to do this with b3~shocker...

 

[Albo]

Same exact timing, different result depending on whether the opponent blocks or gets hit. That's an option select. Same input, different result. Check the video. Shocker doesn't come out on hit, so you can full combo.

Now, if we can find a way to do this with b3~shocker...

Shocker does come out on hit...That's why I'm confused about the video, unless he's just inputting the shocker a little later on hit but that leads to punish city if they block and you input shocker as late as your doing so on hit.

 

[nugava]

I did just register ONCE Raiden doing b2, df2. So, this is the same input since I did it only ONCE. (Are you picking up what I am putting down ?) Then, with Lao, I blocked or not... That's what came.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

Any advice on the timing, how early/late in the b2 animation to be making these inputs? Tough to gauge it by the video.

Also are there any extra inputs you can use to change the timing or results?

 

[Black Chapters]

Any advice on the timing, how early/late in the b2 animation to be making these inputs? Tough to gauge it by the video.

Also are there any extra inputs you can use to change the timing or results?

pretty much right after b2, as soon as you press it

 

[nugava]

Not too soon neither... Or else you'll get the df2 on hit too...

 

[RexyWrecks]

http://testyourmight.com/threads/mortal-kombat-x-correct-information-about-what-punishes-what.51167/#post-1689480

You need a move faster than -7 to punish.

 

[Barrogh]

Shocker does come out on hit...That's why I'm confused about the video, unless he's just inputting the shocker a little later on hit but that leads to punish city if they block and you input shocker as late as your doing so on hit.

That's why it's important to get the timing.

 

[Big Pampering]

You need a move faster than -7 to punish.

So youre saying pig and everyone else is wrong. The only reason this cant be punished by a 7 frame spin is because of the pushback or it isnt actually -7. My tempest spin punishes -5 moves and it is 5 frames. What are you even basing this on.

 

[shizzy]

So what is Raidens best combo he can do off of B2 from midscreen, anyone?

 

[Barrogh]

So what is Raidens best combo he can do off of B2 from midscreen, anyone?

Not sure is it's the best, but it is there (TG). For meterless skip the part after that first run. For non-TG skip FRC part. That said, those may be not optimal at that point.
b2, run, b14~EX-shocker, b14~FRC, 214~shocker = 47%

In the corner you can go with second b2 at the beginning instead of first run, gotta be 50+.